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USSR invades Ukraine. (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 15, 2022
  • #3,326
Sky Blue Pete said:
It is
Click to expand...
It’s quite possible that was the point of the attack on the military base near Poland yesterday too. As far as I can tell that’s where all the volunteer veterans were staying while waiting for arms before deployment. It’s getting reminiscent of the scud missile attacks on Israel by Sadam Husain in the initial gulf war. Same for the military aid request to China. I think if Russia is getting arms support from China it means China is involved as far as Russia is concerned. Hopefully the actions of a desperate man that ultimately fail.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 15, 2022
  • #3,327
Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?
 
Reactions: clint van damme

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 15, 2022
  • #3,328
SBT said:
Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?
Click to expand...
That's the point where it's difficult to imagine the thoughts of a madman, but like I said before it may well be he knows he's very ill and often people with his kind of mindset think the world is worthless without them in it, so if it ends in hellfire it doesn't matter. Other option is that isolation during covid without rational voices to temper his major ambitions mean he's lost his mind to his desires and now no-one dare try and discourage him.
 
Reactions: Grendel
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 15, 2022
  • #3,329
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
That's the point where it's difficult to imagine the thoughts of a madman, but like I said before it may well be he knows he's very ill and often people with his kind of mindset think the world is worthless without them in it, so if it ends in hellfire it doesn't matter. Other option is that isolation during covid without rational voices to temper his major ambitions mean he's lost his mind to his desires and now no-one dare try and discourage him.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry……what?
 

AOM

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 15, 2022
  • #3,330
SBT said:
Why does Russia want to goad the west into a military conflict?
Click to expand...

I don't really understand this theory either.
Can't see Russia (or I'd realistically anyone) gaining from a World War scenario, and surely they'd want to act first rather than let the west leap into action and make the first attack?

I guess it might prove to the Russian people the threat of the west is real, but doesn't seem a good enough reason to force things to really kick off to me
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,331
AOM said:
I don't really understand this theory either.
Can't see Russia (or I'd realistically anyone) gaining from a World War scenario, and surely they'd want to act first rather than let the west leap into action and make the first attack?

I guess it might prove to the Russian people the threat of the west is real, but doesn't seem a good enough reason to force things to really kick off to me
Click to expand...
You think they are killing journalists accidently??
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,332
The Russian advance seems to have come to a halt.

Seems the only way they can take Kyiv is if they absolutely flatten it. Hopefully they do not go down that route but we know they have form for it.

This invasion becomes a bigger mistake by Putin by the day and harder to win with each passing day.
 
Reactions: AOM and duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,333
Sky Blue Pete said:
You think they are killing journalists accidently??
Click to expand...

I think the reason for targeting journalists is to try to suppress independent reporting of the war.

There are two reasons I can think of for that; firstly the war clearly isn't going as planned, and secondly the Russian forces are also committing war crimes by directly and deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.

Above all other things though, tyrants of all kinds of can't bear an independent press (even at the best of times). It's no surprise to me that they are at risk.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and AOM

AOM

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,334
Sky Blue Pete said:
You think they are killing journalists accidently??
Click to expand...

Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,335
AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?
Click to expand...

its a bizarre theory
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,336
AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?
Click to expand...
Isn’t Putin already in a scenario that he can’t win? Not saying 100% he’s trying to start WW3, just pointing out that going into a scenario he can’t win isn’t a deterrent to Putin.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

AOM

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,337
skybluetony176 said:
Isn’t Putin already in a scenario that he can’t win? Not saying 100% he’s trying to start WW3, just pointing out that going into a scenario he can’t win isn’t a deterrent to Putin.
Click to expand...

True. Maybe he thought Ukraine would be a lot easier than it has been?
Going against a combined western force would be madness though. Hopefully doesn't come to that
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,338
I don't think he's actively targetting foreign journos, not when you've got loads of people uploading their own mobile footage. More likely he's not bothered what civvies get killed in the crossfire. If they're in the way, that's their look out.

I can't see what's to gain by provoking us, he's got enough on his plate, and surely his Generals wouldn't be advising that course. But if he wanted a major ruck then he'd make a direct attack on a NATO country, not fanny around taking out targets/people within Ukraine.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,339
AOM said:
True. Maybe he thought Ukraine would be a lot easier than it has been?
Going against a combined western force would be madness though. Hopefully doesn't come to that
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly he thought Ukraine would be easy. Whether that’s down to his own delusions, his generals telling him that their armed forces are better than they are in reality, or a combination of both coupled to the fact that the Ukrainians are well trained, well equipped and highly motivated. His state of mind seems to be typical of despot dictators, always think they’ve got the upper hand.
 
