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Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alkhen
  • Start date Sep 21, 2022
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Macca

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,286
To save anybody reading a dozen pages, nobody knows anything
 
Reactions: SkyB, Somerset Sky Blue, Jay Cee and 2 others
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,287
Esoterica said:
Sisu being difficult to work with is just a myth perpetuated by the PR machine at the time, to make us try and believe that the issue was all on SISUs side. And that has started unravelling in recent weeks.
Click to expand...
Well, they can be difficult to work with, let's be honest. It's not just CCC either, they've been a nightmare in other ventures elsewhere too.

That doesn't automatically preclude them however, as there are examples where that isn't the case. But let's not pretend they're always sweetness and light!

The best argument is that any disputes have not been with people they've been in partnership with - it's been people and organisations with competing needs and interests.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,288
As I’ve said before, those that think Joy / SISU cannot raise serious funds need to try Sober October.

Similarly, of course SISU want to 100% control the Arena, the investments in club and stadium are worth more than the sum of their parts.

Money, to a Hedge fund is just a cost, a ROI is required to service the debt. The non-football revenue will partly do that, the football rent revenue will cover the rest (they will keep the two notionally separate).

Of course SISU will be at the table and have enough potential clout to ensure that a rival bidder won’t get anything on the cheap.

They also have a 10 year lease and don’t have (as we have seen, although not as they wanted) any hesitation in being litigious. The council lease will be scrutinised by SISU’s legal team and phrases such as “insolvency event” could be pivotal.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,289
Skyblueweeman said:
I think you're right.

I seem to recall something about their own accounts 'trending in the right direction' but those figures were influenced by the CVC money so take that out and they weren't so rosy.
Click to expand...

I found this site that shows a graph of ACL 2006 finances. quite interesting

also shows the accounts are 210 days over due

ACL Astute 2006 Limited - Company Profile - Endole

ACL Astute 2006 Limited is a dissolved company located in Bristol, Bristol. View company profile, shareholders, contacts, financials, industry and description.
suite.endole.co.uk

Even more interesting for ACL

ACL Astute 2022 Limited - Company Profile - Endole

ACL Astute 2022 Limited is a liquidation company located in Bristol, Bristol. View company profile, shareholders, contacts, financials, industry and description.
suite.endole.co.uk

is the bond on ACL or ACL2006. looking at the liabilities it looks like ACL
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,290
Macca said:
To save anybody reading a dozen pages, nobody knows anything
Click to expand...

True story
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,291
Macca said:
To save anybody reading a dozen pages, nobody knows anything
Click to expand...
Well I know some things.

I know what I've just made for lunch, for example!
 
Reactions: Bad Boy

Bad Boy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,292
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well I know some things.

I know what I've just made for lunch, for example!
Click to expand...
Me too NW.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,293
bad boy said:
Me too NW.
Click to expand...
In which case you'll also know that I'm sitting around in my pants watching Judge Judy while eating it!
 
Reactions: duffer, Mcbean, robbiethemole and 1 other person

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,294
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well I know some things.

I know what I've just made for lunch, for example!
Click to expand...

I know that I'm going to the gym now and based on recent events, there's a chance we'll not have a Prime Minister in the next 2 hours!
 
Reactions: duffer, clint van damme and Bad Boy
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,295
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well I know some things.

I know what I've just made for lunch, for example!
Click to expand...

Double cheeseburger with no pickles?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,296
Esoterica said:
Sisu being difficult to work with is just a myth perpetuated by the PR machine at the time, to make us try and believe that the issue was all on SISUs side. And that has started unraveling in recent weeks.

Blues, Northampton, Burton, the EFL, Dhillons, Hummel, Allsop&Allsop, the taxman, player wages, Stewards, the police - just a few different examples from various avenues that go into running a football club where we've never heard of any issues at all.
Click to expand...

I pointed this out to a wasps fan, he couldn't grasp it when I pointed out how many people wasps had fucked over in comparison.
 
Reactions: Senior Vick from Alicante

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,297
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well I know some things.

I know what I've just made for lunch, for example!
Click to expand...

If you or your lunch exist at all.
 
Reactions: Bad Boy

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,298
Nick said:
The thing is though, wasps and the council have a much worse history.
Click to expand...
This is true but Wasps for all ‘intents and purpose’ are now history, out of sight out of mind.
Councils by there very nature/structure tend to be a very transient operation, relations between SISU and key members of CCC were clearly toxic and had probably reached a point of no return, but in the years that have past the Council personnel has likely changed beyond recognition.
 

Bad Boy

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,299
Deleted member 5849 said:
In which case you'll also know that I'm sitting around in my pants watching Judge Judy while eating it!
Click to expand...
How very unappetising. Let's hope it's not something warm and you spill it.
 

Covkid1968#

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,300
rhino1002 said:
Likewise
my uncle used to manage them and got them promoted back to the first division in 1938
I've never understood the manufactured rivalry with Villa as they don't give a stuff about us
when i started supporting City in the 1960s our main rival was wolves not villa but they didn't consider us a rival they were rivals with west brom and still are
Click to expand...
It was Leics in the early to mid eighties so it was odd changing to Villa. Still didn’t stop me getting arrested on Swan lane against them and missing out on football for 2 years. !!!
 
