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Victor Torp (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Saddlebrains
  • Start date Jun 7, 2024
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #666
TomRad85 said:
View attachment 40004

Doesn't look a huge step up on Rudoni.
Click to expand...

TBF Rudonis stats are pumped as corner taker.
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #667
shmmeee said:
TBF Rudonis stats are pumped as corner taker.
Click to expand...
Some yes, some no. I prefer the eye test but arguments on here these days tend to be settled with graphs and charts and there it is. No much between them imo.
Luckily Ben Wilson looks shite with both the eye test and the chart test so that's an easy one to argue.
 
Reactions: Hutch11

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #668
TomRad85 said:
Some yes, some no. I prefer the eye test but arguments on here these days tend to be settled with graphs and charts and there it is. No much between them imo.
Luckily Ben Wilson looks shite with both the eye test and the chart test so that's an easy one to argue.
Click to expand...

Ive seen people quote crosses, assists, shot creating actions against O’Hare and others. You can’t compared because one takes corners and the other doesn’t and all those stats are boosted by corner taking.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #669
TomRad85 said:
View attachment 40004

Doesn't look a huge step up on Rudoni.
Click to expand...
Considering the difference in minutes there, Colwill’s numbers are clearly superior

Reading that it seems like Rudoni’s job for us is to just hammer in crosses all day long!
 
Reactions: SkyBlue_Bear83

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #670
SBT said:
Reading that it seems like Rudoni’s job for us is to just hammer in crosses all day long!
Click to expand...

Or take corners as it’s known…
 
Reactions: SBT

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #671
SBT said:
Considering the difference in minutes there, Colwill’s numbers are clearly superior

Reading that it seems like Rudoni’s job for us is to just hammer in crosses all day long!
Click to expand...
The difference in minutes is about 1 game unless my brain isn't working? Its early so possible.
 
Reactions: Skyblueweeman and wingy

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #672
Rudoni taking a good corner also isn't a bad thing. It's the one thing we actually do better this season.
 
Reactions: StrettoBoy and Gibbo
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #673
TomRad85 said:
The difference in minutes is about 1 game unless my brain isn't working? Its early so possible.
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s like one and a bit games difference
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #674


Rudoni vs O'Hare for reference.
 
Reactions: Gibbo, Skyblueweeman and Sky Blue Goblin

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #675
Not worth doing a Kasey Palmer one as the minutes aren't even close as even Hull have realised what Palmer is all about.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #676
TomRad85 said:
View attachment 40005

Rudoni vs O'Hare for reference.
Click to expand...
Clearly an upgrade then. The only stat that COH outperforms Rudoni significantly is the amount he’s been fouled…
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Goblin and TomRad85
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #677
shmmeee said:
Ive seen people quote crosses, assists, shot creating actions against O’Hare and others. You can’t compared because one takes corners and the other doesn’t and all those stats are boosted by corner taking.
Click to expand...

Fbref is good because it has an overall shot creating actions number but also breaks it down into different types, so you can discount dead ball situations for those players that take corners

Rudoni creates more than O’Hare this season, even when you take away his corners and free kicks.

 
Reactions: Sky Blue Goblin, shmmeee and TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #678
PVA said:
Fbref is good because it has an overall shot creating actions number but also breaks it down into different types, so you can discount dead ball situations for those players that take corners

Rudoni creates more than O’Hare this season, even when you take away his corners and free kicks.

View attachment 40006
Click to expand...
We don't really miss O'Hare imo. The old O'Hare sure but he doesn't seem to be that player anymore and he really fell away after his short career best purple patch last season.

I quite like Rudoni, he's suffering slightly from playing in a team with no confidence but he's been ok and i also expect him to get better.
 
Reactions: Gibbo, StrettoBoy, Mr Meaners and 4 others

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #679
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Clearly an upgrade then. The only stat that COH outperforms Rudoni significantly is the amount he’s been fouled…
Click to expand...
Which TBF is because of his willingness to take the ball in tight positions with his back to goal, something we desperately miss as Van Ewijk looks for a pass again......
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9 and Viktor17
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #680
TomRad85 said:
We don't really miss O'Hare imo. The old O'Hare sure but he doesn't seem to be that player anymore and he really fell away after his short career best purple patch last season.

