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Wasps downward spiral... (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 16, 2022
  • #3,606
Skyblueweeman said:
Life, mate....I'd love to while away the hours on SBT like many on here but with two kids under 4 and a new (ish) business to keep moving forward, I have less time to post. Still pop in now and then though!

Yep, that's a good point actually. Their offering appears to be dwindling with time...I'd assume apathy in the area is increasing whilst interest wanes and the success on the pitch hasn't materialised like they would've hoped.

I always thought that the relative success of their move, would be dependant on instant success which would then be built on. It's been pleasing to see that that couldn't be further from the truth.

In my business, I work with professional sports clubs. I've approached all relevant EPL, EFL, National League, FAWSL, FAW Championship, Rugby Premiership and Championship Rugby clubs with a view to working with them. Bar one. No prizes for guessing who.
Click to expand...

The majority of the revenue is tied up with non Rugby business and the lease value I assume is accurate so its worth £60 million to Richardson - The rugby club costs are clearly a massive problem but I suppose they can to an extent be adjusted - there seems no correlation with crowds and success anyway - its a problem business but I cannot see the Holding Company moving anywhere
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • May 16, 2022
  • #3,607
Grendel said:
The majority of the revenue is tied up with non Rugby business and the lease value I assume is accurate so its worth £60 million to Richardson - The rugby club costs are clearly a massive problem but I suppose they can to an extent be adjusted - there seems no correlation with crowds and success anyway - its a problem business but I cannot see the Holding Company moving anywhere
Click to expand...

That's fair. Doesn't stop me smiling when I see how they're doing/not doing.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • May 16, 2022
  • #3,608
Terry Gibson's perm said:
Should be enough to get him some freebies.
Click to expand...
And a free kit….
 
Reactions: duffer
F

Fletch

Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,609
Trading in the bond has been cancelled at the request of Wasps Finance. Is this normal as the redemption date has passed. Until they are paid off, I’d have thought there was still a market for them, although potentially bond holders cashing in for what they can get. Not a good look though.
 

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SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,610
More than mild concern from bond holders on ADVFN. Could potentially see the bond default very soon by what I’m reading.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,611
Fletch said:
Trading in the bond has been cancelled at the request of Wasps Finance. Is this normal as the redemption date has passed. Until they are paid off, I’d have thought there was still a market for them, although potentially bond holders cashing in for what they can get. Not a good look though.
Click to expand...
so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,612
chiefdave said:
so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.
Click to expand...


So the first three interest payments came directly from bondholders investment and now the final payment and investment monies not been paid

Hmmmm
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,613
There seems to be strife with the bondholders. Some look like they're getting ready to kick off.
 

FulltimeWum

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,614
Where are they complaining?
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,615
I wouldn’t care if the investors lost everything greedy bastards.
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,616
FulltimeWum said:
Where are they complaining?
Click to expand...

ADVFN

uk.advfn.com
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,617
Terry Gibson's perm said:
I wouldn’t care if the investors lost everything greedy bastards.
Click to expand...

Entertainment value is high in all this.
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

Nick

Administrator
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,618
Telegraph should be all over it.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,619
Nick said:
Telegraph should be all over it.
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Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow
 
Reactions: mr_monkey

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,620
Gynnsthetonic said:
Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow
Click to expand...
wasps allow investors to keep historic souvenirs
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,621
Would be interesting to know how much they are borrowing maybe they are getting a bit more to help with running costs.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,622
Imagine if it were Sisu swindling investors
 
Last edited: May 18, 2022
Reactions: Sick Boy and duffer
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,623
Bobby B will be on the hot line this afternoon to Richardson “if you give me another free kit and tickets I’ll in return write a lovely article in the Coventry telegraph about how you have looked after the bond holders and how you have sold 32,000 season tickets next season.”
 
Reactions: mr_monkey and PUSB-We_are_going_up

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,624
Esoterica said:
Wonder if this coincides with the increased visibility of Joy around the CBS. Just keeps popping up outside Richardson's window:

Click to expand...
As I understand it they still refuse to meet in person
 
Last edited: May 17, 2022
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,625
Getting the insect poison ready for fumigation


 
Reactions: AOM, mr_monkey, vow and 2 others

ccfcchris

Well-Known Member
  • May 17, 2022
  • #3,626
They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.
 
