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Wasps downward spiral... (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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T

Travs

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2020
  • #2,101
Although they look to be in a strong position to qualify for Europe (assuming that is happening next/this season).

No idea how much of a lifeline this may (or may not) be...
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2020
  • #2,102
chiefdave said:
If you take that at face value and assume crowds aren't returning anytime soon that would put Wasps on course for losses of something approaching £15-20m before you even consider the additional impact of the exhibition side of things.

And its now less than 20 months until they have to repay or refinance the bond.

Even the most optimistic Wasps fan must have serious concerns.
Click to expand...
Nah, Les Reid invented COVID
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,103
chiefdave said:
If you take that at face value and assume crowds aren't returning anytime soon that would put Wasps on course for losses of something approaching £15-20m before you even consider the additional impact of the exhibition side of things.

And its now less than 20 months until they have to repay or refinance the bond.

Even the most optimistic Wasps fan must have serious concerns.
Click to expand...
I guess COVID hasn't been all bad then. Couple more lockdowns to starve out the insects anyone?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,104
Another grim read if your a wasp fan. Behind a paywall mind you

Wasps chief warns of drastic cuts in rugby union without government help

Stephen Vaughan has warned Premiership clubs will have to make drastic cuts in a struggle for survival unless the government agrees to a compensation proposal
www.theguardian.com
 
Reactions: TomRad85

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,105
jordan210 said:
Another grim read if your a wasp fan. Behind a paywall mind you

Wasps chief warns of drastic cuts in rugby union without government help

Stephen Vaughan has warned Premiership clubs will have to make drastic cuts in a struggle for survival unless the government agrees to a compensation proposal
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
It isn't pay walled it is free, you just need to register or click that you'll register later
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,106
fernandopartridge said:
It isn't pay walled it is free, you just need to register or click that you'll register later
Click to expand...

I need to learn to pay attention !

But looks very grim for wasps.

"Vaughan, the Wasps group chief executive, said that without financial assistance, following the decision to put the return of fans to sports grounds on hold indefinitely, his club would lose £500,000 a month and that all options would have to be on the table, including further wage cuts, to avoid closure."

Even with fans in they did not turn a profit so isn't like having fans it would make a huge difference to start.
 
F

Fletch

Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,107

Wasps chief warns of drastic cuts in rugby union without government help

Stephen Vaughan has warned Premiership clubs will have to make drastic cuts in a struggle for survival unless the government agrees to a compensation proposal
www.theguardian.com
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,108
So when are we expecting some sort of made up grant for CCC again.

How about 10 million to plant flowers around the ground ?
 
Reactions: Deleted member 4439, Earlsdon_Skyblue1, TomRad85 and 5 others

AOM

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,109
jordan210 said:
Another grim read if your a wasp fan. Behind a paywall mind you

Wasps chief warns of drastic cuts in rugby union without government help

Stephen Vaughan has warned Premiership clubs will have to make drastic cuts in a struggle for survival unless the government agrees to a compensation proposal
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

If a vital income stream is cut off for months on end, the emphasis will be on owners to dig even deeper into their pockets.

If they decide that they have had enough of throwing their money down the drain and there is no government support, it would make survival very hard. It would mean nothing was off the table in terms of action that would need to be taken.


Hasn't their owner already been throwing money into a bottomless pit for years?

Very bleak reading for Wasps and rugby in general, and can't see where Wasps are going to get the income from.
At least football has a bigger pull and audience where a club could make some income from ifollow, TV coverage etc, but don't think a casual Wasps fan who just wants a day trip out to the Ricoh would cough up for something like that if available
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,110
jordan210 said:
Another grim read if your a wasp fan. Behind a paywall mind you

Wasps chief warns of drastic cuts in rugby union without government help

Stephen Vaughan has warned Premiership clubs will have to make drastic cuts in a struggle for survival unless the government agrees to a compensation proposal
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

Nah, mate. The Guardian is a free site.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,111
Why should the government help these clubs, there are far more pressing things to help than a few rich men’s play things
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,112
Just like covid presents the UK government with a veil under which to hide economic problems independent of covid, the case is the same for Wasps.

There might be some movement very soon to split the club from the stadium / group structure, possibly off the back of a bond default?
 
Reactions: ccfcchris

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,113
Government funding should be turned down for organisations like wasps that have just turned down large sums of money for political reasons.
 

