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Wasps downward spiral... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,301
If you read his response he says wasps had the money from the gigs and spent it and then had to refund. Shambles they are very badly run
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,302
Deleted member 5849 said:
Yeah as long as they get interest paid, it's worth sucking it up and being held over a barrell as still, effectively, you're getting a better return than you'd ever get elsewhere.

Of course the other way it could go wrong is if savings interest rates go up substantially.Then the 6.5% isn't so appealing if based on a savagely insecure investment.
Click to expand...

The only reason the May interest was paid because it would be an (almost ) uncorrectable default that the Trustee would have to act on
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,303
Deleted member 5849 said:
Yeah as long as they get interest paid, it's worth sucking it up and being held over a barrell as still, effectively, you're getting a better return than you'd ever get elsewhere.

Of course the other way it could go wrong is if savings interest rates go up substantially.Then the 6.5% isn't so appealing if based on a savagely insecure investment.
Click to expand...

I think my concern would be whether the business will still be running by the time the next interest payment is due, or at least whether it would have sufficient funds to meet the requirement.

If things are heading south there's something to be said for the bondholders recovering what they can now.
 
Reactions: Colin Steins Smile

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,304
duffer said:
I think my concern would be whether the business will still be running by the time the next interest payment is due, or at least whether it would have sufficient funds to meet the requirement.

If things are heading south there's something to be said for the bondholders recovering what they can now.
Click to expand...
Richardson is the ultimate guarantor, he could put his hand in his own pocket for the interest payment I suppose, as it would protect the other £18 m he is owed.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,305
If they've only sold 719 season tickets or whatever how the hell are they paying players and staff, its a business which just can't carry on in its current guise for sure. If Richardson is not putting money and with all their overheads and debts it can't be long before something gives surely.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,306
Is it confirmed only 700 odd season tickets though?
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,307
Nick said:
Is it confirmed only 700 odd season tickets though?
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That's been the consensus from people itk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,308
Nick said:
Is it confirmed only 700 odd season tickets though?
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think the original comment was someone on the wind up but if you go on their website and try and buy a season ticket, you have to create an account so use a burner email, you can see which seats are taken and the 700 doesn't seem too far out to be honest.

Couldn't be bothered to count but there were not many taken at all.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman, AOM and CCFC54321
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2022
  • #6,309
Gynnsthetonic said:
If they've only sold 719 season tickets or whatever how the hell are they paying players and staff, its a business which just can't carry on in its current guise for sure. If Richardson is not putting money and with all their overheads and debts it can't be long before something gives surely.
Click to expand...
It you listen to the average wasps ‘fan’ they all think it’s sunshine and rainbows and just because the owner said we have a ‘strong’ business plan and another twonk says a couple of concerts and the debts paid off.

The truth from reality is astonishing with some of them.

They actually think the debt is simply from covid.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,310
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm, AOM and vow

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,311
Nick said:
Click to expand...
Are they trying to make the players so embarrassed they all leave and they don't have to pay them?
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,312
When is the announcement on the refinancing, is it this week or next, and will it be a likely we're working with our partners for the best outcome for our bondholders.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,313
Brilliant wasps profiling. I’ve been offered tickets for 3 games
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge, Sick Boy, Deleted member 5849 and 5 others

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,314
Grendel said:
Brilliant wasps profiling. I’ve been offered tickets for 3 games
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Where from
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,315
Nick said:
Where from
Click to expand...

A postal mailer that I assume is some kind of business promotion thing - shows specific matches - I assume they are blasting loads out to companies
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,316
Grendel said:
A postal mailer that I assume is some kind of business promotion thing - shows specific matches - I assume they are blasting loads out to companies
Click to expand...

Christ, so literally just a random mailshot?
 
Reactions: AOM

Saddlebrains

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,317
chiefdave said:
think the original comment was someone on the wind up but if you go on their website and try and buy a season ticket, you have to create an account so use a burner email, you can see which seats are taken and the 700 doesn't seem too far out to be honest.

Couldn't be bothered to count but there were not many taken at all.
Click to expand...


Yea i made it up on Twitter see how far it went

Better than i could have planned tbf
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,318
 
Reactions: djr8369, fernandopartridge, Sick Boy and 20 others

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,319
Pedleys? ha
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,320
Gynnsthetonic said:
When is the announcement on the refinancing, is it this week or next, and will it be a likely we're working with our partners for the best outcome for our bondholders.
Click to expand...
They are supposed to be issuing a consent solicitation by the end of August which will basically be asking the bondholders to agree to a change to the terms of the bonds. Doesn’t necessarily mean they will have the refinance in place though: if they did presumably they would redeem the bonds. 75% of holders by value have to vote for the change.

Onlyy 4 more working days for them to issue the document.
 
