Nick
Administrator
Yeah I've had a bad feeling from the start
I'm sure Richardson will still be involved too and so will the council.
I also have a feeling they won't even be relegated.
Yeah I've had a bad feeling from the startAm getting a bad feeling about this. Things seem to me to point to a prepack company rescue where unsecured creditors and the employees are thoroughly screwed by the money people.
we have all seen a company structure used before but there seems to be some sort of pattern here too
- accounts for wasps holdings group filed on time
- accounts for ACL, ACL 2006, IEC not filed, all subsidiaries of wasps holdings. How do you sign the main accounts off if you cant at the same date sign off the subsidiaries. What are we not supposed to see in the subsidiary company figures? Have assets moved?
- The training ground never part of the group assets and sold to a third party for now at least
- the biggest liability the bond debt not settled. £14m (per 2020 accounts) of it was borrowed by ACL which means the rest was the Rugby club. In fact the netting off of inter company accounts suggests ACL sub group only owes the wasps group £8m. Yet ACL & ACL 2006 are liable as guarantors for the full 35m
- Wasps rugby despite having the biggest proportion of the liabilities has very few actual assets. The P share, training equipment and a few fixtures and fittings, but doesnt own directly the ground, training facilities, the fixtures etc of the stadium, the stadium trademark & goodwill. Rugby players carry no transfer value. Wasps holding does of course own the shares in ACL for now
- assets can be transferred between companies that are 100% owned by holding company
- precious little communication from senior wasps management/directors and Richardson reappointed a director. Certainly not much if anything by way of empathy for the ordinary staff who have or will lose their jobs.
- wasps players being given contracts elsewhere till end of season or just sitting tight. RFU rules say rugby debts have to paid in any rescue.
- this twitter release last night regarding the rescue of wasps rugby by a new company - i assume that means transfer of assets and rugby liabilities only to a new entity. Could also include the shares in ACL because overall the bond security is unaffected because the only asset charged is the lease in ACL and that doesnt move
- the offers that have been rejected
- wasps dont appear to have been involved in the talks between ACL, CCFC, CCC & Delaware
- no mention of moving from the area to restart, no apologies to the people they have let down
- RFU even releasing statements saying progress by administrators of rugby club being made
- the convenient leaks of information - i wonder if that comes from the owner to set the scene
- the bond trustee statement about request for further funds, with the stated consequence of ACL being liquidated not just administration.
- the threat of the administrators to perhaps put ACL in to administration.
Just a few of the things that worry me about what is going on. Things dont add up in a positive way to me. It would not surprise if the new entity ends up owning the stadium but with a lot of the existing debt and charges greatly reduced or gone. One year in the Championship to prove worth then business as usual
like i said i get a bad feeling about this, i hope i am very very wrong
The bottom line for CCFC fans though is will they should they carry on be based and play in Coventry, I don’t care if they re-form and become a rugby force again just not here, any group taking the Wasps name on must surely see Coventry as a home base is not for them.Am getting a bad feeling about this. Things seem to me to point to a prepack company rescue where unsecured creditors and the employees are thoroughly screwed by the money people.
we have all seen a company structure used before but there seems to be some sort of pattern here too
- accounts for wasps holdings group filed on time
- accounts for ACL, ACL 2006, IEC not filed, all subsidiaries of wasps holdings. How do you sign the main accounts off if you cant at the same date sign off the subsidiaries. What are we not supposed to see in the subsidiary company figures? Have assets moved?
- The training ground never part of the group assets and sold to a third party for now at least
- the biggest liability the bond debt not settled. £14m (per 2020 accounts) of it was borrowed by ACL which means the rest was the Rugby club. In fact the netting off of inter company accounts suggests ACL sub group only owes the wasps group £8m. Yet ACL & ACL 2006 are liable as guarantors for the full 35m
- Wasps rugby despite having the biggest proportion of the liabilities has very few actual assets. The P share, training equipment and a few fixtures and fittings, but doesnt own directly the ground, training facilities, the fixtures etc of the stadium, the stadium trademark & goodwill. Rugby players carry no transfer value. Wasps holding does of course own the shares in ACL for now
- assets can be transferred between companies that are 100% owned by holding company
- precious little communication from senior wasps management/directors and Richardson reappointed a director. Certainly not much if anything by way of empathy for the ordinary staff who have or will lose their jobs.
- wasps players being given contracts elsewhere till end of season or just sitting tight. RFU rules say rugby debts have to paid in any rescue.
- this twitter release last night regarding the rescue of wasps rugby by a new company - i assume that means transfer of assets and rugby liabilities only to a new entity. Could also include the shares in ACL because overall the bond security is unaffected because the only asset charged is the lease in ACL and that doesnt move
- the offers that have been rejected
- wasps dont appear to have been involved in the talks between ACL, CCFC, CCC & Delaware
- no mention of moving from the area to restart, no apologies to the people they have let down
- RFU even releasing statements saying progress by administrators of rugby club being made
- the convenient leaks of information - i wonder if that comes from the owner to set the scene
- the bond trustee statement about request for further funds, with the stated consequence of ACL being liquidated not just administration.
- the threat of the administrators to perhaps put ACL in to administration.
Just a few of the things that worry me about what is going on. Things dont add up in a positive way to me. It would not surprise if the new entity ends up owning the stadium but with a lot of the existing debt and charges greatly reduced or gone. One year in the Championship to prove worth then business as usual
like i said i get a bad feeling about this, i hope i am very very wrong
Really hope you're wrong OSB. Sounds like the new owners of Wasps are purely rugby people so wouldn't really make sense to have a massive complex to look after. Although timing of this just before ACL admin does seem a bit suspiciousAm getting a bad feeling about this. Things seem to me to point to a prepack company rescue where unsecured creditors and the employees are thoroughly screwed by the money people.
we have all seen a company structure used before but there seems to be some sort of pattern here too
- accounts for wasps holdings group filed on time
- accounts for ACL, ACL 2006, IEC not filed, all subsidiaries of wasps holdings. How do you sign the main accounts off if you cant at the same date sign off the subsidiaries. What are we not supposed to see in the subsidiary company figures? Have assets moved?
