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Wasps billing CCFC for pitch repairs after Wycombe game (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Nick
  • Start date Mar 7, 2017
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Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #36
pastythegreat said:
Well, I think that's easy nick surely! IF......... big IF, SISU are actually successful in the court cases that CCC illegally sold the ricoh to the outsiders, not only would CCC be in for a whipping, but where does that leave the owners of the stadium? Still owners? Surely not as it was ill gotten gains! (IF they're successful)!

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Click to expand...

That would be a massive IF and it would also mean there was wrong doing.

I don't think the sale can be reversed.
 

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #37
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
This is an absolute joke. The pitch was 99% fucked before any fan set foot on there.

Still, forgetting that it's us being charged for a moment, it looks like we've found a weakness out for Wasps.
Click to expand...
No more sit ins, more like run ons! We'll keep running on your pitch until a)you agree to an extension or b) you fuck of back to London!

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #38
pastythegreat said:
Well, I think that's easy nick surely! IF......... big IF, SISU are actually successful in the court cases that CCC illegally sold the ricoh to the outsiders, not only would CCC be in for a whipping, but where does that leave the owners of the stadium? Still owners? Surely not as it was ill gotten gains! (IF they're successful)!

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Click to expand...

I think nothing would happen to the WASPS purchase if it can be shown CCC were "at fault"
Unless it can be shown that WASPS were in some form of agreement with CCC that faciltated the "fault"
 

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #39
Nick said:
That would be a massive IF and it would also mean there was wrong doing.

I don't think the sale can be reversed.
Click to expand...
Surely IF it was an illegal sale it has to be reversed!
If you bought a phone in the pub and it turns out it was stolen, would the old bill allow you to keep it?!?! Why should something like this be different?


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Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #40
pastythegreat said:
Surely IF it was an illegal sale it has to be reversed!
If you bought a phone in the pub and it turns out it was stolen, would the old bill allow you to keep it?!?! Why should something like this be different?


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I'm no expert, but I don't think it would be as extreme as that.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #41
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
This is an absolute joke. The pitch was 99% fucked before any fan set foot on there.

Still, forgetting that it's us being charged for a moment, it looks like we've found a weakness out for Wasps.
Click to expand...

Dont the FL monitor the pitch condition each game?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #42
Nick said:
REVEALED: Wasps’ Ricoh Arena charges Coventry City for pitch repairs due to fans’ Wembley celebration

Interesting, it was an absolute mess before the game started and for weeks leading up to it.
Click to expand...

There could be 11000 witnesses at the Court then?
 
Reactions: dongonzalos and Earlsdon_Skyblue1

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #43
Nick said:
I'm no expert, but I don't think it would be as extreme as that.
Click to expand...
No, tbf I'm just assuming and you know what happens when we assume?
It makes an ASS of U and ME!

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #44
oldfiver said:
Dont the FL monitor the pitch condition each game?
Click to expand...

Potentially, I have no idea.

Would make sense though. The FL can't check if an owner is suitable enough but they do count every blade of grass in 92 stadiums before kick off!
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #45
oldfiver said:
There could be 11000 witnesses at the Court then?
Click to expand...
And their manager
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #46
oldfiver said:
Dont the FL monitor the pitch condition each game?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the ref look at it and report back?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #47
pastythegreat said:
Well, I think that's easy nick surely! IF......... big IF, SISU are actually successful in the court cases that CCC illegally sold the ricoh to the outsiders, not only would CCC be in for a whipping, but where does that leave the owners of the stadium? Still owners? Surely not as it was ill gotten gains! (IF they're successful)!

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Click to expand...

Well, if it was all illegal then we should be thankful for British Justice if JR2 is successful. And surely, Wasps should be fairly confident that it was all legal and above board.

And, I'm not Nick.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #48
torchomatic said:
Well, if it was all illegal then we should be thankful for British Justice. And surely, Wasps should be fairly confident that it was all lebal and above board.

