Warning - Remember Swindon 2014/15 (1 Viewer)

GaryJones · Nov 8, 2015

After the Cup exits and the obvious shortcomings of the team whenever our loan players are absent I think we need to have a slightly longer term worry.
This is best the chance we have of finally getting our first ever a top 6 finish since Black & White TVs were in every home and you still had horse drawn Rag & Bone men up and down your street shouting "any old iron".
My fear is what if we don't finish in the top 6!
Take a look at Swindon last season - 9 loan players on the book (including our own Sam Ricketts) and playing attractive football all season exactly as we are now - finally making it to the play-offs only to get beaten in the final by Preston.
Fast forward to the present day - all those loan players have gone as has the Manager and his back room staff and Swindon find themselves Bottom of the table with Crewe.
We need to sort the defensive issue out as fast as we can so at least if we are not scoring in the games the loans are absent from we at least stand a chance of keeping a clean sheet and gaining points.
We cant afford to buy these players even if Newcastle and Liverpool etc decided to sell so its inevitable we are going to lose them sooner or later so we need to make hay while we have them and that time is now!
I'm sure TM knows this and I'm sure his team are working incredibly hard to fix it - I just hope they sort it soon.

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

GaryJones said:
After the Cup exits and the obvious shortcomings of the team whenever our loan players are absent I think we need to have a slightly longer term worry.
This is best the chance we have of finally getting our first ever a top 6 finish since Black & White TVs were in every home and you still had horse drawn Rag & Bone men up and down your street shouting "any old iron".
My fear is what if we don't finish in the top 6!
Take a look at Swindon last season - 9 loan players on the book (including our own Sam Ricketts) and playing attractive football all season exactly as we are now - finally making it to the play-offs only to get beaten in the final by Preston.
Fast forward to the present day - all those loan players have gone as has the Manager and his back room staff and Swindon find themselves Bottom of the table with Crewe.
We need to sort the defensive issue out as fast as we can so at least if we are not scoring in the games the loans are absent from we at least stand a chance of keeping a clean sheet and gaining points.
We cant afford to buy these players even if Newcastle and Liverpool etc decided to sell so its inevitable we are going to lose them sooner or later so we need to make hay while we have them and that time is now!
I'm sure TM knows this and I'm sure his team are working incredibly hard to fix it - I just hope they sort it soon.

Do we bomb whenever the loan players are absent?

torchomatic · Nov 8, 2015

Like we did at Burton, you mean? Shambles, that was. We should never have lost that game. Hold on a minute...

Samo said:
Do we bomb whenever the loan players are absent?

jas365 · Nov 8, 2015

I've said for ages that while we continue to operate a policy of signing players on 1 and 2 year contracts propped up with loan deals it's almost impossible to build a settled squad. Every summer we lose a big chunk of the team that has played during the season and we have to start all over again.

torchomatic · Nov 8, 2015

Maybe so and we did it again during the summer as you said. We're not doing too bad on it though, are we? At the moment we have little choice and we're exactly the same as other teams in our league and the one below. We all rely on loan players.

jas365 said:
I've said for ages that while we continue to operate a policy of signing players on 1 and 2 year contracts propped up with loan deals it's almost impossible to build a settled squad. Every summer we lose a big chunk of the team that has played during the season and we have to start all over again.

Bulkoandy · Nov 8, 2015

But they did get to a play off final at Wembley - compare that to our success recently

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

Yeah I wish we'd avoided the loan system and signed a journeyman striker instead of Armstrong.

fernandopartridge · Nov 8, 2015

jas365 said:
I've said for ages that while we continue to operate a policy of signing players on 1 and 2 year contracts propped up with loan deals it's almost impossible to build a settled squad. Every summer we lose a big chunk of the team that has played during the season and we have to start all over again.

Whereas the policy of having a large squad of players on long term contracts who we couldn't get rid of served us brilliantly.

torchomatic · Nov 8, 2015

It was like Juggy on the phone-in the other night and people on here too. They were moaning last year (fair enough) about the rubbish quality of the loans; Coulibally, etc yet they are moaning this year because the quality of the loans are too good and we might lose them!