Reactions: CCFC54321, duffer and PUSB-We_are_going_up

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,627
Interest payments have now landed with bond holders so likelihood of default has been reduced. However, I think from reading that if the bond holders are not repaid within 30 days of the maturity date that could be considered a default - wouldn’t expect anything to come of it.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,628
ccfcchris said:
They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.
Click to expand...

Bitter.

I like it.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,629
ccfcchris said:
They are not going bust anytime soon, but I hope this is death by a thousand cuts as a Coventry City fan.
It is the only way they should die.
Click to expand...
I just can't see how they can last, they're losing in the region of 10m a year with 4k-5k paying spectators, their London based fans can't be bothered anymore and over the years that fanbase will just dwindle.
 
Reactions: Moff, vow, ccfcchris and 1 other person
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,630
SBAndy said:
Interest payments have now landed with bond holders so likelihood of default has been reduced. However, I think from reading that if the bond holders are not repaid within 30 days of the maturity date that could be considered a default - wouldn’t expect anything to come of it.
Click to expand...

Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments in the meantime. I’m reminded of the quote in Trainspotting

‘We can’t even find a decent civilisation to be colonised by’
 
Reactions: vow and duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,631
chiefdave said:
so if you've got bonds you haven't got your money back and you now can't sell them. I would laugh but I suspect a lot of the bonds are held by fans rather than investors who can't afford to potentially lose this money.
Click to expand...

Fair point. In fact if you divide it by their average attendance I think they're in the hole for a million apiece.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,632
Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it
 
Reactions: AOM and Kneeza
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,633
Gynnsthetonic said:
I just can't see how they can last, they're losing in the region of 10m a year with 4k-5k paying spectators, their London based fans can't be bothered anymore and over the years that fanbase will just dwindle.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Unless there’s some dramatic changes the model doesn’t appear to work. It’s all well and good owning a ground but if youre having to pay 6.5%* pa (£2m) just to service interest on the debt with dwindling crowds/match day income then you’re going to struggle. The only things I can think of that can help dig them out if this mess is external investment, large non sport events/gigs and sponsorship (not sure what CBS are paying ?)


*could increase in future
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,634
There's some suggestion on that ADVFN board that there will only be part payment in the near future with the rest promised at a later day. Surely that's not going to happen, the debt is due now you can't just say we'll pay it when we've got it!

Also questions on there around if they are trading insolently given they have had debts fall due which they are currently unable to pay.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,635
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments
Click to expand...
Wasn't that even mentioned in the prospectus, something like there will be no problems paying the interest because we're borrowing the money for that and ring fencing it.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,636
Liquid Gold said:
Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it
Click to expand...
Let's hope Birmingham Council will welcome them, could it not be that they are waiting until the end of the season (June 4th) until they decide what the future holds.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,637
Gynnsthetonic said:
Let's hope Birmingham Council will welcome them, could it not be that they are waiting until the end of the season (June 4th) until they decide what the future holds.
Click to expand...

The Birmingham thing hadn't even crossed my mind. It'd be progress of a kind I suppose, though they'd still be a bit too close for my liking and I'd much prefer they went back down south towards their genuine supporter base. (I notice that Brian O'Driscoll still calls them London Wasps!).

Anyhow, I remember one excuse for them pitching up here was that as a club they are 'nomadic'. Given that, technically shouldn't they have fecked off by now?
 
Reactions: Kneeza and vow
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,638
Gynnsthetonic said:
Bobby Bridge will put his spin on it somehow
Click to expand...

Interest payments have been received by some
Liquid Gold said:
Best thing we can do to hurt them is just stay in the Championship.

Casual fans will come to us over them and our more embittered fans will forgive ownership issues for decent football.

They just haven't got the crowds here.

I bet if they could dump the arena to clear their debts and move to the Alexandra stadium they'd be up for it
Click to expand...
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,639
Rumour has it they have - allegedly- talked to Birmingham CC !!
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2022
  • #3,640
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Some of the comments suggest they were using some of the bond money itself to pay off the interest payments in the meantime. I’m reminded of the quote in Trainspotting

‘We can’t even find a decent civilisation to be colonised by’
Click to expand...

It is in the prospectus- first 3 interest payments retained from bond receipts
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue
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