- The training ground never part of the group assets and sold to a third party for now at least
- the biggest liability the bond debt not settled. £14m (per 2020 accounts) of it was borrowed by ACL which means the rest was the Rugby club. In fact the netting off of inter company accounts suggests ACL sub group only owes the wasps group £8m. Yet ACL & ACL 2006 are liable as guarantors for the full 35m
- Wasps rugby despite having the biggest proportion of the liabilities has very few actual assets. The P share, training equipment and a few fixtures and fittings, but doesnt own directly the ground, training facilities, the fixtures etc of the stadium, the stadium trademark & goodwill. Rugby players carry no transfer value. Wasps holding does of course own the shares in ACL for now
- assets can be transferred between companies that are 100% owned by holding company
- precious little communication from senior wasps management/directors and Richardson reappointed a director. Certainly not much if anything by way of empathy for the ordinary staff who have or will lose their jobs.
- wasps players being given contracts elsewhere till end of season or just sitting tight. RFU rules say rugby debts have to paid in any rescue.
- this twitter release last night regarding the rescue of wasps rugby by a new company - i assume that means transfer of assets and rugby liabilities only to a new entity. Could also include the shares in ACL because overall the bond security is unaffected because the only asset charged is the lease in ACL and that doesnt move
- the offers that have been rejected
- wasps dont appear to have been involved in the talks between ACL, CCFC, CCC & Delaware
- no mention of moving from the area to restart, no apologies to the people they have let down
- RFU even releasing statements saying progress by administrators of rugby club being made
- the convenient leaks of information - i wonder if that comes from the owner to set the scene
- the bond trustee statement about request for further funds, with the stated consequence of ACL being liquidated not just administration.
- the threat of the administrators to perhaps put ACL in to administration.
Just a few of the things that worry me about what is going on. Things dont add up in a positive way to me. It would not surprise if the new entity ends up owning the stadium but with a lot of the existing debt and charges greatly reduced or gone. One year in the Championship to prove worth then business as usual
like i said i get a bad feeling about this, i hope i am very very wrong
New poeple more likely to be a front.Really hope you're wrong OSB. Sounds like the new owners of Wasps are purely rugby people so wouldn't really make sense to have a massive complex to look after. Although timing of this just before ACL admin does seem a bit suspicious
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My thinking too.New poeple more likely to be a front.
The bottom line for CCFC fans though is will they should they carry on be based and play in Coventry, I don’t care if they re-form and become a rugby force again just not here, any group taking the Wasps name on must surely see Coventry as a home base is not for them.
Really hope you're wrong OSB. Sounds like the new owners of Wasps are purely rugby people so wouldn't really make sense to have a massive complex to look after. Although timing of this just before ACL admin does seem a bit suspicious
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Is it an asset with a 35mill bond against it?If you were the new owners coming in what asset would you rely on? I dont think there is any intention of moving away because they own the stadium.
Is it an asset with a 35mill bond against it?
So they would need to agree an amount with bond holders?well depends on how they do the prepack and how that is financed. if the prepack clears the liability then yes
I am just because I want answers. Bored now.All of a sudden I’m not looking forward to tomorrow.
So they would need to agree an amount with bond holders?
yes i would think so....... could be the full amount or "the best deal they could get".
I am guessing if the new entity buys it for £35m that in the coming financials it will be worth more.
If the money to buy it isnt put in to the new entity by interest bearing loans, say by issued share capital, then profitability and viability is improved
I don’t see how the administrator could legitimately say they’ve found the best deal for bond holders in a pre-pack unless it was for the whole lot.yes i would think so....... could be the full amount or "the best deal they could get".
I am guessing if the new entity buys it for £35m that in the coming financials it will be worth more.
If the money to buy it isnt put in to the new entity by interest bearing loans, say by issued share capital, then profitability and viability is improved
I don’t see how the administrator could legitimately say they’ve found the best deal for bond holders in a pre-pack unless it was for the whole lot.
Surely if it’s a % in the £ deal then they have to tender to multiple parties.
For ccfc's admin or Ricoh sale?even if someone else were to buy the stadium in administration wasp
if thats all thats on offer how are the bondholders going to challenge it?
think back to 2014 do we know what the best deal was? sealed bids wasnt it?
If it's worth more why couldn't they refinance?
It's as if random numbers are just plucked out
ccfc's administration
i dont know.
will all be based on independent valuers reports employed by the owners
well depends on how they do the prepack and how that is financed. if the prepack clears the liability then yes
could easily be barking up the wrong tree but we will know soon enough whats to happen
if thats all thats on offer how are the bondholders going to challenge it?
think back to 2014 do we know what the best deal was? sealed bids wasnt it?
Coventry in talks about yet another groundshare
Exclusive: Walsall may offer a solution if owners Arena Coventry Limited go into administrationwww.telegraph.co.uk
Then it comes down to the trustee... If he's a wasps man?If it goes to Liquidation the Bondholders control the Asset. The Trustee then acts for them ( whoever "them" might be )
Not sure of the process then if he agrees to sell at a figure below the debt amount?
Yep, said it before I can't see him just walking away and thinking better luck next time.I suspect Richardson might be content with walking away from Wasps Rugby Club but I can't believe he will walk away from his £ millions. His moves prior to admitting that the Wasp companies were broke suggested a cunning plan
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