Wasps Chief Exec (1 Viewer)

torchomatic · Oct 9, 2014

Didn't catch all of it on CWR on the way to work, does anyone know what he said? He was making all the right noises from what I did hear, will work in partnership with CRFC and Cov Ladies who currently play on Sundays. Said he couldn't say anything to Wasps fans because of confidentiality.

Also on Midlands Today they mentioned that Worcester RC are contacting the RFU with concerns. Might rumble on a bit this.

torchomatic · Oct 9, 2014

Oh, and said he'd had a preliminary meeting with CCFC.

Hobo · Oct 9, 2014

Worcester are only concerned about themselves as they see the Coventry area as part of their development schools and part of their fan base catchment area. They are not concerned about Coventry RFC or anyone else for that matter!

duffer · Oct 9, 2014

Hobo said:
Worcester are only concerned about themselves as they see the Coventry area as part of their development schools and part of their fan base catchment area. They are not concerned about Coventry RFC or anyone else for that matter!

Northampton and Leicester may have similar concerns. The point is that they are not right on our doorstep, and they haven't been franchised in overnight. Do you really think Wasps are any more concerned about CRFC or CCFC than those teams are?

Obviously Wasps would like CCFC as a tenant, to bring them a bit of extra cash, but let's not pretend they want anything more out of them.

With regard to CRFC - they might (if the RFU allows it) chuck over the odd player or two on loan. Or (if the RFU allows it) build a training ground locally and let CRFC train in the corner occasionally.

They certainly aren't likely to allow CRFC to grow to a point where they compete for what little fanbase Wasps will have though.

You've talked about people flapping their gums over franchises, but not really caring. That might be true of some, but it's certainly not true of all. And either way it doesn't actually change the argument - taking clubs away from their fanbases is wrong. Would you disagree?

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

duffer said:
Northampton and Leicester may have similar concerns. The point is that they are not right on our doorstep, and they haven't been franchised in overnight. Do you really think Wasps are any more concerned about CRFC or CCFC than those teams are?

Obviously Wasps would like CCFC as a tenant, to bring them a bit of extra cash, but let's not pretend they want anything more out of them.

With regard to CRFC - they might (if the RFU allows it) chuck over the odd player or two on loan. Or (if the RFU allows it) build a training ground locally and let CRFC train in the corner occasionally.

They certainly aren't likely to allow CRFC to grow to a point where they compete for what little fanbase Wasps will have though.

You've talked about people flapping their gums over franchises, but not really caring. That might be true of some, but it's certainly not true of all. And either way it doesn't actually change the argument - taking clubs away from their fanbases is wrong. Would you disagree?

Think pretty much everyone to a man thinks that taking a club away from its fanbase is wrong.

duffer · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
Think pretty much everyone to a man thinks that taking a club away from its fanbase is wrong.

Ah, would that were true. If that was the case neither MK Dons nor Wasps would get any support.

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

duffer said:
Ah, would that were true. If that was the case neither MK Dons nor Wasps would get any support.

Wonder what happened way back when, when this MK Dons thing happened.

Were there any protests from within Milton Keynes to the proposal? Did MK already have local football teams that suffered as a result? I'm sure they must have.

Think for MK it was an easy decision in many ways. That being of the fact that they didn't have a major football club at all within the city.

Here is slightly different in the fact that we have a major football team and a major rugby team, though that doesn't make it any less wrong.

Wonder if there was any opposition their end or whether they just embraced it.

torchomatic · Oct 9, 2014

Of course they are, as we were when we moved to Northampton. Imagine Tottenham moving into the Ricoh. Would we be "only concerned for ourselves"?

Hobo said:
Worcester are only concerned about themselves as they see the Coventry area as part of their development schools and part of their fan base catchment area. They are not concerned about Coventry RFC or anyone else for that matter!

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
Wonder what happened way back when, when this MK Dons thing happened.

Were there any protests from within Milton Keynes to the proposal? Did MK already have local football teams that suffered as a result? I'm sure they must have.

Think for MK it was an easy decision in many ways. That being of the fact that they didn't have a major football club at all within the city.

Here is slightly different in the fact that we have a major football team and a major rugby team, though that doesn't make it any less wrong.

Wonder if there was any opposition their end or whether they just embraced it.

Just did a quick Google search and found that at first the MK stadium site was offered to Luton, Wimbledon, Barnet, Crystal Palace and Queens Park Rangers.