Reactions: joemercersaces, Gynnsthetonic, Bad Boy and 2 others

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,301
Brylowes said:
This is true but Wasps for all ‘intents and purpose’ are now history, out of sight out of mind.
Councils by there very nature/structure tend to be a very transient operation, relations between SISU and key members of CCC were clearly toxic and had probably reached a point of no return, but in the years that have past the Council personnel has likely changed beyond recognition.
Click to expand...
Not really. Look at the CEO for example.
 
R

robbiethemole

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,302
the two worst people are still there? Maton and Duggins
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,303
robbiethemole said:
the two worst people are still there? Maton and Duggins
Click to expand...
Make it 3 then
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,304
Nick said:
Make it 3 then
Click to expand...
They are all much of a oneness. Maton, Duggins, Lucas, Putin.
 
Reactions: BornSlippySkyBlue, robbiethemole, TwistAndShoutCCFC1987 and 4 others

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,305
Otis said:
They are all much of a oneness. Maton, Duggins, Lucas, Putin.
Click to expand...
c

If SISU are the only players in town I dont think they can afford to be choosey?
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,306
robbiethemole said:
the two worst people are still there? Maton and Duggins
Click to expand...
Reeves
 
Reactions: robbiethemole

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,307
Anne Lucas is mainly responsible for driving the deal through with Mutton. She was ultimately responsible.

Ann Lucas: Wasps deal best for Coventry as a whole

But Coventry City Council leader apologises to Coventry Rugby Club officials who felt they were not consulted enough
www.coventrytelegraph.net
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, Skyblueweeman, torchomatic and 1 other person

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,308
Nick said:
Not really. Look at the CEO for example.
Click to expand...
A lot of them will have changed tho Nick, not only that, but I don’t think a group of Councillors would harbour the same level of loyalties, as compared to say ‘a company board.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,309
Brylowes said:
A lot of them will have changed tho Nick, not only that, but I don’t think a group of Councillors would harbour the same level of loyalties, as compared to say ‘a company board.
Click to expand...
They seem very loyal
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,310
Anything likely before tomorrow?
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,311
Deleted member 5849 said:
Not that I want to defend them too much, because there are some obvious examples, and not just vs CCC... but they have, as far as I'm aware, always been professional with other clubs on both transfers and also ground rentals, have always paid the tax bill fully, and generally conduct themselves fairly honourably elsewhere. The partnership with Hummel also goes OK, I think?

So I think they'd be OK, if (if!) they could reach a deal on partnership.
Click to expand...
tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,312
tisza said:
tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
Click to expand...
They were client customer relationships too.

Ccc and higgs are hardly strangers to court cases themselves
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,313
Macca said:
To save anybody reading a dozen pages, nobody knows anything
Click to expand...
I wish I'd seen this 12 pages ago
 
Reactions: Hiraeth, Macca, Terry_dactyl and 6 others
S

steve cooper

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,314
Assuming admin happens, and there are multiple interested parties, I assume it will be an auction with sealed bids. Will be a couple of weeks before we know anything
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,315
We’re CCC and Higgs ever actually partners with SISU? Wasn’t it a commercial arrangement involving payment of rent at a level unaffordable below the Premiership and without access to other match day revenues?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,316
MalcSB said:
We’re CCC and Higgs ever actually partners with SISU? Wasn’t it a commercial arrangement involving payment of rent at a level unaffordable below the Premiership and without access to other match day revenues?
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
Reactions: robbiethemole
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,317
tisza said:
tbf most of these are straightforward customer / client relationships rather than partnerships. This new proposed relationship would be like the ACL where SISU's history with previous partners (CCC & Higgs) was rocky and ultimately litigious.
SISU's persistence with various legal actions (ultimately unsuccessful) isn't a great look for a new partner.
SISU's mantra when they came in was they had to have 100% of a business because of the conditions of their investment processes.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't class CCC and Higgs as partners, we gave up that relationship when signing away our share in ACL to Higgs.

It's still damning SISU with faint praise, and I agree that those relationships have not been good. But, there's probably enough not to be a red flag.

Of more interest to future partners would probably be our partnership (or not!) with Warwick University, and how that's played / playing out...
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,318
Really looking forward to the half and half Cov/Villa flag at the arena on Saturday.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, SkyBlueSam01, TwistAndShoutCCFC1987 and 8 others

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,319
Otis said:
They are all much of a oneness. Maton, Duggins, Lucas, Putin.
Click to expand...
Gynnsthetonic said:
Reeves
Click to expand...

Duggins a bit overshadowed in that lineup

 
Last edited: Oct 27, 2022

Brylowes

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 27, 2022
  • #5,320
Nick said:
They seem very loyal
Click to expand...
But their stock will rise or fall on the decisions they make, if SISU present a plan that safeguards the arena’s future, gives CCFC a permanent home and the opportunity to grow and prosper and at the same time gives the Council a satisfactory resolution to what has been a long painful process for all concerned I’m pretty sure they’ll take it.
For them to reject it on the grounds of previous experiences, would almost certainly set off another chain of events resulting in yet more years of acrimony, court proceedings and hardship all round, almost certainly producing no winners.
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, ccfcchris, robbiethemole and 4 others
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