I quite like Rudoni, he's suffering slightly from playing in a team with no confidence but he's been ok and i also expect him to get better.
Click to expand...

Yes agree on Rudoni. He sometimes fades away a little, but he's not alone in that, and his output is pretty good.

One of the better performers of the season so far (along with Eccles and Wright and...that's about it).
 
Reactions: TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #681
PVA said:
Yes agree on Rudoni. He sometimes fades away a little, but he's not alone in that, and his output is pretty good.

One of the better performers of the season so far (along with Eccles and Wright and...that's about it).
Click to expand...
That is literally it. Now Wright is injured and Eccles is going through a slight dip in form recently. What a time to be alive,
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #682
TomRad85 said:
We don't really miss O'Hare imo. The old O'Hare sure but he doesn't seem to be that player anymore and he really fell away after his short career best purple patch last season.

I quite like Rudoni, he's suffering slightly from playing in a team with no confidence but he's been ok and i also expect him to get better.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think we lose a couple of things O’Hare brought us, ability to take the ball on the half turn and break lines, energy and being an option for a pass, general intricate passing around the box. Palmer at his best gave us some of that too if not often enough. Rudoni is better in other areas, his final product and general passing is better than both. We really miss someone who drives and commits players in the middle with no Hamer O’Hare or Palmer though.
 
Reactions: Gibbo, fatso and CCFCSteve

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #683
Otis said:
Yeah. Never thought I would say I was for Sheaf being dropped, but he's just not showing it right now
Click to expand...
If he’s really having injections before games then it would make more sense for him to be on the bench for now rather than risk aggravating things.
 
Reactions: SBAndy and Nuskyblue

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #684
shmmeee said:
Yeah I think we lose a couple of things O’Hare brought us, ability to take the ball on the half turn and break lines, energy and being an option for a pass, general intricate passing around the box. Palmer at his best gave us some of that too if not often enough. Rudoni is better in other areas, his final product and general passing is better than both. We really miss someone who drives and commits players in the middle with no Hamer O’Hare or Palmer though.
Click to expand...
I'd agree with that. Add it to the January wish list.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #685
Torp has to start for me this weekend. I think Lampard will learn to utilise him well. That goal against Sheffield W came on my twitter feed the other day, what a hit.
 
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edgy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #686
Ccfcisparks said:
Torp has to start for me this weekend. I think Lampard will learn to utilise him well. That goal against Sheffield W came on my twitter feed the other day, what a hit.
Click to expand...

He has Lampard like attributes. I think he will become a regular starter.
 
Reactions: Gibbo, SkyBlueSam01 and itsabuzzard

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #687
shmmeee said:
Yeah I think we lose a couple of things O’Hare brought us, ability to take the ball on the half turn and break lines, energy and being an option for a pass, general intricate passing around the box. Palmer at his best gave us some of that too if not often enough. Rudoni is better in other areas, his final product and general passing is better than both. We really miss someone who drives and commits players in the middle with no Hamer O’Hare or Palmer though.
Click to expand...

Yeah we fundamentally lack a decent ball carrier. It's all good having players that can pass the ball, but if you can't take it in tight spaces and take players out of position then it's very easy to defend against. For all our attacking talent it's one thing we lack further up the pitch.
 
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False9

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #688
We need to find a place for him in the midfield.
As good as Eccles and sheaf can be, I think they're too similar to be a successful partnership.
 
Reactions: Gibbo and Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #689
False9 said:
We need to find a place for him in the midfield.
As good as Eccles and sheaf can be, I think they're too similar to be a successful partnership.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Its not the same issue exactly, but last pre-season at Bayern Munich, Tuchel wanted a different profile of midfielder as Goretzka and Kimmich as a partnership would struggle to break down certain types of teams. Both CMs are top class but it’s about picking and recruiting the best players that fit into a tactical system rather than the individuals.

Sheaf and Eccles are both quality midfielders in this league. As a pair, we’ve struggled to break down the better teams in the division last season and this season that’s extended to the weaker, more defensively stubborn teams.

I will caveat the above by saying this issue isn’t as exposed if we’re not conceding 2 goals a game which has happened 10-12 times this season in all competitions.
 
