Wasps finances 2016 (2 Viewers)

oldskyblue58 · Nov 1, 2016

For those interested this is the link to the stock exchange summary of the Wasps Holdings 2016 financials

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/WAS1/13018904.html

There is also a link to the full accounts here

http://www.wasps.co.uk/docs/default-source/Bonds/wasps-financial-results-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Moff · Nov 1, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
For those interested this is the link to the stock exchange summary of the Wasps Holdings 2016 financials

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/WAS1/13018904.html

There is also a link to the full accounts here

http://www.wasps.co.uk/docs/default-source/Bonds/wasps-financial-results-2016.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Is it me, or are they underwhelming?

Interesting to see the hype about the promotion of World Class Acts such as the MTV Crashes event, shortly followed by the admission that this event fell below expectation thus increasing operating costs.

martcov · Nov 1, 2016

Loss doesn't seem to be too worrying.

'A retained loss should be of concern to an investor if a company has been in business for a long period of time, since it indicates that the entity has struggled to find a consistent strategy for earning a profit. However, this is not necessarily the case for a start up company, which is expected to incur losses as it rolls out its initial products and services and attempts to gain market share. The latter situation may make particular sense if the intent is to build a product or customer base and then sell the company based on the prospects of the business, rather than its proven profitability.'

stupot07 · Nov 1, 2016

Losses up from £2.4m to £3.8m before additional one off exceptional items.

Group loss of £5.3m

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fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

Not huge losses on that turnover though, are they?

Do they know something we don't?

· Railway station open and operating for match days

fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

Increase in average gate from 11k to 16k but ticket income only up 19%

Moff · Nov 1, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Not huge losses on that turnover though, are they?

Still losses though. What a shame

oldfiver · Nov 1, 2016

oldfiver said:
They were supposed to have a revaluation of the Arena this year but have relied on a Management valuation instead. It happens to be the same as last year!

Moonstone Holdings Debt of £9m seems to have been replaced by Richardson?

stupot07 · Nov 1, 2016

£17.5m in wages over 216 employees (57 players) at an average of £80.6k

3 directors renumeration £905k,

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oldfiver · Nov 1, 2016

stupot07 said:
£17.5m in wages over 216 employees (57 players) at an average of £80.6k

3 directors renumeration £905k,

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Losing money and paying management fees? Who would have thought it!

stupot07 · Nov 1, 2016

oldfiver said:
Losing money and paying management fees? Who would have thought it!

£14.5m in admin fees, not sure what thats about.
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fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

£2.3m interest on the retail bond - not sure if that's full year or not, think it was only issued about a year ago wasn't it?

speedie87 · Nov 1, 2016

New Xtragrass pitch was installed during the summer of 2015, benefitting Coventry City Football Club and attracting the Ricoh's first England Football U21 game

well that's just not true...............

i note the full accounts say attracting the group's first enlgand u21 game, so i'll let them off!

fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

(This isn't a complaint) but very little mention of CCFC in the accounts, wonder if next year would mention any potential impact of no long term agreement with CCFC. It's a loss of 23 event days a year out of 139 (though I am not quite sure what the methodology is for calculating event days).

oldfiver · Nov 1, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
£2.3m interest on the retail bond - not sure if that's full year or not, think it was only issued about a year ago wasn't it?

Six month payment due next on 11th November

oldfiver · Nov 1, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
(This isn't a complaint) but very little mention of CCFC in the accounts, wonder if next year would mention any potential impact of no long term agreement with CCFC. It's a loss of 23 event days a year out of 139 (though I am not quite sure what the methodology is for calculating event days).

The Valuation is future income based and your note would have to be considered in a longer term view - as would the lack of a long agreement for naming rights

stupot07 · Nov 1, 2016

And people think that wasps will want to buy a football club who needs significant finance in order to get up and stay up in the championship.

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fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

stupot07 said:
And people think that wasps will want to buy a football club who needs significant finance in order to get up and stay up in the championship.

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It makes perfect sense!

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 1, 2016

Moff said:
Still losses though. What a shame

If I'm honest I'd fully expect them to run at a loss for this set of accounts, maybe one or two more.

The bigger question is whether they can turn that around with their strategy, in time.

fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

oldfiver said:
The Valuation is future income based and your note would have to be considered in a longer term view - as would the lack of a long agreement for naming rights

Is the naming rights that much of an issue? Or was it mentioned in the bond prospectus?

