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Wasps current finances & hope (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter oldskyblue58
  • Start date Nov 19, 2017
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,471
Certainly not good news. continued losses but there are positive things they can point to. I am not going to analyse in great detail, just general points

- turnover is up compared to the first 6 months of the previous financial year by 400k. remains on course to match the previous year based on figures to 31/12/18
- cost of sales continues to increase mainly due to wage cost pressures and an increase in food & drink costs. Could exceed the 2018 accounts figure. Wage costs are a major concern for all clubs
- admin costs seem to be on course to be less than the full year to 30/06/2018
- no exceptional costs this time but there is an exceptional profit of 97k
- the new deal seems to have dropped the profit share element due to Compass or Delaware by 0.5m
- Loss 4.9m cannot be described as good or positive
- this is a period of restructuring due to the switch from Compass to Delaware so things may be set to improve under the new arrangement time will tell
- the Wasps performance on the pitch is going to damage any improvement
- fixed assets pretty much the same as at 30/06/2018 but revaluation of lease due this month
- Current assets are down 1.5m so overall total assets are down 1.4m compared to 30/06/2018
- They have had to pay off the Compass deal in this period by buying it out £6.8m that has been written off against reserves (not P&L acc). It wont reoccur
- loans in total are actually down by 470k compared to 30/06/2018
- current liabilities are down from 21m 30/06/2018 to 15.8m 31/12/2018 it is the inability to pay current liabilities that causes many insolvencies
- there are some big movements in respect of deferred income and i assume that's to do with the delaware deal
- despite all this the group is 1.4m cash flow positive in the period after buying out compass and spending 1.2m on assets
- the amount owed to richardson has actually gone down since 30/06/2018
- total liabilities are now £10m more than total assets
- these are not audited accounts
- the deal for CVC gets paid out since these figures and will be included in the year end accounts
 
Last edited: Mar 27, 2019

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,472
oldfiver said:
It does say "attendance" not "sales"
Click to expand...

I don't mean sales, I mean the attendances that they publish.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,473
Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,474
CCFC54321 said:
Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?
Click to expand...
Maybe HMRC should ask for the VAT on ticket sales for the claimed attendance.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,475
CCFC54321 said:
Why don’t they simply put down they have 33,000 every week and get the bullshit over and done with.

We all know the fabricated 19,000 gates are made up with free tickets plus free children. It’s simply trying to keep face and not publish the gates are dipping.

I’m sure the auditors will want them to declare ‘Paying customers’?
Click to expand...

actually the auditors wouldn't there is no statutory requirement to do so for the accounts. So long as the strategic report refers to attendance (which the records back up) then that's all that is required by the auditors, and only then because the directors refer to it in the first place.

The paying customers would of course have to be all reflected in the accounting records
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,476
I said ages ago that the pre Christmas bumper crowd was for a specific purpose. It's to inflate the half year average gate.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,477
Interesting that the risk mitigation for the Arena and IEC is long term contracts. It doesn't really fit with the unwillingness to talk to CCFC does it?

Costs still going up despite the clear cost cutting measures.

Richardson put another £4.4m in 2018
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 27, 2019
  • #1,478
Lol, his favourite football team must be Leeds United
Accounts are one thing but in my experience a better indicator is what the club is signalling in terms of its activities. To that end we have a new training facility in the pipeline, we continue to sign high end players and we are investing in and around the stadium. For me, financially, there are more good signs than bad. I wouldn't get hung up on the accounts.
Click to expand...
 
Reactions: vow, Brighton Sky Blue and lordsummerisle

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #1,479
fernandopartridge said:
Lol, his favourite football team must be Leeds United
Click to expand...

Yeah, the training facilities which still hasn't got as far as a planning application as far as I know?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 28, 2019
  • #1,480
lordsummerisle said:
Yeah, the training facilities which still hasn't got as far as a planning application as far as I know?
Click to expand...

That's the one. The application was being finalised according to the CT on 10th December 2018. It must be with the same architects practice as the one Tim Fisher commissioned.
 
Reactions: duffer
C

crowsnest

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,481
Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.
 
Reactions: duffer

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,482
crowsnest said:
Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.
Click to expand...

Their new training ground is going to be next to our new stadium.
 
Reactions: duffer

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,483
I don’t know why anybody would be surprised. They can’t afford to build anything.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,484
crowsnest said:
Planning confirmed for 2 more years at Broadstreet. That should go down well with the players.
Click to expand...
But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,485
chiefdave said:
But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:
Click to expand...

It is quite funny, I bet if they were asked about the Higgs Training Centre they would have absolutely no idea about any of it.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,486
chiefdave said:
But on the Wasps forum they claim there can't be any issues at Wasps as they're about to move in to their new state of the art training ground ompus:
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's sisu's fault somehow.

I wonder what the makeup of that forum is. When they moved here do you think their nice quiet rugby forum was invaded by people raving about sisu all of a sudden.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,487
This is the application form: https://planningportal.rugby.gov.uk...ns/R19-0415/ApplicationFormNoPersonalData.pdf

States they have had pre-discussions with Warwick District Council over the Leamington site and will submit the application later this year.