Reactions: False9
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #690
edgy said:
He has Lampard like attributes.
Click to expand...
In what way?

I like Torp, but he’s often much too careless with the ball, especially in our own half. Until he fixes that then he’s difficult to trust. Maybe playing him further forward helps with that.
 

Sky Blue Goblin

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #691
Think with Torp it will be interesting to see how Lampard utilises him. Got a good shot and I think it a clever footballer.

Think Adi referred to him as a 8 so might be good to start ahead of Eccles or sheaf (personally if sheaf is still on injections he shouldn’t be starting games) to see how he gets on.
 

edgy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #692
SBT said:
In what way?

I like Torp, but he’s often much too careless with the ball, especially in our own half. Until he fixes that then he’s difficult to trust. Maybe playing him further forward helps with that.
Click to expand...

He makes runs (without the ball) past the striker. Which is really important when you are essentially only playing one upfront. He very nearly scored a brave header the other week by doing just that. And remember his goal at Wembley - it's those type of runs which remind me of Lampard. Like you say though he needs to play further forward.

He also strikes the ball very well with different techniques.
 
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #693
edgy said:
He has Lampard like attributes. I think he will become a regular starter.
Click to expand...

I thought we'd found the next Hamer when he banged that in on debut.

Obviously hasn't hit those heights but there's definitely a good player in there.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 4, 2024
  • #694
shmmeee said:
Yeah I think we lose a couple of things O’Hare brought us, ability to take the ball on the half turn and break lines, energy and being an option for a pass, general intricate passing around the box. Palmer at his best gave us some of that too if not often enough. Rudoni is better in other areas, his final product and general passing is better than both. We really miss someone who drives and commits players in the middle with no Hamer O’Hare or Palmer though.
Click to expand...
this is a good point. In the play off season both palmer and hamer were good at a rapid transference from defence to attack straight down the middle of the pitch (O'Hare was injured for the second half). We have really missed that drive. It has all been dinky doo, give the opposition time to get set, then we'll think about it.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

KG7

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #695
Think Torp has shown flashes of being the kind of midfielder we need, he is excellent at reading the game defensively, often anticipates where the ball is going (like Hamer could). His closing down is good, but there's still a high percentage of times where he doesn't win the ball (could be confidence, could be strength).

Offensively, vision, quality on the ball, dangerous within range of goal all good but he gets robbed too easily.

I think six months with the right coach and he could prove to be a pivotal player for us.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Goblin

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #696
KG7 said:
Think Torp has shown flashes of being the kind of midfielder we need, he is excellent at reading the game defensively, often anticipates where the ball is going (like Hamer could). His closing down is good, but there's still a high percentage of times where he doesn't win the ball (could be confidence, could be strength).

Offensively, vision, quality on the ball, dangerous within range of goal all good but he gets robbed too easily.

I think six months with the right coach and he could prove to be a pivotal player for us.
Click to expand...
This is a nonsense, his tackling has been statistically the best in our team this season.
 

Offhegoes

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #697
Sheaf / Eccles - Rudoni
Torp

That should be our midfield, in the 4-3-3 formation. Allow Torp to get forward, and Rudoni as the more attacking of the CMs.
if MVE's form continues, I wouldn't be against having a look at Eccles there. I think he'd be a better RB than RWB.
 
Reactions: Bristol sky blue

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #698
We are lacking that drive and tenacity that Hamer bought us. I don't think any of our current midfield offer that.
 

Sky Blue Goblin

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #699
Offhegoes said:
Sheaf / Eccles - Rudoni
Torp

That should be our midfield, in the 4-3-3 formation. Allow Torp to get forward, and Rudoni as the more attacking of the CMs.
if MVE's form continues, I wouldn't be against having a look at Eccles there. I think he'd be a better RB than RWB.
Click to expand...
Would mind this as us moving forward and would be what I’d try if Sheaf is taking injections.

Eccles and Torp as the two 8s and Rudoni as the 10 false nine role.
 

KG7

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 5, 2024
  • #700
Ccfcisparks said:
This is a nonsense, his tackling has been statistically the best in our team this season.
Click to expand...
It's not nonsense, it's an observation. Happy to take a stat and say I was wrong on my only criticism of him defensively and that he's performing better in that area than I thought.
 
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