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Wasps downward spiral... (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,866
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
If you’ve got insider info - which way i they expecting to go with this? They going bust or are we getting our hopes up?
Click to expand...

Imagine the PR disaster for A Street if the WMCA give this the green light.
 
Reactions: Kneeza and CCFC54321

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,867
For a Mayor who is struggling to get any recognition for the organization he runs, this could be the nail in the coffin for anyone from Coventry for the WMCA.
 
Reactions: Kneeza

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,868
I guess this what happens when you force an organization onto people, then not giving the people a say on how they want to be governed.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,869
Ann Lucas said in her reply to joining the WMCA, I believe, that Martin Reeves could not find any reason why we can't join the WMCA without a vote, or words to that general expression. I believe this is contrary to what Demsoc said about the process.

Well, I believe, I can't find a reason why we shouldn't give Martin Reeves due process and then sack him, or a change of Chief Executive because of this advice.
 
Last edited: Jun 17, 2022
Reactions: duffer

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,870
Philosorapter said:
Whoa, I am seeing in triple vision, am I drunk?
Click to expand...
I think what he's trying to imply is that they are making a statement at the end of the month
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,871
I suspect we will be moving grounds again very soon
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,872
Grendel said:
I suspect we will be moving grounds again very soon
Click to expand...
Don't we have 9 years left on the lease
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,873
9
oldskyblue58 said:
So what do we know

Interesting that acl companies are the only ones with charges from compass. Wasps holdings and finance don't.

Each of acl , acl 2006 wasps holdings and wasps finance secure the bond

Insolvency value of the lease would be well below current value.

Wasps finance the biggest creditor of acl. Acl owes wasps finance, then it is wasps finance that owes the bondholders.

Do we know where all the assets currently are. It is completely legal transfer assets around group companies especially if the security not affected

Accounts for ACL acl2006 & iec not filed and all could still be struck off but the Crown would seize any assets and any creditors would likely challenge the striking off- so not going to be allowed to happen

Default notice issued by bond trustees which is 30 day notice of action.

All assets are revalued in an insolvency and sold to the highest or preferred bidder. Liabilities are paid off at a discount.

Wasps not acl as far as has been said have applied for 13m assistance from WMCA.

These are serious financial people involved in this. They are not stupid. There is a plan.

Just thoughts it might not mean anything. Could easily be completely wrong I don't know.
Click to expand...

If the Bonds are not paid it all collapses because of guarantees etc.

It would be interesting to see who is raisng the new finance - WF or WASPs Holdings or ACL. But if the suggestion is the £13m is not for the Bond Holders - what is this for?
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,874
oldfiver said:
But if the suggestion is the £13m is not for the Bond Holders - what is this for?
Click to expand...
They promise it is for repairs on the stadium, and they promise that none will find its way into financing the bond.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,875
Grendel said:
I suspect we will be moving grounds again very soon
Click to expand...

Why?
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,876
Dubai-Dodger said:
Right now we don’t know what the £13m is for (or certainly I don’t). You throw the definition of ‘state aid‘ around to sensationalise it but have the rugby club received state aid or is that just your interpretation ?

Yes you could argue they are living beyond their means but you could say that about any outfit that has received funding for something unrelated to the playing side.

It’s interesting how many have now jumped on the cheating topic because of a reported £13m funding application but not before (if I’ve missed it before then I apologise)

You consider it ‘almost’ cheating…. the rights and wrongs of how the stadium business is run is unrelated to the players …. I accept I will be in the minority here with that view ….. so be it
Click to expand...


State is government. The regional authority is local government. You can argue the semantics of that all you want.

I raised the issue about 'cheating' If people jump on the bandwagon that's up to them. Complain to them not me.

I know the game of rugby and how it works, you may not like that as you seem to take the view that us football fans don't understand your game, but accept it, and that I have a good idea on how Wasps are and will be viewed, certainly by other fans that I know.
 
Reactions: torchomatic
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,877
shepardo01 said:
They promise it is for repairs on the stadium, and they promise that none will find its way into financing the bond.
Click to expand...

I think Mr Street won't get caught with that one.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,878
oldfiver said:
Why?
Click to expand...

If the money is awarded I can’t see Sisu not taking some action
 
Reactions: djr8369

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,879
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
If you’ve got insider info - which way i they expecting to go with this? They going bust or are we getting our hopes up?
Click to expand...
Im sure parties spin it how in a way that shows them in the best light. Steven Vaughan said funding in place and I assume the announcement will be in line with that
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,880
Grendel said:
I suspect we will be moving grounds again very soon
Click to expand...
What makes you say that?
 
D

Dubai-Dodger

Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,881
Moff said:
State is government. The regional authority is local government. You can argue the semantics of that all you want.

I raised the issue about 'cheating' If people jump on the bandwagon that's up to them. Complain to them not me.

I know the game of rugby and how it works, you may not like that as you seem to take the view that us football fans don't understand your game, but accept it, and that I have a good idea on how Wasps are and will be viewed, certainly by other fans that I know.
Click to expand...

State aid is not simply any government funding. Funding originating from a government entity is not always considered state aid. Reality is it doesn’t matter it’s £13m coming from somewhere which I have agreed is concerning.

I’m well aware you are familiar with rugby, I’ve seen your posts before and certainly wasn’t trying to suggest otherwise.

Im quite sure some of your Saints mates do view Wasps badly, nothing new there, that was the case long before the Coventry move.
 
