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USSR invades Ukraine. (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,396
Evo1883 said:
Nato will protect its member states , and Russia I believe know that
Click to expand...

So why not add Ukraine to that?

To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,397
shmmeee said:
So why not add Ukraine to that?

To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
Click to expand...

Let's be brutally honest , the world will watch a country fall to save global conflict , save lives and money .. that's the reality .. the fact Ukraine aren't a part of nato affords the world that luxury.. thats the uncomfortable truth
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, RegTheDonk, Otis and 4 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,398
shmmeee said:
I don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.

I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?

Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.

Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.

You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.
Click to expand...
That’s the difference for me but Iran and Russia and others don’t agree. They see it as double standards. But I agree it’s a sovereign nation being bombed to shit
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,399
Evo1883 said:
Let's be brutally honest , the world will watch a country fall to save global conflict , save lives and money .. that's the reality .. the fact Ukraine aren't a part of nato affords the world that luxury.. thats the uncomfortable truth
Click to expand...

Im not sure how scuppering peace talks in a conflict that’s killing thousands and raising fuel and food prices globally achieves those aims.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,400
Grendel said:
bizarre
Click to expand...
It is yes
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,401
If they were going to help Ukraine directly they already would have surely ?
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,402
shmmeee said:
Im not sure how scuppering peace talks in a conflict that’s killing thousands and raising fuel and food prices globally achieves those aims.
Click to expand...

To be clear , fuel and food were already rising
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,403
Evo1883 said:
To be clear , fuel and food were already rising
Click to expand...

And now they’re rising even more. Do you realise how much food Ukraine supplies to the world?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,404
shmmeee said:
And now they’re rising even more. Do you realise how much food Ukraine supplies to the world?
Click to expand...
Ofcourse but let's not make out we weren't on our way to food poverty pre war
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,405
Evo1883 said:
If they were going to help Ukraine directly they already would have surely ?
Click to expand...

I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.

I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as severe reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, duffer, CCFCSteve and 2 others

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,406
shmmeee said:
I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.

I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as sever reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
Click to expand...

OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Marty

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,407
Evo1883 said:
OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
Click to expand...

His argument has changed in the previous 10 minutes. Now he's more concerned with keeping his weight above 20 stone. Keep the vaccines and food flowing boys.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,408
Evo1883 said:
OK I assumed you wanted the world to directly go in and intervene
Click to expand...

Not right now, no. I think we’ve left it too late to be able to do that. But anything and everything short of that, yes.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
K

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,409
Let's be honest Russia will take ukraine eventually, there sheer numbers can mean they just throw 100k troops at a time, but there is no denying Russia have under estimated the resistance hence them resorting to bombing everywhere, just hope a agreement is made before they kill 10s thousands.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,410
shmmeee said:
Not right now, no. I think we’ve left it too late to be able to do that. But anything and everything short of that, yes.
Click to expand...
OK fair enough , I'm with you no argument
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,411
Marty said:
His argument has changed in the previous 10 minutes. Now he's more concerned with keeping his weight above 20 stone. Keep the vaccines and food flowing boys.
Click to expand...

I don’t think I’ve ever argued for direct intervention, this current spat came from me saying the proposed peace talks sounded like a good deal and Grendel saying then I should start my basic training and target practice.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,412
Kieranp96 said:
Let's be honest Russia will take ukraine eventually, there sheer numbers can mean they just throw 100k troops at a time
Click to expand...

They've already committed around 55% of their entire ground forces. That is a huge chunk.
 
X

xcraigx

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,413

Mariupol deputy mayor says around 1,200 were sheltering inside.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,414
xcraigx said:

Mariupol deputy mayor says around 1,200 were sheltering inside.
Click to expand...
Bastards
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,415
You'd like to think they didn't know it was being used as shelter but that's almost certainly giving those cunts too much respect.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,416
shmmeee said:
I don’t think I’ve ever argued for direct intervention, this current spat came from me saying the proposed peace talks sounded like a good deal and Grendel saying then I should start my basic training and target practice.
Click to expand...

looks like an SBT military retreat to me
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,417
shmmeee said:
I think there’s some confusion here about what is being said. Mostly due to Grendels trolling.

I think we should right now be doing everything short of direct military intervention, including cyber attacks and stronger sanctions as well as severe reductions in Russian energy imports, but I also think if Ukraine negotiates a peace treaty contingent on security assurances we (as in democratic nations not the U.K.) should be willing to support that.
Click to expand...

“Grendel trolling”

you literally are 5 years old. I think it started by accusing me of being a coward - a real sane argument - than a bizarre series of rants when you soldiers are there to go to war - felt a bit silly then hastily backtracked

wow you really have true Dunkirk spirit don’t you

oh and I said about serious sanctions and you said I’m being silly as we’d all be cold at night with no heating
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,418
Marty said:
If you're that bothered, book your flight and fuck off too Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Trolling according to War Hero shmmeee
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,419
shmmeee said:
So why not add Ukraine to that?

To be clear, you’re saying if a peace agreement is reached that involves the west giving security guarantees to Ukraine you’d say no and scupper those peace talks?
Click to expand...

we.might.have.a.problem.with.that.as.Crimea.is.occupied.by.a.not.NATO.force
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,420
Evo1883 said:
I'd imagine British soldiers are quite uncomfortable with the amount of people happy to see them sent off to die in somebody else's war , whilst they sip latte at Costa
Click to expand...

I think that’s unfair

Iced vanilla mocha maybe

and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
 
Reactions: Evo1883

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,421
Grendel said:
I think that’s unfair

Iced vanilla mocha maybe

and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
Click to expand...
So long as your as critical of those that value Ukraine civilians life below their fellow countrymen because they were unlucky to be born in a different country. Grow up
 
Last edited: Mar 16, 2022

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,422
This article on RT via vpn / japan server Article 17:22 16/3/22 Not sure what time zone?