Reactions: duffer, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, AOM and 1 other person
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,340
Sounds promising


 
Reactions: AOM

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,341
PVA said:
Sounds promising


Click to expand...
And compensation for the death and destruction one would hope
 
Reactions: oakey and AOM

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,342
PVA said:
Sounds promising


Click to expand...

Hopefully something comes of it and the war can stop, but the idea Russia can get a country to act against its own interests with military threat doesn’t sit right with me.
 
Reactions: chiefdave, skyblueinBaku, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and 1 other person

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,343
shmmeee said:
Hopefully something comes of it and the war can stop, but the idea Russia can get a country to act against its own interests with military threat doesn’t sit right with me.
Click to expand...

you keep implying you’d like some military action here from the west to defend Ukraine
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,344
Grendel said:
you keep implying you’d like some military action here from the west to defend Ukraine
Click to expand...

Id like a sovereign nation to make their own decisions and not be left at the whims of a dictator.

What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.
We’ve established you’re a coward who would leave the Ukrainians to their deaths I’m not sure what going over it again accomplishes other than feeding your need for attention.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, JAM See and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,345
shmmeee said:
Id like a sovereign nation to make their own decisions and not be left at the whims of a dictator.

What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.
We’ve established you’re a coward who would leave the Ukrainians to their deaths I’m not sure what going over it again accomplishes other than feeding your need for attention.
Click to expand...

We’ve established i am a coward - so you’d join up and fight? Or send some other idiot to die to satisfy your sense of fair play?

You also seem to be missing a basic point that the leaders of the West (thank God) tend to agree with me and not you and some of the other crackpots on here

That kind of mentality is what started World War 1
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,346
SBT said:
I’m sorry……what?
Click to expand...
Basically, he's doing it because he's either ill and doesn't care about the consequences or he's removed himself from other people to such an extent that there's been been no counter argument to his thought process.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,347
Grendel said:
We’ve established i am a coward - so you’d join up and fight? Or said some other idiot to die to satisfy your sense of fair play?

You also seem to be missing a basic point that the leaders of the West (thank God) tend to agree with me and not you and some of the other crackpots on here

That kind of mentality is what started World War 1
Click to expand...

As I’ve said before I’m not sure how much use I’d be, but sure if conscription happened. I’m not sure why you think conscription would be necessary though.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,348
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Basically, he's doing it because he's either ill and doesn't care about the consequences or he's removed himself from other people to such an extent that there's been been no counter argument to his thought process.
Click to expand...

Oddly dictators don’t really in general engage with counter arguments
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,349
shmmeee said:
As I’ve said before I’m not sure how much use I’d be, but sure if conscription happened. I’m not sure why you think conscription would be necessary though.
Click to expand...

oh no I don’t think one drop of British blood should be lost on Ukrainian soil. I’m not into throwing soldiers out to die personally
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,350
shmmeee said:
What’s being reported here seems reasonable though not sure how the Russians would agree to it.
Click to expand...

Because they've absolutely fucked it. Putin knows it, his generals know it.

I'm sure they can sell Ukraine not joining NATO and no arms from the West as a win back home to the gullible idiots.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,351
AOM said:
Definitely not. I just am unsure about the reason being to attempt to lure the west in to start a World War 3 situation.
What would Russia/Putin gain from that? Surely even Putin knows that's a scenario he can't win?
Click to expand...
It's a question that's been asked before in history but still the wars happen.

I can only guess there is something in the mind of people like Putin and Hitler that makes them believe that they cannot lose. So even if they started such a war they would end up the victors. And every time they get away with something it just increases that belief. That's why they tend to remove themselves from other people when things start going wrong, because they think it can't be their fault it's happening so it must be down to others. Therefore those people are failures and cannot be trusted.
 
Reactions: AOM

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,352
Grendel said:
oh no I don’t think one drop of British blood should be lost on Ukrainian soil. I’m not into throwing soldiers out to die personally
Click to expand...