Peter Billing

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,114
chiefdave said:
If you take that at face value and assume crowds aren't returning anytime soon that would put Wasps on course for losses of something approaching £15-20m before you even consider the additional impact of the exhibition side of things.

And its now less than 20 months until they have to repay or refinance the bond.

Even the most optimistic Wasps fan must have serious concerns.
Click to expand...
jordan210 said:
I need to learn to pay attention !

But looks very grim for wasps.

"Vaughan, the Wasps group chief executive, said that without financial assistance, following the decision to put the return of fans to sports grounds on hold indefinitely, his club would lose £500,000 a month and that all options would have to be on the table, including further wage cuts, to avoid closure."

Even with fans in they did not turn a profit so isn't like having fans it would make a huge difference to start.
Click to expand...

Exactly, they need their own house in order before asking for public money. They're already getting £5.3m in public funds, the furlough scheme, they had £12m in CVC money. Derek Richardson took this punt, he has to address costs first or he puts his hand in his pocket, that's the choice, the public shouldn't put in a penny to otherwise failing businesses.
 
Reactions: ccfcchris
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,115
Peter Billing said:
Exactly, they need their own house in order before asking for public money. They're already getting £5.3m in public funds, the furlough scheme, they had £12m in CVC money. Derek Richardson took this punt, he has to address costs first or he puts his hand in his pocket, that's the choice, the public shouldn't put in a penny to otherwise failing businesses.
Click to expand...
Let’s face it - if this was fisher the telegraph and some of our fans would be going mental - “Gucci clad Joy Sappalla asks for tax payer bail out for private company football club”
 
Reactions: duffer

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,116
jordan210 said:
I need to learn to pay attention !
Click to expand...
You were probably thinking of the, I assume similar, Torygraph one. That's def behind a paywall.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,117
Peter Billing said:
Exactly, they need their own house in order before asking for public money. They're already getting £5.3m in public funds, the furlough scheme, they had £12m in CVC money. Derek Richardson took this punt, he has to address costs first or he puts his hand in his pocket, that's the choice, the public shouldn't put in a penny to otherwise failing businesses.
Click to expand...


£500k pm = £6m

Last year the trading loss was c£14m

They are doing better in the Covid period ?
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,118
oldfiver said:
£500k pm = £6m

Last year the trading loss was c£14m

They are doing better in the Covid period ?
Click to expand...
Unlikely, eh?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,119
oldfiver said:
£500k pm = £6m

Last year the trading loss was c£14m

They are doing better in the Covid period ?
Click to expand...
Seems they're talking about clubs in general losing £500K a month due to covid so you'd have to add that to their existing losses and then also factor in that the conference and exhibition business will have completely collapsed.

You also have to wonder if fans will return as quickly as they do to other sports. We're told Wasps moving wasn't an issue as fans don't have a bond to clubs as you see in football. That being the case a significant chunk of people might decide its not worth the risk.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,120
How much do wasps owe to Richardson ?

Telegraph say last year was around £18m for a loan if he has been plugging more gaps he must be owed in to the £20 odd million. Wonder what his end game will be.

consolidated senior debt was £35.7m im guessing the interest on that will be high. So that would have grown too


Borrowing is

The capital balance of the loan from Wasps Finance Plc was £33.8m (31 December 2018 - £33.8m, 30 June 2019 - £33.8m). The loan is repayable in a lump sum repayment in 2022 and is subject to an interest rate of 6.5%.

The Group has also been provided with a loan of £18.3m (31 December 2018 - £18.4m, 30 June 2019 - £18.3m from D A Richardson.
The balance of the loan from HSBC Plc was £nil (31 December 2018 - £0.1m, 30 June 2019 - £nil). The loan is repayable over a 36-month period and is unsecured.

In the period, the Group has borrowed £0.5m from Close Leasing. The balance at 31 December 2019 was £0.5m (31 December 2018 - £0.3m; 30 June 2019 - £0.05m). The loan is repayable over a 12-month period.

In the period, the Group has borrowed £0.7m in respect of asset finance. The balance at 31 December 2019 was £1.4m (31 December 2018 - £0.7m; 30 June 2019 - £1.0m).
 
Reactions: duffer

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,121
When is their next interest payment and update on the state of accounts due? Thats the next hurdle to get over.