Talk about pimping yourselves.

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
Just did a quick Google search and found that at first the MK stadium site was offered to Luton, Wimbledon, Barnet, Crystal Palace and Queens Park Rangers.

Talk about pimping yourselves.

And there was first talk of a franchise team coming as way back as 1973, Charlton.

Monners · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
Wonder what happened way back when, when this MK Dons thing happened.

Were there any protests from within Milton Keynes to the proposal? Did MK already have local football teams that suffered as a result? I'm sure they must have.

Think for MK it was an easy decision in many ways. That being of the fact that they didn't have a major football club at all within the city.

Here is slightly different in the fact that we have a major football team and a major rugby team, though that doesn't make it any less wrong.

Wonder if there was any opposition their end or whether they just embraced it.

Have friends in MK and wife worked there at the time of the move. MK did have a team, but it never got off the ground and always played at a very low level. Mate of mine actually managed them form a while. Wolverton (which is next to MK) had a decent side at slightly higher level. Both of these clubs have since folded, although I am not attributing this directly to MK Dons coming in. There was no protest of any significance that I recall, although those that I know didn't agree with it for similar reasons to us i.e. franchihse will impact local sports clubs, unfair on Wimbledon fans. Most locals support other clubs, mainly London teams, Watford, Luton also.

So, not embraced as such, more a curiosty I think when the move first happened. Things seem to be moving on since the new ground was built, and the MK Academny is heavily invested in and proving to be productive. This bit does cause rancour with, for example, the likes of the Cobblers 20 miles up the road. There are kidds at my daughters school who are at their academy rather than Northampton's - Maybe Winkie pays expenses perhaps. Having said that, a mate of mine has his lad at the Cobblers due mainly to the respect in which they treat both him and his lad.

rupert_bear · Oct 9, 2014

I think Worcester Warriors main concern is they have set ruggers version of an academy in Warwickshire so a Wasps similar plan could affect them and there are rules within rugby about that. I think Worcester will find the Ricoh is part of the West Midlands not Warwickshire. I also think apart from the Ricoh Arena it is the West Midlands area that has attracted Wasps here, didn't realise there are no premier rugby teams in it

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

Monners said:
Have friends in MK and wife worked there at the time of the move. MK did have a team, but it never got off the ground and always played at a very low level. Mate of mine actually managed them form a while. Wolverton (which is next to MK) had a decent side at slightly higher level. Both of these clubs have since folded, although I am not attributing this directly to MK Dons coming in. There was no protest of any significance that I recall, although those that I know didn't agree with it for similar reasons to us i.e. franchihse will impact local sports clubs, unfair on Wimbledon fans. Most locals support other clubs, mainly London teams, Watford, Luton also.

So, not embraced as such, more a curiosty I think when the move first happened. Things seem to be moving on since the new ground was built, and the MK Academny is heavily invested in and proving to be productive. This bit does cause rancour with, for example, the likes of the Cobblers 20 miles up the road. There are kidds at my daughters school who are at their academy rather than Northampton's - Maybe Winkie pays expenses perhaps. Having said that, a mate of mine has his lad at the Cobblers due mainly to the respect in which they treat both him and his lad.

Thanks, Monners. Very insightful.

letsallsingtogether · Oct 9, 2014

I do believe they have interests within Coventry as well After all Coventry and Warwickshire is the best place in the Country for the number of teams it has....
You could call it a Hot bed for Rugby Union.

rupert_bear said:
I think Worcester Warriors main concern is they have set ruggers version of an academy in Warwickshire so a Wasps similar plan could affect them and there are rules within rugby about that. I think Worcester will find the Ricoh is part of the West Midlands not Warwickshire. I also think apart from the Ricoh Arena it is the West Midlands area that has attracted Wasps here, didn't realise there are no premier rugby teams in it

letsallsingtogether · Oct 9, 2014

To be fair to the academies we have always had a lot of local kids at Brum, Vile etc so that is nothing new..

Monners said:
Have friends in MK and wife worked there at the time of the move. MK did have a team, but it never got off the ground and always played at a very low level. Mate of mine actually managed them form a while. Wolverton (which is next to MK) had a decent side at slightly higher level. Both of these clubs have since folded, although I am not attributing this directly to MK Dons coming in. There was no protest of any significance that I recall, although those that I know didn't agree with it for similar reasons to us i.e. franchihse will impact local sports clubs, unfair on Wimbledon fans. Most locals support other clubs, mainly London teams, Watford, Luton also.