Reactions: Gynnsthetonic
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,321
Grendel said:
A postal mailer that I assume is some kind of business promotion thing - shows specific matches - I assume they are blasting loads out to companies
Click to expand...

Scan them and post on DW ?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,322
There was a link on their website, might still be there, where literally anyone could put their email address in and get free tickets yet they claim they aren't handing out free tickets like they used to and that's why crowds are down.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,323
Claim the free tickets and obviously don’t go, hopefully it stops somebody getting them and then spending money in the ground, nobody believes their attendance figures anyway.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,324
Nick said:
Christ, so literally just a random mailshot?
Click to expand...

In the shape of a rugby ball to be fair
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,325
chiefdave said:
There was a link on their website, might still be there, where literally anyone could put their email address in and get free tickets yet they claim they aren't handing out free tickets like they used to and that's why crowds are down.
Click to expand...

This is targeted at companies. Its clearly being sent to people off some list and HOB are being invited as "preferred partners"
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,326
Terry Gibson's perm said:
Claim the free tickets and obviously don’t go, hopefully it stops somebody getting them and then spending money in the ground, nobody believes their attendance figures anyway.
Click to expand...
I'd normally agree, but just atm they can't claim figures if not taken up, and te lower the better to make them look unviable.
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

Skybluemichael

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,327
fastcat99: Re bond holdings and votes, see my posts on 30 Oct & 12 Nov 2020 (#139, 144 & 147 above: I was the ONLY Bondholder to ‘attend’ the last Consent Solicitation EGMs, and thus obtain these figures, which were NOT published). First date: a mere 4,065,400 votes were recorded; Stephen Vaughan commented on the ‘broad investor base’ (implying few/no large corporate investors); two weeks later a more significant 11,779,600 - because the Chairman had ‘received instructions in respect of 7,731,600 shares CDIs or in Crest’. Still a massive abstention rate (out of 35million) even on the second, decisive vote. Just putting out these historical facts - obviously there will have been a lot of turnover, possibly concentration, of ownership since then - but we are still a very disparate group, I’m sure Wasps Finance will be ACUTELY aware that if this upcoming CS does not obtain 75% approval, even on an adjourned second count, the pressure on the Trustee to foreclose immediately, and take the Lease out of their hands, will be enormous. That will immediately cost DR millions, and/or force sale of P shares (to our benefit), and quite possibly finish Wasps as a PRL club. So they REALLY have to make every effort to make a case that is more attractive to us than the above scenario (which to me looks equally messy/uncertain/unsatisfactory for Bondholders as everyone else). Anyone who needs to recover capital urgently should realise that relisting is the only likely near-term route (Btw it’s confusing and inaccurate to refer to selling at a loss on the open market as a ‘haircut’; - that’s when bondholders AGREE to a specific devaluation of their Security across the board)
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,328
is it 75% approval of those who vote or 75% of the total bondholders as that would make a significant difference.

From looking at that board a lot of people who use companies such as interactive investor won't even know this is happening so won't vote at all. Unless of course those companies can vote on the bondholders behalf without instruction but that seems unlikely.

So if you then assume a large percentage won't be aware or just won't vote then getting 25% who don't approve seems far more likely.
 

Skybluemichael

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,329
Yeah that’s my take on it, whatever wasps offer I don’t think they will get enough votes. Will the trustee act or will they need money from the bond holders first?
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,330
Terry Gibson's perm said:
View attachment 25969
Click to expand...
BRILLIANT
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,331
CCFC54321 said:
BRILLIANT
Click to expand...


I did see that a couple of wasp idiots have given his business a bad review so city fans have been giving him good reviews.
 
Reactions: CCFC54321

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,332
Terry Gibson's perm said:
I did see that a couple of wasp idiots have given his business a bad review so city fans have been giving him good reviews.
Click to expand...

Where is it?
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,333
clint van damme said:
Where is it?
Click to expand...


Saw it on Facebook it’s at Pedley’s.
 
Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
Reactions: CCFC54321

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,334
From bondholders Forum

a success fee only solicitor would solve the problem of being organised and providing funds. Yes we would lose part of our claim but I think that would be preferable to being given the runaround by Richardson. Others have posted serious questions about how some of the bond money has been siphoned off, outside the envelope of the Wasps Group, and hence not now available to repay us.

I can't help feeling that insolvency may be the best option for us, unless a very sensible offer is forthcoming. By sensible I mean one that we like and squeezes as much as possible out of the business(es). At the end of the day I don't give a fig about the survival of Wasps rugby or where they play. I want all of my money, and failing that the maximum amount that can be recovered. Everyone else can go to hell. Demolish the stadium and build houses, anything will be considered.
 
Reactions: djr8369

Nick

Administrator
  • Aug 24, 2022
  • #6,335
clint van damme said:
Where is it?
Click to expand...
It's exhall by the car dealership and where black horse used to be.
 
Reactions: vow and clint van damme
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