Some hope of a settlement but boy, the Russians have a strange view on who started this most recent conflict.

Details of possible Ukraine peace deal revealed – media
While a Financial Times report suggests a plan to end the conflict is at hand, mixed signals abound

FILE PHOTO: Delegations attend as the second round of Russia-Ukraine peace talks in Brest, Belarus, March 3, 2022. © Getty Images / Foreign Ministry of Belarus
Ukraine and Russia have taken steps toward a “15-point peace plan” that would see Russian forces withdraw in exchange for a pledge of neutrality by Ukraine, the Financial Times reported on Wednesday. However, sticking points remain, and both sides have issued mixed statements on the prospects of imminent peace.
Citing three people involved in negotiations, the news outlet said that a deal was being worked out whereby Ukraine would renounce its ambitions to join NATO – a move that would require changing the country’s constitution – and refusing to host any foreign military bases or weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the US, UK, and Turkey.
Russia would cease hostilities and withdraw its forces from Ukrainian territory in exchange for this neutrality pledge, while Ukraine would be allowed to keep its army, the newspaper reported.

People involved in the deal told the paper that Russian-speakers in Ukraine would receive guarantees that their language rights and other humanitarian concerns would be safeguarded, although Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak said that Kiev would only agree to this if these issues were in line with “Ukraine’s exclusive interests.”
Likewise, the status of Crimea – which voted to rejoin Russia in 2014 – and the Donbass republics – recognized by Russian President Vladimir Putin two days before the outbreak of hostilities last month – remain sticking points toward any deal.
With talks ongoing, Kremlin Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov on Wednesday called it “premature to disclose any sets of agreements.” However, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that both sides were “close” to agreeing to “absolutely specific wordings” in the negotiations.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has repeatedly stated that he is ready to talk directly with Putin to bring about a settlement, but Lavrov told reporters on Wednesday that the Ukrainian leader has yet to take any further steps. Putin, he said, has declared his willingness to talk, but Zelensky has made statements like this for the sake of “publicity,” he added.

While Zelensky has talked up his willingness to meet with Putin, and conceded on Tuesday that Ukraine will not be allowed to join NATO, he has nevertheless continued to lobby Western leaders to intervene in the conflict. In a video address to US lawmakers on Wednesday, he reiterated calls for a NATO-enforced “no-fly zone” over Ukraine, even though the Biden administration and NATO leadership have stated that this could possibly lead to a direct confrontation with Russia.
And while Putin has previously accused Zelensky of “not showing a serious commitment to finding mutually acceptable solutions,” Lavrov on Wednesday praised the Ukrainian leader’s “change of rhetoric” on NATO membership.
Moscow attacked its neighbor in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk. The German- and French-brokered protocols were designed to regularize the status of those regions within the Ukrainian state.
Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join NATO. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied claims it was planning to retake the two republics by force.


An another thing... The narrative on their live bulletins is unbelievable. They describe 'guerilla' forces attacking convoys of humanitarian aid, locals being rounded up after they have been seen filming the convoys. Attacks from forests. Russian forces partially forced Ukranian forces out of areas in Mauripol.

Rolling footage of the conflict in Donbass in 2015 and the local's hatred of Kiev. Mass evacuation of Russian speaking citizens in 2015 and following Militia in conflict against Ukrainian forces.
 
Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,423
Sky Blue Pete said:
So long as your as critical of those that value Ukraine civilians life below their fellow countrymen because they were unlucky to be both in a different country. Grow up
Click to expand...

well people only value said lives as long as they can sit at home - as Shmmeee says he’s got skills elsewhere - In other words at home and other less superior beings can do tbe nasty fighting

I’m honest - it’s a real world situation which we have no more part in than legally or morally than other conflicts across the world. We have to care as they are European (so Africans I guess less so)

Nope we are scared as it might impact us. We don’t value Ukraine lives at all in terms of the impact in their country. We certainly wouldn’t if it was the killing fields in Asia
 
Reactions: Marty

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,424
Marty said:
If you're that bothered, book your flight and fuck off too Ukraine.
Click to expand...

What an arsehole thing to say. Are you 14 or something?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,425
Grendel said:
well people only value said lives as long as they can sit at home - as Shmmeee says he’s got skills elsewhere - In other words at home and other less superior beings can do tbe nasty fighting

I’m honest - it’s a real world situation which we have no more part in than legally or morally than other conflicts across the world. We have to care as they are European (so Africans I guess less so)

Nope we are scared as it might impact us. We don’t value Ukraine lives at all in terms of the impact in their country. We certainly wouldn’t if it was the killing fields in Asia
Click to expand...
You would and do and I would and do. I’m also pretty certain most on here do too
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,426
duffer said:
What an arsehole thing to say. Are you 14 or something?
Click to expand...

I assume you also will not be volunteering - you even wanted a no fly zone which would escalate it to world war 3!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,427
Sky Blue Pete said:
You would and do and I would and do. I’m also pretty certain most on here do too
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t want us as a nation to military do a thing about it
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,428
It looks like there is a lot of money going back towards Russia. (People taking money back into the country or speculators? ) The rouble has risen 25% against the massive falls last week.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,429
Grendel said:
I think that’s unfair

Iced vanilla mocha maybe

and they’d get PTSD if a copy of the guardian wasn’t available
Click to expand...

You quite literally sound like Putin


And it’s an oat milk latte thanks, but not from Costa, their coffee is shite.
 
K

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,430
PVA said:
They've already committed around 55% of their entire ground forces. That is a huge chunk.
Click to expand...
Do they? I swear they have like 2.2m active personel.
 
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