Samo said:
Yeah I wish we'd avoided the loan system and signed a journeyman striker instead of Armstrong.

Specs WT-R75 · Nov 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
It was like Juggy on the phone-in the other night and people on here too. They were moaning last year (fair enough) about the rubbish quality of the loans; Coulibally, etc yet they are moaning this year because the quality of the loans are too good and we might lose them!

I wouldn't have minded getting that :jerkit: Clarke back alongside Armstrong...

Sky Blue Harry H · Nov 8, 2015

We are getting worked up, and although I understand it, what we mustn't forget to do is to enjoy this little bit of sunshine while we have it. If we can't enjoy the good time and spend all the time worrying about when we don't have it - what's the point? It's like pulling a beautiful girl and then instead of enjoying that fact, worrying about when she will be ditching you ! I understand ours is not a sustainable position, but to be honest it's up to each and every one of us to attend as often as we can, encourage others to get up there and hope TM et al make more good decisions than they make bad. We should then manage to stay top 6, with a fair wind - and with a decent centre back and Newcastle winning now and then, keep Arma and aim for top 2 !!!

jas365 · Nov 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
Maybe so and we did it again during the summer as you said. We're not doing too bad on it though, are we? At the moment we have little choice and we're exactly the same as other teams in our league and the one below. We all rely on loan players.

Yeah I don't disagree, this season the loans have worked well for us, you just have to hope that you get a gem like we have done with Armstrong. But let's remember there is no guarantee of us getting him (or Kent) back after Christmas, we just have to pray that we do or we're knackered I fear.

covcity4life · Nov 8, 2015

Lest we forget

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

jas365 said:
Yeah I don't disagree, this season the loans have worked well for us, you just have to hope that you get a gem like we have done with Armstrong. But let's remember there is no guarantee of us getting him (or Kent) back after Christmas, we just have to pray that we do or we're knackered I fear.

I'd rather have a good player for half a season than a dodgy one for a whole season.
And... there will be other good young strikers at Prem clubs in January who might fancy a run out in a promo chasing team.

covcity4life · Nov 8, 2015

Gotta r member that fortune and tudgay have no cceleration or pace either. That's why we miss Armstrong si much when he's gone.

If replaced with pace we may still keep doing well

However imo Armstrong is more than speed. He's genuinely a player who can become on of the best in england imo from what I've seen. We need to try keep him all season long

Sky Blue Harry H · Nov 8, 2015

jas365 said:
Yeah I don't disagree, this season the loans have worked well for us, you just have to hope that you get a gem like we have done with Armstrong. But let's remember there is no guarantee of us getting him (or Kent) back after Christmas, we just have to pray that we do or we're knackered I fear.

Like some others, I feel Maddison can comfortably add what we may suffer from Kent's potential loss. Armstrong may be another matter, but if we have the creativity, the forward doesn't have to be at Arma's level (only needs to be that good if we don't sort out a big defender to replace Reda!). Still think the Toon may let him stay for the rest of the season if they pick up a bit more form.

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

covcity4life said:
Gotta r member that fortune and tudgay have no cceleration or pace either. That's why we miss Armstrong si much when he's gone.

If replaced with pace we may still keep doing well

However imo Armstrong is more than speed. He's genuinely a player who can become on of the best in england imo from what I've seen. We need to try keep him all season long

Agreed. But there are others. If there had been a poll in the summer on whether we should bring in Armstrong or say... Samuel, what would the result have been?

covcity4life · Nov 8, 2015

Samo said:
Agreed. But there are others. If there had been a poll in the summer on whether we should bring in Armstrong or say... Samuel, what would the result have been?