So, not embraced as such, more a curiosty I think when the move first happened. Things seem to be moving on since the new ground was built, and the MK Academny is heavily invested in and proving to be productive. This bit does cause rancour with, for example, the likes of the Cobblers 20 miles up the road. There are kidds at my daughters school who are at their academy rather than Northampton's - Maybe Winkie pays expenses perhaps. Having said that, a mate of mine has his lad at the Cobblers due mainly to the respect in which they treat both him and his lad.

Monners · Oct 9, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
To be fair to the academies we have always had a lot of local kids at Brum, Vile etc so that is nothing new..

It isn't new no. But MK Dons didn't exist a few years ago, and seem to sweep their net very wide. The Cobblers, Luton, even Peterborough I suspect find it difficult to compete with them due to funds/facilites.

Hobo · Oct 9, 2014

duffer said:
Northampton and Leicester may have similar concerns. The point is that they are not right on our doorstep, and they haven't been franchised in overnight. Do you really think Wasps are any more concerned about CRFC or CCFC than those teams are?

Obviously Wasps would like CCFC as a tenant, to bring them a bit of extra cash, but let's not pretend they want anything more out of them.

With regard to CRFC - they might (if the RFU allows it) chuck over the odd player or two on loan. Or (if the RFU allows it) build a training ground locally and let CRFC train in the corner occasionally.

They certainly aren't likely to allow CRFC to grow to a point where they compete for what little fanbase Wasps will have though.

You've talked about people flapping their gums over franchises, but not really caring. That might be true of some, but it's certainly not true of all. And either way it doesn't actually change the argument - taking clubs away from their fanbases is wrong. Would you disagree?

I think over various posts I have made it clear that any advantages to CCFC or CRFC are short term gains and not really in their long term interests. I also don't know how many times I have to say I am against franchising and teams being moved from the traditional areas, before people realise it.

rupert_bear · Oct 9, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
I do believe they have interests within Coventry as well After all Coventry and Warwickshire is the best place in the Country for the number of teams it has....
You could call it a Hot bed for Rugby Union.

I think you are correct, which begs the question why with it's history and tradition has Coventry RC allowed a club from Worcester nearly 50 miles away to get a grip in Covs area.

Monners · Oct 9, 2014

rupert_bear said:
I think you are correct, which begs the question why with it's history and tradition has Coventry RC allowed a club from Worcester nearly 50 miles away to get a grip in Covs area.

What could they do about it though? I don't know much about rugger, but even in Saints territory where local lads like Ben Cohen and Courtney (whatever his name is) have come through from local clubs, I suspect some kids slip through the net to the like as Leicester.

rupert_bear · Oct 9, 2014

Hobo said:
I think over various posts I have made it clear that any advantages to CCFC or CRFC are short term gains and not really in their long term interests. I also don't know how many times I have to say I am against franchising and teams being moved from the traditional areas, before people realise it.

I think franchising will happen more and more, I also think there will be more sharing of grounds by football and RU clubs. I would love the old days when we had dear old Highfield Road to ourselves and CRUFC had Coundon Road but those times have gone forever. Money and survival is the big deal nowadays. I don't rule other sports at the Ricoh out either, Rugby League for example is played through the summer nowadays so lets if anything happens there.

John_Silletts_Nose · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
And there was first talk of a franchise team coming as way back as 1973, Charlton.

I think Arsenal were the first big, significant franchise club, they moved from Woolwich (Woolwich Arsenal) to Highbury, crossing the river was a huge move in 1913.

Hobo · Oct 9, 2014

rupert_bear said:
I think franchising will happen more and more, I also think there will be more sharing of grounds by football and RU clubs. I would love the old days when we had dear old Highfield Road to ourselves and CRUFC had Coundon Road but those times have gone forever. Money and survival is the big deal nowadays. I don't rule other sports at the Ricoh out either, Rugby League for example is played through the summer nowadays so lets if anything happens there.

I think you are right it is happening more and more and in lots of ways makes good sense. Just don't complain when your team gets moved down the road or its existence gets swallowed up by another identity.