Reactions: Moff

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,882
Evo1883 said:
He's a canley lad aswell , his circle of friends are all nice lads tbh
Click to expand...
Oh shit sorry didn’t realise it was Canley. Sorry if I offended you sir
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,883
Grendel said:
If the money is awarded I can’t see Sisu not taking some action
Click to expand...
I’d imagine the WMCA would be more competent than CCC so the likelyhood is that it would definitely be above board
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #4,884
Liquid Gold said:
Oh shit sorry didn’t realise it was Canley. Sorry if I offended you sir
Click to expand...
Evo is from the other side of the track I think
 

mds

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,885
Did SISU play the long game perfectly, pushed and pushed with all the legal procedings ending up at the EU to then suddenly drop them using Warwick Uni to mask it.
They are a business built around money i wonder if they knew something, maybe inside info on the Wasps finances.

Whether they did or didnt IDGAF as long as Wasps end up in London where they started. Fuck em corrupt bunch of cnuts
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,886
fernandopartridge said:
Evo is from the other side of the track I think
Click to expand...

Something, something, something: dark side.
 
Reactions: vow

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,887
Are all the Unite councillors still barred from the Union. I need something tonight to cheers me up.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,888
Say what you will about Simon Gilbert - but the guy has extremely thick skin. Takes a battering from us, and now taking one from Wasps - guy really makes light of it
 
Reactions: Kneeza, AOM, ccfcchris and 3 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,889
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Say what you will about Simon Gilbert - but the guy has extremely thick skin. Takes a battering from us, and now taking one from Wasps - guy really makes light of it
Click to expand...
Nice bloke too
 

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,890
How does the £13m comply with competition law or illegal state aid?
Asking for a friend
 
Reactions: You'll Never Beat McPake and Peter Billing Eyes
P

Peter Billing Eyes

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,891
If the stadium does require 13 million in reparations (and the defects have been defined as structural), I wonder if that offers any leverage towards tearing up the rental agreement and moving again until the proverbial dust settles? It’s not something I would necessarily agree with but can see why this may be something to consider.
It would also be a tall ask finding a landlord with space for 12k> season ticket holders. Just putting this out there for debate….
 
Last edited: Jun 18, 2022

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,892
Philosorapter said:
Imagine the PR disaster for A Street if the WMCA give this the green light.
Click to expand...

Let's hope he doesn't adopt the mantra of his doppelganger the Wealdstone Raider, 'you want some, I'll give it to ya'.
 
Reactions: vow
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,893
Grendel said:
If the money is awarded I can’t see Sisu not taking some action
Click to expand...


On what grounds? If they do then many others will as well. But I suspect the counter argument from WASPs would be they should make their own applications
 

Covkid1968#

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,894
If karma was working then the outcome of all of this would be CCFC owning the arena and CRFC being given a Premiership share.
[/QUOTE]
If Carlsberg did outcomes…….
 
Reactions: Kneeza, duffer, CCFC54321 and 1 other person
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,895
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Say what you will about Simon Gilbert - but the guy has extremely thick skin. Takes a battering from us, and now taking one from Wasps - guy really makes light of it
Click to expand...


Good response….
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, ccfcchris, MalcSB and 2 others

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,896
mds said:
Did SISU play the long game perfectly, pushed and pushed with all the legal procedings ending up at the EU to then suddenly drop them using Warwick Uni to mask it.
They are a business built around money i wonder if they knew something, maybe inside info on the Wasps finances.

Whether they did or didnt IDGAF as long as Wasps end up in London where they started. Fuck em corrupt bunch of cnuts
Click to expand...
They are not that good. Maybe they learned something about trying to stress companies like ACL? A complete failure that put us into years of angst.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,897
CCFC54321 said:

Good response….
Click to expand...

I've definitely given him a kicking over the years but fair play to him for all of this and the good grace he's taking it in (although I'll never forgive him for the book announcement hype )
 
Reactions: torchomatic, shepardo01, CCFC54321 and 1 other person

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,898
Peter Billing Eyes said:
If the stadium does require 13 million in reparations (and the defects have been defined as structural), I wonder if that offers any leverage towards tearing up the rental agreement and moving again until the proverbial dust settles? It’s not something I would necessarily agree with but can see why this may be something to consider.
It would also be a tall ask finding a landlord with space for 12k> season ticket holders. Just putting this out there for debate….
Click to expand...
We should never leave Coventry again. I’m also certain the fanbase would be decimated. A bit like last time really. I can’t see any reason to think 12k season ticket holders would follow.
 
Reactions: Peter Billing Eyes

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,899
I am sure the people of Henley in Arden will be delighted if Wasps get bailed out as well.
 
Reactions: vow, torchomatic, no_loyalty and 4 others

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 18, 2022
  • #4,900
Peter Billing Eyes said:
If the stadium does require 13 million in reparations (and the defects have been defined as structural), I wonder if that offers any leverage towards tearing up the rental agreement and moving again until the proverbial dust settles? It’s not something I would necessarily agree with but can see why this may be something to consider.
It would also be a tall ask finding a landlord with space for 12k> season ticket holders. Just putting this out there for debate….
Click to expand...

I think if the stadium had serious structural issues, we wouldn't get a safety certificate for all or part of it (like Blues, perhaps). But I couldn't imagine it's that serious.

I also can't see any reason why CCFC would want to break their sub-lease at the moment.

Similarly, even if Wasps end up losing the head lease to either the council or the bondholders, in law I believe the sub-lease remains in force.

In any case, why would the new landlord want to kick out a paying tenant even if they could?

Personally, I don't see any great risk to CCFC from Wasps woes.

Maybe SISU get the 250-year head lease on the cheap as a result of all this, or maybe they don't, but I think we're safe with the remainder of the current sub-lease at least.
 
Reactions: Peter Billing Eyes and Flying Fokker
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