I think this might actually happen tbh, suspect the windfall from CVC will be used and that the new training ground will be combined with the Ricoh to try and secure the next bond.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,488
fernandopartridge said:
This is the application form: https://planningportal.rugby.gov.uk/fastweb_upload/Planning Scanned Applications/R19-0415/ApplicationFormNoPersonalData.pdf

States they have had pre-discussions with Warwick District Council over the Leamington site and will submit the application later this year.

I think this might actually happen tbh, suspect the windfall from CVC will be used and that the new training ground will be combined with the Ricoh to try and secure the next bond.
Click to expand...
If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,489
Liquid Gold said:
If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.
Click to expand...

Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,490
fernandopartridge said:
Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!
Click to expand...
If they keep making losses though there is going to become a point where cash flow becomes a problem. The debt might be secured but it's estimated up to half of Richardson personal money is invested into them, he can't fund losses forever.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,491
fernandopartridge said:
Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!
Click to expand...
Valuing the Ricoh at £70m with a shitty rugby team as the only regular attraction. Makes sense
 
Reactions: duffer

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,492
Liquid Gold said:
If they use the CVC money for a training site then none of their debt will go. By the time the bond is due for repayment they'll already be over £80m in debt.
Click to expand...

There are conditions to the CVC money.. so the development makes sense for them.
The clubs voted unanimously to accept the new deal, however, with the funds raised earmarked for developing facilities and stadiums and expanding the competition into new markets rather than paying increasing players' wages.
Click to expand...
Premiership rugby agrees to sell minority stake to CVC Capital Partners | Daily Mail Online
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,493
Captain Dart said:
There are conditions to the CVC money.. so the development makes sense for them.

Premiership rugby agrees to sell minority stake to CVC Capital Partners | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...
They've been encouraged to use it for development but there is no requirement to.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,494
Liquid Gold said:
They've been encouraged to use it for development but there is no requirement to.
Click to expand...

For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,495
Captain Dart said:
For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.
Click to expand...
You may well be correct, I'm just pointing out that they don't have to do that which is what you implied. Not difficult to grasp.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,496
Liquid Gold said:
You may well be correct, I'm just pointing out that they don't have to do that which is what you implied. Not difficult to grasp.
Click to expand...
and irrelevant.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,497
Captain Dart said:
and irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Of course it’s relevant. If they have to spend it on infrastructure then they will. If they don’t they may well chose to spend to servicing debt. Again, not difficult.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,498
Captain Dart said:
For heavens sake man, they clearly want a training facillity to stop player drain due to shitty Broad St porta kabins & have chosen to spend the dosh on Leamington.
Why are you chucking out spurious diversions when it is bloody obvious what they're doing, I'm not supporting them I'm merely pointing out my conclusion about their strategy, I believe I'm correct on this one.
Click to expand...

So much for being Coventry Wasps.
 
Reactions: duffer

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,499
fernandopartridge said:
Yeah but the idea is that they're increasing their asset base. They'll value the training ground at £20m on top of the £60m for the Ricoh!
Click to expand...
Yup and they'll refinance the bonds (someone with knowledge in this area can helpfully explain what this entails?) which they can do from next month it seems...

"a spokesperson for the Wasps Group said: ‘As we have always said since launching the retail bond in May 2015, one of our options would be to re-finance the bond, which we are entitled to do any time between May 2019 and May 2022."
You want it back when......? Wasps likely to refinance 6.5% bond due 2022 - Retail Bond Expert
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,500
MusicDating said:
Yup and they'll refinance the bonds (someone with knowledge in this area can helpfully explain what this entails?) which they can do from next month it seems...

"a spokesperson for the Wasps Group said: ‘As we have always said since launching the retail bond in May 2015, one of our options would be to re-finance the bond, which we are entitled to do any time between May 2019 and May 2022."
You want it back when......? Wasps likely to refinance 6.5% bond due 2022 - Retail Bond Expert
Click to expand...

I don't think they'll do it yet tbh, no idea what they'll have to offer interest rate wise based on the current abysmal financial performance.

That said, I do wonder whether Richardson or one of his companies is a significant bondholder
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,501
I think they will refinance and delay the pain but problems look inevitable to me.
 

vow

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,502
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Coventry Wasps.
Click to expand...
Please, never utter them two words in the same sentence again ever!!
Thank you.
 
Reactions: Kneeza

CanadianCCFC

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,503
vow said:
Please, never utter them two words in the same sentence again ever!!
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Until wasps go down this season and play against Coventry next season. Coventry vs Wasps. Wasps vs Coventry. It works fine.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,504
fernandopartridge said:
I don't think they'll do it yet tbh, no idea what they'll have to offer interest rate wise based on the current abysmal financial performance.

That said, I do wonder whether Richardson or one of his companies is a significant bondholder
Click to expand...

I’m sure they are
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #1,505
CanadianCCFC said:
Until wasps go down this season and play against Coventry next season. Coventry vs Wasps. Wasps vs Coventry. It works fine.
Click to expand...
Coventry beat Wasps, Wasps lose to Coventry. That works even better.
 
Reactions: Kneeza, duffer and CanadianCCFC
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