Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (9 Viewers)

Nick said:

They aren't just going to be able to go into admin and have debts wiped and go again, surely?

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I'd guess it'll be like Worcester. Relegated to the championship, whole new squad. No lease though, no 'P' shares, but no debt. As long as they bugger off back down south I guess I couldn't care less.

chiefdave said:

Probably more like when we get told we're leaving no stone unturned in assembling the greatest squad in the history of football.

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I doubt very much they are planning to reform in Coventry. I mean why would you set up a spin off rugby club in a city that with respect fucking detests them?

I also doubt they will have the capital to purchase a stadium like the cbs and would look to set up near there London original base.

CCFC54321 said:

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CCFC54321 said:

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I wasn't worried before, I am now

On a positive note, looks like rugby has sorted their problem with no relegation from the top league. Get promoted and wait for the teams to go bust. A bit brutal, but it is turning into an excellent spectator sport, even if you're not interested in the actual playing of rugby.

CCFC54321 said:

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Things that make you go hmmm. This was just before everyone being made redundant.

Said on another thread, just feels like we are going to end up getting shafted. Starting to fear there will be some way they can come back in, clear the debt and keep hold of the Arena.

If this all ends up with us as Wasps’ tenants then I’ll either go on a murderous rampage or just give up. How many times can we get fucked over.

Liquid Gold said:

If this all ends up with us as Wasps’ tenants then I’ll either go on a murderous rampage or just give up. How many times can we get fucked over.

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I just can’t see it happening mate

robbiekeane said:

I just can’t see it happening mate

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The murderous rampage? No, me neither. I think he's exaggerating.

Surely we’re not going to see something like this happen again via the administration process:

This new formed spin off wasps rugby club mkii will need to go through the RFU etc for proof of funding etc. By the time that happens the CBS will be hands of new people.

Wasps mkii version cant hold their hat on playing in the CBS as the new land lords may not want them there?

For what it’s worth I think they will reform in the London Borough. Be madness to try again in Coventry.

CCFC54321 said:

This new formed spin off wasps rugby club mkii will need to go through the RFU etc for proof of funding etc. By the time that happens the CBS will be hands of new people.

Wasps mkii version cant hold their hat on playing in the CBS as the new land lords may not want them there?

For what it’s worth I think they will reform in the London Borough. Be madness to try again in Coventry.

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They have also lost all their players. It's a complete rebuild you would have thought.

Otis said:

They have also lost all their players. It's a complete rebuild you would have thought.

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New owners of the stadium would look at the revenue gained from a rugby championship team playing there in front of a couple of thousand and think it’s not worth it.

CCFC54321 said:

New owners of the stadium would look at the revenue gained from a rugby championship team playing there in front of a couple of thousand and think it’s not worth it.

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Yes. Without the draw of top players, you would think attendances would be pretty small.

I don't wish to see them go bust and disappear off the face of the earth. I just want them gone from our city.

London seems the obvious place for them.

If the wasps group own ACL and look to get a buyer ( or buying what they want…) could that mean an extension could be given to ACL or not??

chiefdave said:

I wasn't worried before, I am now

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Worried about what ?

CCFC54321 said:

Steve Waggott gives update on Rovers' game with Coventry City

Steve Waggott expects Rovers’ game against Coventry City to go ahead – but says a decision over where the fixture will be played will be made on…

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk

Half an hour indicates Birmingham citys ground?

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Sounds like Leicester to me.

MalcSB said:

Is Birmingham in the East Midlands now?

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Burton is

Grendel said:

Burton is

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I think it could be Burton. Clearly a relationship there. They'll just have to work out a system for tickets.

No way will it be Leicester or Derby etc.

I'm surprised Northampton hasn't been mentioned though.

pusbccfc said:

I think it could be Burton. Clearly a relationship there. They'll just have to work out a system for tickets.

No way will it be Leicester or Derby etc.

I'm surprised Northampton hasn't been mentioned though.

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6912 capacity.
Wonder how many Blackburn have sold?
If its say 1k then the club won't even to be able to accommodate 50% of ST holders, though I'm not sure how many will try and travel. I'm not going to bother personally.

clint van damme said:

6912 capacity.
Wonder how many Blackburn have sold?
If its say 1k then the club won't even to be able to accommodate 50% of ST holders, though I'm not sure how many will try and travel. I'm not going to bother personally.