And, I'm not Nick.
Click to expand...
He quoted me I think!
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #49
Italia will be along in a minute to tell us how we should thank them for it.
 
Reactions: Sterling Archer and Moff

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #50
So have they asked for some money, the club have said no, and that's the end of it?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #51
Nick said:
He quoted me I think!
Click to expand...

Sorry, wasn't looking.
 

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #52
torchomatic said:
Well, if it was all illegal then we should be thankful for British Justice if JR2 is successful. And surely, Wasps should be fairly confident that it was all legal and above board.

And, I'm not Nick.
Click to expand...
Haha sorry! Speaking to 2 people at the same time never was my strong point


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pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #53
torchomatic said:
Well, if it was all illegal then we should be thankful for British Justice if JR2 is successful. And surely, Wasps should be fairly confident that it was all legal and above board.

And, I'm not Nick.
Click to expand...
Actually it was nick I was talking to!
Nick- why does it threaten their money?
Me - that post!

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Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #54
fernandopartridge said:
Why is it denominated in euros? Are they importing the lamps?
Click to expand...

Aren't they owned by a Maltese Hedge Fund? The currency of Malta is the Euro, so maybe straight into the Wasps owners pockets?

Just lighting the blue touch paper...laters....
 
Reactions: Moff, Grendel, Ian1779 and 2 others
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #55
I assume Wasps are responsible in the contract for the damage to the pitch through matches and they are taking advantage of this to try to get Cov to pay up.
 

christonabike

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #56
Didn't the Wycombe manager moan about the state of the pitch? That's before people went on it!
Cheeky fookers!
 
Reactions: clint van damme and montydon87

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #57
JR2 only relates to the 50% sold by Coventry City Council so it leaves Wasps with at least 50% of the stadium.

The purpose of JR2 is to investigate the CCC actions, going to be hard to force Wasps out if they acted in good faith. It would be CCC that would bear the brunt of any financial circumstances.

Say the total share sale was undervalued by 5m then how do you get Wasps to pay that if they acted in good faith. Not to mention the CCC arguing that the other benefits gained in their opinion of Wasps being here were adding worth to what Coventry got from the deal.

Surprised that a few fans could cause that much damage to a poor pitch. Making operational matters public really doesn't help the relationship. Unless it was in the contract then I would be saying sorry but no
 
Reactions: The Reverend Skyblue, Grendel and torchomatic

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #58
And people wonder why I think wasps are bunch of shisters

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Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #59
oldskyblue58 said:
JR2 only relates to the 50% sold by Coventry City Council so it leaves Wasps with at least 50% of the stadium.

The purpose of JR2 is to investigate the CCC actions, going to be hard to force Wasps out if they acted in good faith. It would be CCC that would bear the brunt of any financial circumstances.

Say the total share sale was undervalued by 5m then how do you get Wasps to pay that if they acted in good faith. Not to mention the CCC arguing that the other benefits gained in their opinion of Wasps being here were adding worth to what Coventry got from the deal.

Surprised that a few fans could cause that much damage to a poor pitch. Making operational matters public really doesn't help the relationship. Unless it was in the contract then I would be saying sorry but no
Click to expand...

Does the 250 year stuff not come into it also?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #60
Nick said:
Does the 250 year stuff not come into it also?
Click to expand...

Yes apparently

take away the 250 year extension and the original lease remains owned by ACL who are owned by Wasps. I think if they are claiming that the 250 year lease should be offered to the public then it is a nonsense because only ACL can extend the lease while ACL own the original lease.

Is the value of the lease more than £1m? Well is the £1m the only financial benefit CCC receive or does the extended lease create right to an annual fee for the next 250 years? Is there an open market value to a lease extension that cannot actually be offered to the open market? What income did CCC have a right to under the original lease? Got to ask those sort of questions
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #61
Got to make you think though of all the cost cutting that the rugby club is doing, and the cost of their bonds on a downward path for the last four months, things could not be as rosy as some would like it to be seen.
 