Also have to assume lack of events will mean the valuation of the Ricoh will nosedive given that increased business was the explaination for the way the value surged after Wasps takeover. Any drop will put them in danger of breaching the covenants again.

The key is going to be refinancing the bond. Remember we've still got the economic impact of Brexit, which is increasingly looking like no deal, to come. How likely is it they will be able to get the finance, and even if they do how much is the interest rate going to increase?
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,122
Bridge has put his story on twitter and the city fans are all over him, we are really lucky at the moment not having that huge white elephant.
(The ground not him)
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,123
chiefdave said:
When is their next interest payment and update on the state of accounts due? Thats the next hurdle to get over.

Also have to assume lack of events will mean the valuation of the Ricoh will nosedive given that increased business was the explaination for the way the value surged after Wasps takeover. Any drop will put them in danger of breaching the covenants again.

The key is going to be refinancing the bond. Remember we've still got the economic impact of Brexit, which is increasingly looking like no deal, to come. How likely is it they will be able to get the finance, and even if they do how much is the interest rate going to increase?
Click to expand...

Couple of months away
Expected next coupon payment date*
13 November 2020
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,124
I thought they did accounts every 6 months? If so aren't we due a mid year update sometime soon?
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,125
jordan210 said:
So when are we expecting some sort of made up grant for CCC again.

How about 10 million to plant flowers around the ground ?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I seriously wouldn't put it past the Council coming up with something, even though of course they'd need to be careful of further evidencing their support for Wasps.
 

Peter Billing

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 24, 2020
  • #2,126
Liquid Gold said:
I thought they did accounts every 6 months? If so aren't we due a mid year update sometime soon?
Click to expand...

Maybe in a month or month and a half. It's usually around end of October or early November, depends on the sign off, but that will be the for the 12 months to June-20. The last set in March were the half year, 6 months up to Dec-19.
 
S

Smithy87

New Member
  • Sep 27, 2020
  • #2,127
Liquid Gold said:
Nah, Les Reid invented COVID
Click to expand...

Les has been sacked by observer apparently. hopefully he'll still have access to CCFC info and share what telegraph don't
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 28, 2020
  • #2,128
Unbelievable run of results gonna finish top 4 and likely home semi. Financially may be struggling but can’t argue with the run of results. Maybe wasps and ccfc have brighter times to come
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,129
Sky Blue Pete said:
Unbelievable run of results gonna finish top 4 and likely home semi. Financially may be struggling but can’t argue with the run of results. Maybe wasps and ccfc have brighter times to come
Click to expand...
You can't argue with the results - but you CAN argue that most sides they've met since returning to play have put out much-weakened teams.
That won't happen in the play-offs.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,130
Smithy87 said:
Les has been sacked by observer apparently. hopefully he'll still have access to CCFC info and share what telegraph don't
Click to expand...
Not sure if there hasn't been some industrial action at Bullivant media?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,131
wingy said:
Not sure if there hasn't been some industrial action at Bullivant media?
Click to expand...

I can’t see anything about Les Reid being sacked anywhere, is this just a rumour?

As for Wasps, fair play to them, but their improved on-pitch performance doesn’t make any of their off-pitch shenanigans any less reprehensible, imho.
 
Reactions: clint van damme
D

djbooth

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,132
duffer said:
I can’t see anything about Les Reid being sacked anywhere, is this just a rumour?

As for Wasps, fair play to them, but their improved on-pitch performance doesn’t make any of their off-pitch shenanigans any less reprehensible, imho.
Click to expand...
They were luck last night. They were losing to Harlequins and looking really poor. They only won after harlequins had a man sent off.
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,133
djbooth said:
They were luck last night. They were losing to Harlequins and looking really poor. They only won after harlequins had a man sent off.
Click to expand...

Without wanting to be unfair to them, they’ve had a bit of that. Bath were spectacularly disorganised too, when that game went to uncontested scrums (which is always a farce, imho) - no way Wasps should have won that one either.

Clearly the devil looks after his own.
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm, wingy and shepardo01
D

djbooth

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,134
duffer said:
Without wanting to be unfair to them, they’ve had a bit of that. Bath were spectacularly disorganised too, when that game went to uncontested scrums (which is always a farce, imho) - no way Wasps should have won that one either.

Clearly the devil looks after his own.
Click to expand...
Strange game that one. The second half wasps were more than useless...
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 29, 2020
  • #2,135
Les hasn’t been sacked
 
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