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Wasps downward spiral... (8 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,551
Imagine the west Midlands authority bailing out a failing business ??

They wouldn't normally would they

Let them fucking die already
 
Reactions: vow, Moff and MAFF

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,552
Sky Blue Harry H said:
To be fair, even if they annoyingly got it, it would surely be tied to development
Click to expand...
Even if it is for work on the stadium, and not paying off debt, why should public money be used? This wouldn't be an option for any other business.

The whole thing about them getting millions to put a new frontage on never sat well with me, surely they won't get more money thrown at them.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,553
Sky Blue Harry H said:
To be fair, even if they annoyingly got it, it would surely be tied to development You'd think it would be hard to offset existing costs against any grant. Certainly not playing budgets etc, At the very best I can only see it kicking the can down the road for a couple of seasons at best. Not sure how it leaves them re: bondholders (my limited knowledge!)
Click to expand...
You're right that it will only kick the can down the road but that is what would make even more unconscionable for the council to spend taxpayers money on it.
 
Reactions: LastGarrison, Evo1883 and duffer

samccov1987

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,554
Can’t say I’m too clued up but the WMCA surely cant fund the wasps rugby business so then the money would have to be spent on the stadium?

Is the stadium in such disrepair that they couldn’t secure lending against the leasehold to pay back the bond?

Any lending towards the stadium also only helps out in enabling them to refinance but longer term the financial issues don’t go away.
 

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,555
chiefdave said:
Even if it is for work on the stadium, and not paying off debt, why should public money be used? This wouldn't be an option for any other business.

The whole thing about them getting millions to put a new frontage on never sat well with me, surely they won't get more money thrown at them.
Click to expand...

I agree - although where do CCFC stand in terms of rent? If there are building costs (assuming Wasps don't get this grant). are we liable to pay more rent, contribute to costs? Don't know the answer - just curious. Of course, I'd love them to wither on the vine - and suspicious of Cov City Council wanting to die on the hill with them.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,556
The bondholders are constantly talking about the value of the stadium being able to pay back the bonds if it comes to it.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just the paper value? It is highly unlikely anybody would pay £35m for it on the open market, last time it sold it was in a considerably better state and only fetched £6m.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,557
samccov1987 said:
Is the stadium in such disrepair that they couldn’t secure lending against the leasehold to pay back the bond?
Click to expand...
This thought crossed my mind before todays news. Was there an agreement to lend the money but then when due diligence, and a valuation on the ground, was done issues have come to light. They're trying to borrow right to the limit of the stadium previous valuation, if there's significant work required that would enter the equation when looking at security.
Liquid Gold said:
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just the paper value? It is highly unlikely anybody would pay £35m for it on the open market, last time it sold it was in a considerably better state and only fetched £6m.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. If the stadium is valued at £35m but needs £20m in repairs then best case scenario someone is paying £15m and the bondholders are screwed. But of course to get that value it needs someone prepared to offer that amount and that is far from guaranteed.
 

ovduk78

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,558
No opinion from our dodgy dubai friend yet?
 
Reactions: vow, no_loyalty, Sick Boy and 1 other person

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,559
More worrying no comment from Grendel has he been silenced by the wasps mafia
 
Reactions: CCFC54321 and MAFF

FulltimeWum

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,560
Can't they go and play at redeveloped stadium?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,561
The likelihood wasps will ever be able to pay it back is next to zero.

They can't be helped out surely
 
Reactions: The CableGuy, Gynnsthetonic and ccfc1234

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,562
Popped onto the Wasps forum a little while ago - and zilch. Probably somebody (the usual two) may have posted by now. Will have a look!
 

SBS

Active Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,563
Is it worth emailing my local councillor to object, or is that a waste of time?!
 
Reactions: vow and ccfc1234
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,564
chiefdave said:
This has to be a non-starter. If they allow this doesn't it open the floodgates for any other struggling business to demand money?
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Not just them, but every sports team in the area will spend cash, then demand a loan.

Guess that'd mean we're keeping Hamer after all, eh
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve, Sky Blue Pete, mr_monkey and 1 other person

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,565
Sky Blue Harry H said:
Popped onto the Wasps forum a little while ago - and zilch. Probably somebody (the usual two) may have posted by now. Will have a look!
Click to expand...
They're now blaming Gilbert as he's some sort of SISU plant trying to unsettle Wasps. Yet another shining example of Wasps fans having zero knowledge of recent history.
 