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withnail

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #62
God I hate london wasps
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, clint van damme, stupot07 and 2 others

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #63
oldskyblue58 said:
take away the 250 year extension and the original lease remains owned by ACL who are owned by Wasps. I think if they are claiming that the 250 year lease should be offered to the public then it is a nonsense because only ACL can extend the lease while ACL own the original lease.
Click to expand...
They can argue the value of the 200 year extension. By anyone's estimation £5K a year is a long way from the £500K a year charged for the original lease.

Suspect that as the lease now surpasses the lifetime of the stadium and the extension was agreed at the same CCC meeting as the sale it will be argued that Wasps were sold, to all intents and purposes, something equating to the freehold. If the judge buys that argument then there's rules CCC should have followed around the sale. That will come down to the small legal details and the judges interpretation.
oldskyblue58 said:
Is there an open market value to a lease extension that cannot actually be offered to the open market?
Click to expand...
There's a document on the CCC website somewhere that states the value of the freehold increases greatly as the lease comes to an end, that was referring to the original lease. You could therefore make an argument that any lease extension being sold at this point should at least match that projected future value to ensure best return to the taxpayer.
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #64
Do we know if this is actually true or is this based on a Les Reid story?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #65
torchomatic said:
Why does the legal action with CCC threaten "their money"?
Click to expand...

Straight away it will be costing them time money and effort reviewing it legally.
In the future it presents a risk. If in the unlikely event SISU win. An unlikely remedy option for a judge is the contract length of the lease 40 years to 250 and the ability to reverse the decision by a public entity namely the council.
Pressure SISU to drop the legal action = no risk
 
Last edited: Mar 7, 2017

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #66
They could argue the value CD yes. But so I should imagine can CCC to include the social benefits. Still comes down to a lease extension could only ever have been sold to one party - ACL - which does not necessarily enhance the value with 40 years left on the lease it could well depress it. Also if CCC now receive an annual lease payment you would have to factor that in by discounting the future revenue streams to get a present value of that. The decision will be based as at January 2015 what happens in 40 years is not relevant - what was the value in 2015

It is to all intents and purposes freehold in valuation terms yes, is it legal terms? that's probably something very different. The freehold still exists. It is still owned by CCC. The lease gives you different rights to holding the lease 40 years or 250 years

The extension was agreed in principle at the Council meeting. probably dependent on Wasps getting the 50% Charity share, was the lease deal finalised then or was it approved so it could be progressed. The lease didn't exist until January 2015.

Is the £1m a one off payment or are there other income streams CCC benefit from?

More than anything else JR2 is going to depend on the sequence of events
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #67
dongonzalos said:
Straight away it will be costing them time money and effort reviewing it legally.
In the future it presents a risk. If inthe unlikely event SISU win. An unlikely remedy option for ajudge isthe contract length if the lease 40 years to 250 and the ability to reverse the decision by a public entity namely the council.
Pressure SISU to drop the legal action = no risk
Click to expand...

Or just do what they want and say SISU loud enough = no bad press or backlash.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #68
oldfiver said:
There is no legal action against WASPS is there?
Click to expand...

Do you believe Wasps have not paid lawyers to review what implications this legal action has for them?
Do you believe that there are no remedy options available to the Judge if SISU won that could adversely affect them?
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #69
dongonzalos said:
Do you believe Wasps have not paid lawyers to review what implications this legal action has for them?
Do you believe that there are no remedy options available to the Judge if SISU won that could adversely affect them?
Click to expand...

They'd have some difficulty wouldn't they? Have any papers even been filed on it?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 7, 2017
  • #70
dongonzalos said:
Do you believe Wasps have not paid lawyers to review what implications this legal action has for them?
Do you believe that there are no remedy options available to the Judge if SISU won that could adversely affect them?
Click to expand...

Do I believe you are trying your best to justify Wasps trying to charge the club for the pitch?
 
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