Most people don't seem to mind anyway as the Wasps petition has gained a mighty 2500 signatures. Not good from the two combined fan bases really is it?

duffer · Oct 9, 2014

Hobo said:
I think you are right it is happening more and more and in lots of ways makes good sense. Just don't complain when your team gets moved down the road or its existence gets swallowed up by another identity.

Most people don't seem to mind anyway as the Wasps petition has gained a mighty 2500 signatures. Not good from the two combined fan bases really is it?

In fairness, I think plenty of Wasps fan mind. Put yourself in their shoes and go read their boards.

But the point you've made is the key one - if you're happy to let this through or support it because it's "just business", then you can't complain when a team you do care about gets shafted.

Hobo · Oct 9, 2014

duffer said:
In fairness, I think plenty of Wasps fan mind. Put yourself in their shoes and go read their boards.

But the point you've made is the key one - if you're happy to let this through or support it because it's "just business", then you can't complain when a team you do care about gets shafted.

I have gone on their boards. I have also signed their petition and read the comments. Plenty of disgruntled Wasps fans, some Coventry and some others I.e a Saracens fan has signed it. But the total is disappointing don't you think?

Too many Coventry fans already smacking their lips at short term gains rather than the long term picture. The only franchise I would have accepted would have been a multi purpose stadium for CCFC, CRFC and Coventry Bees.

torchomatic · Oct 9, 2014

Our petition was the same though, wasn't it? We had 30K at Crewe but hardly anyone signed the petition and we had to post messages on other boards for support.

Houdi · Oct 9, 2014

Hobo said:
I think you are right it is happening more and more and in lots of ways makes good sense. Just don't complain when your team gets moved down the road or its existence gets swallowed up by another identity.

Most people don't seem to mind anyway as the Wasps petition has gained a mighty 2500 signatures. Not good from the two combined fan bases really is it?

The trouble is franchise has as a word become about as popular as Ebola. While I personally would always consider CRFC as the true rugby team representing our City, and have no real interest in watching Wasps, I think some of the anger has been overplayed.
Firstly there are probably hundreds if not thousands of born and bred Coventrians who quite happily follow/support your Man Utd/Chelsea/Liverpools. All these big clubs have thousands of fans with no real connections with the communities of Liverpool or Manchester,it is like these fans have become individual franchises themselves.
And lets be honest 99% of other club's fans only cried crocodile tears over our exile to Northampton.Yes some might of 'tweeted ' their support,or put a like on facebook, or applauded at Arsenal or Notts County when we held up signs. I would be amazed if many other fans lost one nano second of sleep over our fate. Yes most thought it was wrong and a shame, but what clubs fans really ever boycotted Sixfields.
What fans including our own have ever boycotted MK ,only a handful at best. If you are a football mad youngster who happened to be born in Milton Keynes, who should you actually support?
As for the team who were actually known as the London Wasps,since when has High Wycombe been in London, it is no more in London than Northampton is in Coventry. They were effectively already a semi-franchise outfit anyway. Ideally Wasps would be playing in London where I'm sure they would rather be, and the Ricoh Arena would be the owned by CCFC, for the sole benefit of CCFC,unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

duffer · Oct 9, 2014

Hobo said:
I have gone on their boards. I have also signed their petition and read the comments. Plenty of disgruntled Wasps fans, some Coventry and some others I.e a Saracens fan has signed it. But the total is disappointing don't you think?

Too many Coventry fans already smacking their lips at short term gains rather than the long term picture. The only franchise I would have accepted would have been a multi purpose stadium for CCFC, CRFC and Coventry Bees.

As torchy's point above really - I don't think petitions necessarily reflect the true volume or depth of feeling. But if you look at their boards, they read an awful lot like our boards when we moved to Northampton. And we know how popular that move was with our fans

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

As we quite often seem to let American culture and ways drift into our society and way of thinking over here, it seems like franchising might well be the future unfortunately.

Happens all the time in US sports and if the Jacksonville Jaguars re-locate to London as has been suggested, there is an NFL franchise right there.

We've had Liverpool and West Ham and Spurs and a number of others talk about relocating to a new stadium or developing their own.

Just wondering how much pressure there could be in the future when sports clubs have their new stadium proposals turned down by local authorities and they don't have any opportunity to expand any further.

Think QPR's stadium only has about an 18,000 capacity and they have one of the richest owners in football.

I have to say it is a concern and everything is now seemingly driven by money, with any community aspects playing second fiddle.