Eric black

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

covcity4life said:
Eric black

He is on every poll!

mechaishida · Nov 8, 2015

GaryJones said:
After the Cup exits and the obvious shortcomings of the team whenever our loan players are absent I think we need to have a slightly longer term worry.
This is best the chance we have of finally getting our first ever a top 6 finish since Black & White TVs were in every home and you still had horse drawn Rag & Bone men up and down your street shouting "any old iron".
My fear is what if we don't finish in the top 6!
Take a look at Swindon last season - 9 loan players on the book (including our own Sam Ricketts) and playing attractive football all season exactly as we are now - finally making it to the play-offs only to get beaten in the final by Preston.
Fast forward to the present day - all those loan players have gone as has the Manager and his back room staff and Swindon find themselves Bottom of the table with Crewe.
We need to sort the defensive issue out as fast as we can so at least if we are not scoring in the games the loans are absent from we at least stand a chance of keeping a clean sheet and gaining points.
We cant afford to buy these players even if Newcastle and Liverpool etc decided to sell so its inevitable we are going to lose them sooner or later so we need to make hay while we have them and that time is now!
I'm sure TM knows this and I'm sure his team are working incredibly hard to fix it - I just hope they sort it soon.

Well then, the goal is automatic promotion, surely? I understand what you're saying, of course it's a niggle in the back of all Sky Blue fans, so I guess we just have to place our fragile trust in TM and his coaching staff. And SISU, of course.

I outlined necessities for success elsewhere, far too long-winded, but if we can provide cover defensively and another capable striker (and hope that we incur no further significant injuries) I think we may find a modicum of consistency.

I feel the biggest frailty of the team is still general confidence; it has cursed us for many years.

GaryJones · Nov 8, 2015

I see us finishing top 6 IF we sort out the centre back situation regardless if we keep all the loans after January. However if we can sort the defensive cover and keep the loans I reckon top 2 if a definite possibility. Its a great time to be a Sky Blue and my fingers are crossed it doesn't go pair-shaped due to lack of personnel in the CB department.

GaryJones · Nov 8, 2015

Also I DONT think our biggest problem keeping Armstrong will be that Newcastle want him back in January but that other Championship Clubs will want him - they will offer him a step up in class plus will be able to contribute more money to his wage bill at Newcastle as well as giving him extra add-ons for scoring and promotion etc
I cant think of a single Championship who would say no!

Grendel · Nov 8, 2015

GaryJones said:
Also I DONT think our biggest problem keeping Armstrong will be that Newcastle want him back in January but that other Championship Clubs will want him - they will offer him a step up in class plus will be able to contribute more money to his wage bill at Newcastle as well as giving him extra add-ons for scoring and promotion etc
I cant think of a single Championship who would say no!

Most top clubs would say no In the championship or leave him kicking his heels on the bench.

What a load of hysterical nonsense this thread is.

GaryJones · Nov 8, 2015

Grendel said:
Most top clubs would say no In the championship or leave him kicking his heels on the bench.

What a load of hysterical nonsense this thread is.

I suggest you take a good look at the Championship table from the bottom up to Birmingham in 6th place and tell me which of those 19 clubs have 2 or more better finishers than Armstrong in their side!

Grendel · Nov 8, 2015

GaryJones said:
I suggest you take a good look at the Championship table from the bottom up to Birmingham in 6th place and tell me which of those 19 clubs have 2 or more better finishers than Armstrong in their side!

At championship level all their strikers are better finishers at that level by definition.

Sides at the top will not take a gamble on a player totally unproven at that level if they are already winning games with a settled side.

Yes they may loan players in but those players will definitely not walk into the team.

Bournemouth loaned Jones and paid all £39,000 a week of his wages and guess what - he hardly kicked a ball in the promotion run in.

Development seems a new buzz word - the player needs games, needs to be settled and the club loaning him need to be happy with the manager and the coaching staff they send him to.