I have a bit more faith in our armed forces than you. I also have a bit more faith in Putins self preservation mechanisms. Do you really think he’d be doing what he is right now if the US was ready to step in?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,353
shmmeee said:
I have a bit more faith in our armed forces than you. I also have a bit more faith in Putins self preservation mechanisms. Do you really think he’d be doing what he is right now if the US was ready to step in?
Click to expand...

i have a lot of faith in our armed forces I personally don’t see the necessity of creating another pointless episode of bloodshed - in which people will lose sons and husbands - when diplomacy will be a far better outcome

I don’t see it a cowardly act not wanting more wasted British deaths in a trouble zone that’s always been a powder keg since crimea was bizarrely transferred to the soviet state of Ukraine in tbe 50’s. It’s no more valid than Afghanistan or Iraq

The US comment is just stupid - you seem to think this is like a board game. If the US was involved in hostile action against Russia its the first time since the Cuban Missile Crises when the threat of all out nuclear war was very real. Kennedy in tbe end made concessions in turkey because oddly you make concessions

You seriously think the Balkan states, the Middle East and of course China and little rocket man wouldn’t start an escalation process the minute the us defended a non Nato country
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,354
PVA said:
Because they've absolutely fucked it. Putin knows it, his generals know it.

I'm sure they can sell Ukraine not joining NATO and no arms from the West as a win back home to the gullible idiots.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ what’s wrong with you? It’s like a computer game to you isn’t it?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,355
Grendel said:
i have a lot of faith in our armed forces I personally don’t see the necessity of creating another pointless episode of bloodshed - in which people will lose sons and husbands - when diplomacy will be a far better outcome

I don’t see it a cowardly act not wanting more wasted British deaths in a trouble zone that’s always been a powder keg since crimea was bizarrely transferred to the soviet state of Ukraine in tbe 50’s. It’s no more valid than Afghanistan or Iraq

The US comment is just stupid - you seem to think this is like a board game. If the US was involved in hostile action against Russia its the first time since the Cuban Missile Crises when the threat of all out nuclear war was very real. Kennedy in tbe end made concessions in turkey because oddly you make concessions

You seriously think the Balkan states, the Middle East and of course China and little rocket man wouldn’t start an escalation process the minute the us defended a non Nato country
Click to expand...

I don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.

I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?

Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.

Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.

You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.
 
Reactions: duffer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,356
Grendel said:
Jesus Christ what’s wrong with you? It’s like a computer game to you isn’t it?
Click to expand...

What on earth are you on about.

You said it was 'inevitable' that Kiev would have fallen about 10 days ago so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,357
shmmeee said:
I don’t think the Chinese want a world war and the others would follow their lead. I’m not sure how this is like Iraq or Afghanistan, one was a regime change operation this is a democratic European nation asking for support.

I think Putin knows damn well he last five minutes against a nation supported by the likes of the US, I think Ukraine knows this too hence why they’re looking for those reassurances. But I suppose the guy actually running the country also thinks it’s a board game?

Ultimately you see our only obligations as ones to NATO countries because we’ve signed a bit of paper and others see the current dividing lines being drawn up between democracy and authoritarianism.

Bleating about nuclear war is ridiculous as well, the whole point of MAD is it’s basically off the table. Even if Putin was crazy enough to order it you’re betting on the entire chain of command being happy to sign their own death warrants by doing it and we’ve seen before that doesn’t happen.

You’ve let years of watching Russian propaganda dressed up as right wing news rot your brain quite frankly.
Click to expand...

Yet every western leader agrees with me

Fair enough
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,358
Grendel said:
Yet every western leader agrees with me

Fair enough
Click to expand...

Well the one in Ukraine doesn’t for a start.

And we’ve not got to the actual point of any western leader agreeing or disagreeing with the proposals in the peace talks yet.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,359
PVA said:
What on earth are you on about.

You said it was 'inevitable' that Kiev would have fallen about 10 days ago so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Ok. Try telling half the population who have evacuated Kiev, the others cowering as buildings are crushed, the millions evacuating to strange lands with no knowledge if they will ever return, people starving in the eastern provinces that Grendel doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I’m sure they will feel a whole lot better tonight in the knowledge Putin and his generals have fucked it

We really live through the eye glass of social media now don’t we
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 16, 2022
  • #3,360
Grendel said:
Ok. Try telling half the population who have evacuated Kiev, the others cowering as buildings are crushed, the millions evacuating to strange lands with no knowledge if they will ever return, people starving in the eastern provinces that Grendel doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I’m sure they will feel a whole lot better tonight in the knowledge Putin and his generals have fucked it

We really live through the eye glass of social media now don’t we
Click to expand...

Good grief.

You said Kiev would fall within days. It hasn't. You were wrong, massively so.

Just admit it.

Do you really think it's going well for Russia?

Please stop getting your news from GBeebies.
 
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