Grendel · Nov 1, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Is the naming rights that much of an issue? Or was it mentioned in the bond prospectus?

According to Italia JLR are champing at the bit and it's only ccfc and the legal dispute that's preventing them signing.

wingy · Nov 1, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
If I'm honest I'd fully expect them to run at a loss for this set of accounts, maybe one or two more.

The bigger question is whether they can turn that around with their strategy, in time.

Can't pretend I understand but as Stu mentioned £14.5M admin fees?
Did it say sports turnover under £11M, that's lower than Gloucester turned over 3-4 years back.
Obviously naming rights is an issue and possibly is one of the factors between us.
They get an extra £1.2M from the RFU as of next season.
They only have £1.2M left from the bond issue to draw down.

oldfiver · Nov 1, 2016

Grendel said:
According to Italia JLR are champing at the bit and it's only ccfc and the legal dispute that's preventing them signing.

Will they get Local Authority and Development Grant Funding for this as they seem to get it for everything else?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 1, 2016

Interestingly my auditor friend's comment: "Bottom line is these aren't the healthiest set of accounts. That's a hefty loss as a percentage of turnover, and it's not like there are any big exceptional items in there this year. They've also massively drawn down on their cash reserves. I can't see any huge creditors that immediately suggest that this is a short term effect "

(Bear in mind his comment about CCFC's were that the club's fucked, you're all fucked, why the fuck is the club still running?!? You can see he doesn't have a bias )

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 1, 2016

Food and drink expenses of £5.6mil seems *enormous*

Nick · Nov 1, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Food and drink expenses of £5.6mil seems *enormous*

*

*This is a joke, before anybody cries!

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 1, 2016

In case of interest, Leicester Tigers results for comparison:

http://www.leicestertigers.com/images/content/photos/Final_2016_Accounts_low_res_for_web.pdf

wingy · Nov 1, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Food and drink expenses of £5.6mil seems *enormous*

Is that indicative of the Compass deal?
If so wasn't there a rumour on here that they'd bought a larger stake in IEC?

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 1, 2016

wingy said:
Is that indicative of the Compass deal?
If so wasn't there a rumour on here that they'd bought a larger stake in IEC?

The year before it was nearly £4mil.

However much it costs to feed Haskell on boat trips?

chiefdave · Nov 1, 2016

On face value doesn't seem great to me and certainly would lend weight to the argument that our fans should stay away from Wasps games to reduce their income. Of course I'm not an accountant, I might ask mine to take a look and see what he thinks.

Given that they are claiming each individual area is performing well, and that occupancy of the various facilities is high, where are they going to make up the shortfall on an annual basis?

duffer · Nov 1, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
If I'm honest I'd fully expect them to run at a loss for this set of accounts, maybe one or two more.

The bigger question is whether they can turn that around with their strategy, in time.

Yep, that's just about how I'd read it too. If I had one concern, it would be that I think that I don't see any really big areas of (edit) future growth on the pitch or in terms of attendance - in essence I think we're close to peak Wasps in that sense. They're pretty shrewd off the pitch in all fairness, but servicing that level of debt would worry me. If it goes wrong with that level of gearing, I fancy it might go wrong in a big way.

martcov · Nov 1, 2016

100000 a year at the moment and a bit of F&B from CCFC doesn't seem to be a game changer. They cannot increase our rent too much, there isn't a great deal to take from CCFC. If we go, they won't notice it in relation to turnover either. One decent concert could cover everything we contribute over a whole season and more.

chiefdave · Nov 1, 2016

martcov said:
One decent concert could cover everything we contribute over a whole season and more.

Equally one underperforming event could cause issues. When we talk about losing our income we shouldn't just assume they can grab another event and it will automatically be successful.

martcov · Nov 1, 2016

chiefdave said:
Equally one underperforming event could cause issues. When we talk about losing our income we shouldn't just assume they can grab another event and it will automatically be successful.

The issues wouldn't be solved by a hundred grand from us. I see our value more as leverage for the naming rights ( we are/ could be very high profile ) and keeping CCC and the Coventry public ( voters ) on board.

fernandopartridge · Nov 1, 2016

Wasps RFC turnover is not dissimilar to that of CCFC's as a Championship club at the Ricoh, slightly better presumably due to higher ticket prices

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