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blackburn have sold 450

They have removed Bridge from his cage and given him his crayons back

Grendel said:

blackburn have sold 450

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Give them a refund and say no away fans pointless paying for extra policing for a handful of fans

Terry Gibson's perm said:

Give them a refund and say no away fans pointless paying for extra policing for a handful of fans

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Can't imagine EFL would be happy with that

What a fuckin shambles

clint van damme said:

6912 capacity.
Wonder how many Blackburn have sold?
If its say 1k then the club won't even to be able to accommodate 50% of ST holders, though I'm not sure how many will try and travel. I'm not going to bother personally.

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This is the thing, the club know we won't take more than 5000 anywhere, even Birmingham. Not on a Tuesday night in November.

Calista said:

Can't imagine EFL would be happy with that

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So what, what will they do threaten to take more points off us they don’t want the hassle.

Here’s a question if we have to make a decision by mid day on where we are playing, what if acls decision is say 2 in the afternoon and they say the ground can be used ???

This whole saga is going to end in disaster I can feel it

SBT said:

Touching tribute from ACL at the end of the game with the ring of steel to stop pitch invasions from both sets of fans, may as well use up that steward budget while you still can.

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Rediculous wasn't it.

Am getting a bad feeling about this. Things seem to me to point to a prepack company rescue where unsecured creditors and the employees are thoroughly screwed by the money people.

we have all seen a company structure used before but there seems to be some sort of pattern here too, some of the following is educated guesswork but not most

- accounts for wasps holdings group filed on time
- accounts for ACL, ACL 2006, IEC not filed, all subsidiaries of wasps holdings. How do you sign the main accounts off if you cant at the same date sign off the subsidiaries. What are we not supposed to see in the subsidiary company figures? Have assets moved?
- The training ground never part of the group assets and sold to a third party for now at least
- The administrators have been providing advice for months before wasps holdings went in to administration.
- the fact that the entity with the biggest debts is placed in administration whilst ACL could be straight liquidated
- the biggest liability the bond debt not settled. £14m (per 2020 accounts) of it was borrowed by ACL which means the rest was the Rugby club. In fact the netting off of inter company accounts suggests ACL sub group only owes the wasps group £8m as at 2020. Yet ACL & ACL 2006 are liable as guarantors for the full 35m
- Wasps rugby despite having the biggest proportion of the liabilities has very few actual assets. The P share, training equipment and a few fixtures and fittings, the "brand", but doesnt own directly the ground, training facilities, the fixtures etc of the stadium, the stadium trademark & goodwill. Rugby players carry no transfer value. Wasps holding does of course own the shares in ACL for now
- assets can be transferred between companies that are 100% owned by holding company
- precious little communication from senior wasps management/directors and Richardson reappointed a director. Certainly not much if anything by way of empathy for the ordinary staff who have or will lose their jobs. Yes there was to the playing staff (they want to retain their goodwill) but it was the administrators that culled the office staff. Players are a protected species of course and got a full explanation from the CEO
- wasps players being given contracts elsewhere till end of season or just sitting tight. RFU rules say rugby debts have to paid in any rescue.
- this twitter release last night regarding the rescue of wasps rugby by a new company - i assume that means transfer of assets and rugby liabilities only to a new entity. Could also include the shares in ACL because overall the bond security is unaffected because the only asset charged is the lease in ACL and that doesnt move
- the offers that have been rejected. Does that set the price or at least provide evidence for the new entity to answer any challenges as to value?
- wasps don't appear to have been involved in the talks between ACL, CCFC, CCC & Delaware (those four trying to work together is a positive i think)
- no mention of moving from the area to restart, no apologies to the people they have let down
- RFU even releasing statements saying progress by administrators of rugby club being made and wasps could appeal their decision
- the convenient leaks of information - i wonder if that comes from the owner to set the scene
- the bond trustee statement about request for further funds, with the stated consequence of ACL being liquidated not just administration.
- the threat of the administrators to perhaps put ACL in to administration.

Just a few of the things that worry me about what is going on. Things dont add up in a positive way to me. It would not surprise if the new entity ends up owning the stadium but with a lot of the existing debt and charges greatly reduced or gone. ACL sacrificed for the Rugby club to continue. One year in the Championship to prove worth then business as usual

like i said i get a bad feeling about this, i hope i am very very wrong

junglej13 said:

Said on another thread, just feels like we are going to end up getting shafted. Starting to fear there will be some way they can come back in, clear the debt and keep hold of the Arena.

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Of course we will get shafted, we always do.

duffer said:

The trustee is supposed to be acting on the bondholders behalf, but has been remarkably inactive so far. However, at some point he's going to be obliged to step in. There's no way he could just let the lease slip away without challenge; if he does you'd think the bondholders would have a serious case for the trustee to answer.

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He acted quickly enough to correct defaults in the Bond Covenants by WASPS. Found the 25% and passed the vote with no difficulty
( just saying !! )