With CCC here, they have thought about the money first and the local professional football team very much second.

I did hear yesterday a Lib Dem saying that in their manifesto would be a proposal to bring into law a regulation that prevented franchising and teams moving away from the local community it was intended for.

They will never get in though will they. If Chelsea wanted to move elsewhere to say the outskirts of London I don't think anyone would stand in their way.

I do hope this Wasps thing is a one off, but you do have to worry that it may well become a trend.

Hobo · Oct 9, 2014

There are some good posts being made highlighting good/interesting points. I can see the benefits and the attractions from a business point of view. But it is still sad I think. Wasps fans have been told either follow us or the club would have died. A tough choice for a fan. So you either lump it, stop following the club, or change where you get your fix.

Houdi · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
As we quite often seem to let American culture and ways drift into our society and way of thinking over here, it seems like franchising might well be the future unfortunately.

Happens all the time in US sports and if the Jacksonville Jaguars re-locate to London as has been suggested, there is an NFL franchise right there.

We've had Liverpool and West Ham and Spurs and a number of others talk about relocating to a new stadium or developing their own.

Just wondering how much pressure there could be in the future when sports clubs have their new stadium proposals turned down by local authorities and they don't have any opportunity to expand any further.

Think QPR's stadium only has about an 18,000 capacity and they have one of the richest owners in football.

I have to say it is a concern and everything is now seemingly driven by money, with any community aspects playing second fiddle.

With CCC here, they have thought about the money first and the local professional football team very much second.

I did hear yesterday a Lib Dem saying that in their manifesto would be a proposal to bring into law a regulation that prevented franchising and teams moving away from the local community it was intended for.

They will never get in though will they. If Chelsea wanted to move elsewhere to say the outskirts of London I don't think anyone would stand in their way.

I do hope this Wasps thing is a one off, but you do have to worry that it may well become a trend.

It has already happened in the NFL ,Oakland moved 400 miles down the coast to LA many years ago, and then moved back to Oakland. The LA Rams upsticks many years ago to St Louis. I believe in Wales there were mergers and in effect closures of certain clubs a few years ago. Aren't Ospreys a merger of Neath and Swansea. Do clubs like LLanelli ?sp,Pontypool ,Neath even exist anymore.
Whether people like it or not professional sport's club are businesses, and as it normal commercial situations, businesses have to often adapt and change or they may die. I presume that Wasps feel they simply can't survive financially if they stay at Wycombe long term, and that they can't find anywhere suitable or maybe viable in London.

lordsummerisle · Oct 9, 2014

Whether people like it or not professional sport's club are businesses, and as it normal commercial situations, businesses have to often adapt and change or they may die. I presume that Wasps feel they simply can't survive financially if they stay at Wycombe long term, and that they can't find anywhere suitable or maybe viable in London.

Glad to see so many people giving Sisu the green light to do what they like with the club as it will be "only business".

mattylad · Oct 9, 2014

The South west corridor has Exeter, Bath, Bristol and Gloucester in it hence why Worcester have always been allowed to look this way for academy players.

Otis · Oct 9, 2014

Houdi said:
It has already happened in the NFL ,Oakland moved 400 miles down the coast to LA many years ago, and then moved back to Oakland. The LA Rams upsticks many years ago to St Louis. I believe in Wales there were mergers and in effect closures of certain clubs a few years ago. Aren't Ospreys a merger of Neath and Swansea. Do clubs like LLanelli ?sp,Pontypool ,Neath even exist anymore.
Whether people like it or not professional sport's club are businesses, and as it normal commercial situations, businesses have to often adapt and change or they may die. I presume that Wasps feel they simply can't survive financially if they stay at Wycombe long term, and that they can't find anywhere suitable or maybe viable in London.

We can't survive financially here. Certainly not on crowds of under 8,000.

Should Sisu adapt and change and move us?

lordsummerisle · Oct 9, 2014

Otis said:
We can't survive financially here. Certainly not on crowds of under 8,000.

Should Sisu adapt and change and move us?

Hey, that's business Otis.

Seems a huge groundswell of support for that concept from people who have been previously against such an idea.

torchomatic · Oct 9, 2014

Maybe Nick can create a special 180 Club for them?

lordsummerisle said:
Hey, that's business Otis.

Seems a huge groundswell of support for that concept from people who have been previously against such an idea.

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