Macca · Nov 8, 2015

Surely we can just replace our loans with one easily manageable loan

GaryJones · Nov 8, 2015

I think for starters any of these 5 Championship clubs would take Armstrong in a heartbeat and put him straight in
Rotherham (Current Leading Scorer on 3) Nottm Forest (Current Leading Scorer on 2) Charlton (Current Leading Scorer on 3) Bolton (Current Leading Scorer on 3) MK Dons (Current Leading Scorer - Our very own Baker on 4) as well as these you have another 8 or 9 sides who have one striker scoring with no prolific partner.
Then you've got Birmingham and Wolves who always tend to keep an eye on our best players.
Anyway heres hoping you are right and none of these want him in January!

letsallsingtogether · Nov 8, 2015

Grendel said:
Most top clubs would say no In the championship or leave him kicking his heels on the bench.
I
What a load of hysterical nonsense this thread is.

I remember you and others on here saying that about Callum Wilson not good enough for the championship and not good enough for the prem

skybluesam66 · Nov 8, 2015

GaryJones said:
I think for starters any of these 5 Championship clubs would take Armstrong in a heartbeat and put him straight in
Rotherham (Current Leading Scorer on 3) Nottm Forest (Current Leading Scorer on 2) Charlton (Current Leading Scorer on 3) Bolton (Current Leading Scorer on 3) MK Dons (Current Leading Scorer - Our very own Baker on 4) as well as these you have another 8 or 9 sides who have one striker scoring with no prolific partner.
Then you've got Birmingham and Wolves who always tend to keep an eye on our best players.
Anyway heres hoping you are right and none of these want him in January!

bolton 170m in debt
forest - basket case etc etc

italiahorse · Nov 8, 2015

torchomatic said:
It was like Juggy on the phone-in the other night and people on here too. They were moaning last year (fair enough) about the rubbish quality of the loans; Coulibally, etc yet they are moaning this year because the quality of the loans are too good and we might lose them!

It doesn't seem we are building a team. It all seems like survival and every year we spin the dice.
Trouble is we need more fans to build the team and fans won't come back week in week out if they feel we have not future.
I think it's just continuing on in this league until we can stop this cycle.
This is as good as it gets for a long time.

Samo · Nov 8, 2015

italiahorse said:
It doesn't seem we are building a team. It all seems like survival and every year we spin the dice.
Trouble is we need more fans to build the team and fans won't come back week in week out if they feel we have not future.
I think it's just continuing on in this league until we can stop this cycle.
This is as good as it gets for a long time.

Then fans need to get a grip and accept the reality of this level. You see other L1 clubs building a team?

letsallsingtogether · Nov 8, 2015

Samo said:
Then fans need to get a grip and accept the reality of this level. You see other L1 clubs building a team?

But we are not like other teams unfortunately.

Astute · Nov 8, 2015

letsallsingtogether said:
But we are not like other teams unfortunately.

Are we not?

There are clubs hanging on in the Championship. Once they get relegated they will be in the shit. We have been there and are now presently on the way back up.

The state of a lot of clubs is dire. But many only notice what is going on at their own club. SISU have taken the hit. As a club we are not full of debt. And with the way we are being run now we will not be overcome with debt like other clubs. We are in a much better place than many notice or would like to admit to. The one thing we do need is our own home. But that will have to wait.

letsallsingtogether · Nov 8, 2015

Astute said:
Are we not?

There are clubs hanging on in the Championship. Once they get relegated they will be in the shit. We have been there and are now presently on the way back up.

The state of a lot of clubs is dire. But many only notice what is going on at their own club. SISU have taken the hit. As a club we are not full of debt. And with the way we are being run now we will not be overcome with debt like other clubs. We are in a much better place than many notice or would like to admit to. The one thing we do need is our own home. But that will have to wait.

So we have no dept?
What hit have Sisu taken
And as you say we own fuck all so how are we in a better place then them?
No pie or car park money! Doomed I tell you Doomed....

Astute · Nov 8, 2015

letsallsingtogether said:
So we have no dept?
What hit have Sisu taken
And as you say we own fuck all so how are we in a better place then them?
No pie or car park money! Doomed I tell you Doomed....

Try looking at the clubs that owe countless millions more than their grounds are worth for starters.

We are not in a good place. But we have not been in a good place for a lot of years. Hopefully we have bottomed out. There are many clubs on their way down after chasing the Prem dream.

Like I said many only see what is happening to their own club.

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