Reactions: AOM, vow, lordy_87 and 3 others

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,566
Deleted member 5849 said:
Not just them, but every sports team in the area will spend cash, then demand a loan.
Click to expand...
Can't remember the exact quote, or even who was the council leader at the time and said it, but I can distinctly remember the council saying they wouldn't consider helping CCFC while they were losing millions every year, something about needing to get their own house in order first.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,567
To state the obvious, £13mil is quite a lot to have lost. With not much chance of seeing that money again, it'd be a non-starter anyway... and I assume they're having to try this, as 'normal' moneylenders wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
 
Reactions: duffer
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,568
chiefdave said:
Can't remember the exact quote, or even who was the council leader at the time and said it, but I can distinctly remember the council saying they wouldn't consider helping CCFC while they were losing millions every year, something about needing to get their own house in order first.
Click to expand...
It was John Mutton.

tbf, it's a different authority. I'd have assumed it makes it less likely, in actual fact, to get a loan from them, as there are more sports clubs who'd then like one!

Wonder if Birmingham City need £20mil to repair St Andrews...?
 
Reactions: vow, AOM, duffer and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,569
Incidentally, I assume this is the precedent they'd be pointing to:

Football club secures £14m bailout despite rent arrears

A founding Premier League football club has secured a £14 million loan from a local council in order to secure the future of its stadium
bridgingandcommercial.co.uk
 
Reactions: duffer

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,570
Terry Gibson's perm said:
More worrying no comment from Grendel has he been silenced by the wasps mafia
Click to expand...
Never mind Grendel…. Will we see the resurfacing of Italia to try some PR moves?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,571
Deleted member 5849 said:
Wonder if Birmingham City need £20mil to repair St Andrews...?
Click to expand...
This is a good point. St Andrews is fucked and they are broke, if Wasps get given money you can be certain they will want a hand out as well. Isn't there a plan for some fairly major works at Villa as well? Sure they wouldn't mind the taxpayer picking up the bill.
 

mr_monkey

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,572
chiefdave said:
They're now blaming Gilbert as he's some sort of SISU plant trying to unsettle Wasps. Yet another shining example of Wasps fans having zero knowledge of recent history.
Click to expand...

The actual fuck
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,573
I'm annoyed cos feel like they will be given it!
 
Reactions: shepardo01

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,574
chiefdave said:
They're now blaming Gilbert as he's some sort of SISU plant trying to unsettle Wasps. Yet another shining example of Wasps fans having zero knowledge of recent history.
Click to expand...
wow
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,575
Deleted member 5849 said:
Incidentally, I assume this is the precedent they'd be pointing to:

Football club secures £14m bailout despite rent arrears

A founding Premier League football club has secured a £14 million loan from a local council in order to secure the future of its stadium
bridgingandcommercial.co.uk
Click to expand...
that was to acl and not ccfc though who apart from a rental agreement were separate
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,576
David O'Day said:
that was to acl and not ccfc though who apart from a rental agreement were separate
Click to expand...
And ACL was 50% owned by the council so they could argue they were protecting their investment. That's not the case now.
 
Reactions: ccfc1234
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,577
David O'Day said:
that was to acl and not ccfc though who apart from a rental agreement were separate
Click to expand...
Yeah - it’s referred to as a publicly funded asset, it isn’t anymore. Besides they’ll get it, Boris and his chums are all over protecting rugby
 
D

Dubai-Dodger

Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,578
ovduk78 said:
No opinion from our dodgy dubai friend yet?
Click to expand...

Dodgy ? ..... Never

Some will be shocked to know that this concerns me as much as most of you..... not good reading whatever side of the fence you sit on.

Borrowing money / getting free money (whatever it turns out to be) is concerning especially given the current financial climate but it would be interesting to know what exactly its for and what WMCA can loan / give money for it must be a fairly tight criteria ?

Of course lots of speculation but either way concerning !
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,579
9
Terry Gibson's perm said:
More worrying no comment from Grendel has he been silenced by the wasps mafia
Click to expand...

Probably in conference with his local Councillor and Lord Mayor
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,580
SBS said:
Is it worth emailing my local councillor to object, or is that a waste of time?!
Click to expand...
Local MP and head of the Council. Will not do any harm
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,581
Just can't see this being labelled as a straight bail-out. Going to be some new project that is overvalued. Building social housing on one of the car parks
 
Reactions: vow

ccfc1234

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,582
Sisu need to be watching developments like a hawk.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Skybluemichael

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,583
I've just had a good look around the WMCA website and read one of their investment reports.

The lending they do looks like infrastructure, housing, green projects, brownfield development, etc. etc.

On the face of it, it looks well governed, very low risk, and turns a profit. I can't see them loaning just to keep Wasps afloat, and they don't loan without security.

It has to be related to the stadium, I'd think, maybe so that Wasps can get refinancing over the line.

To me though, especially given how late in the day it is on the bonds, it looks like a real 'Hail Mary'. If private investors won't touch it, I'd be surprised if Wasps can convince the WMCA to invest. You never know though....
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve, Moff and Deleted member 5849
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,584
ccfc1234 said:
Sisu need to be watching developments like a hawk.
Click to expand...
Judicial Review 3 incoming
 

no_loyalty

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #4,585
ccfc1234 said:
Local MP and head of the Council. Will not do any harm
Click to expand...

Get a petition on the go?
 
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