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USSR invades Ukraine. (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,206
Grendel said:
Of course it’s not the main source but it does give a career history which in Trent’s case suggests his military knowledge is somewhat suspect

I’m sure you’ve read a lot on twitter but sadly it’s not really a place to go with a war - people make things up

They have taken the two major southern cities above crimea Mariupol and Khersen they are landing in Kharkiv have laid siege on a major airport and of course control the nuclear plant which gives 25% of Ukrainian energy

They have moved it seems to Bobyvritsa (?) near to the capital

I’m sure Putin expected less resistance but he has massive military might and you really seem to hoping rather than facing reality that this is going to get very ugly

When in your view will the sanctions work and the army as you put it “collapse”?
Click to expand...

So they've taken the 11th and 17th largest cities in Ukraine.

That is not 'the majority of large cities'

It's as bad as your 'no Eastern European countries have joined NATO in the last 20 years' claim.

I don't know if the army will collapse tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or when. But if things carry on as they are, it will happen, sooner than you think.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,207
PVA said:
So they've taken the 11th and 17th largest cities in Ukraine.

That is not 'the majority of large cities'

It's as bad as your 'no Eastern European countries have joined NATO in the last 20 years' claim.

I don't know if the army will collapse tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or when. But if things carry on as they are, it will happen, sooner than you think.
Click to expand...

You said on the verge of collapse so I want a timeframe please
 
Reactions: Finham

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,208
I get the impression we’re moving towards Putin labelling western sanctions and arming Ukraine as something close to a declaration of war and making further nuclear threats unless it ends.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,209
The whole reason Putin invaded was his concern about Ukraine's possible future membership of NATO and therefore a NATO country on his border.
Heard John Humphries on BBC today saying opinion in Finland has now jumped from roughly 30% of population wishing to join NATO to over 50% .
It's a small population of less than 6 million with a border with Russia of over 850 miles.
Just thinking about the irony of invading Ukraine as far as the possible consequences there might be of having another neighbour suddenly wanting NATO membership.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,210
Usual tosh from Grendel. It's patently obvious that sanctions are having an impact on the Russian economy.

Whether it's enough to alter Putin's behaviour in Ukraine is certainly debatable, but it's obviously hurting which is why Putin is calling them an 'act of war'.

I can't understand why anyone other than a Putin apologist would stand against sanctions. What's interesting is how far this Government is behind the EU in applying them... I thought Brexit was about making us more efficient than the lumbering, bureaucratic, continental Europeans...

UK looking at ways to speed up sanctions against Russian oligarchs

EU accuses UK of lagging behind as Whitehall source says it is ‘weeks behind where it should be’
www.theguardian.com
 
Reactions: stupot07, Finham and PVA

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,211
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
The whole reason Putin invaded was his concern about Ukraine's possible future membership of NATO and therefore a NATO country on his border.
Heard John Humphries on BBC today saying opinion in Finland has now jumped from roughly 30% of population wishing to join NATO to over 50% .
It's a small population of less than 6 million with a border with Russia of over 850 miles.
Just thinking about the irony of invading Ukraine as far as the possible consequences there might be of having another neighbour suddenly wanting NATO membership.
Click to expand...

But David said Finland don’t want to be in nato
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,212
Grendel said:
You said on the verge of collapse so I want a timeframe please
Click to expand...

I've just said I don't know.

I'd like an explanation as to how to the 11th and 17th largest cities constitutes 'the majority of large cities'.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,213
duffer said:
Usual tosh from Grendel. It's patently obvious that sanctions are having an impact on the Russian economy.

Whether it's enough to alter Putin's behaviour in Ukraine is certainly debatable, but it's obviously hurting which is why Putin is calling them an 'act of war'.

I can't understand why anyone other than a Putin apologist would stand against sanctions. What's interesting is how far this Government is behind the EU in applying them... I thought Brexit was about making us more efficient than the lumbering, bureaucratic, continental Europeans...

UK looking at ways to speed up sanctions against Russian oligarchs

EU accuses UK of lagging behind as Whitehall source says it is ‘weeks behind where it should be’
www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

Putin apologist, appeasement, brexit wow it’s bullshit bingo night down in SBT
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,214
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
The whole reason Putin invaded was his concern about Ukraine's possible future membership of NATO and therefore a NATO country on his border.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. That's certainly an element of it.

I think a lot it is mostly he's just an old school imperialist who wants the old Soviet Union back. That's what his mad rambling speech on the eve of war suggested anyway.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,215
Sick Boy said:
I get the impression we’re moving towards Putin labelling western sanctions and arming Ukraine as something close to a declaration of war and making further nuclear threats unless it ends.
Click to expand...

Well he’s already said it but it’s actually the suggestion a no fly zone would be enforced which he’s said is a direct act of war

So there will not be a no fly zone
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,216
Actually @SBT @duffer @PVA zelensky is demanding nato enforce a no fly zone across the whole of Ukraine or the blood will be on the West hands

should this be enforced?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,217
Grendel said:
Putin apologist, appeasement, brexit wow it’s bullshit bingo night down in SBT
Click to expand...

Mate, there would be no point playing bullshit bingo against you; you'd have the house before anyone else could get a line!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,218
duffer said:
Mate, there would be no point playing bullshit bingo against you; you'd have the house before anyone else could get a line!
Click to expand...

Well I’ve asked you a question what’s your answer?
 

Tommo1993

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,219
Another post turns into a weird little spat.
 
Reactions: GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee and shmmeee
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,220
Grendel said:
Actually @SBT @duffer @PVA zelensky is demanding nato enforce a no fly zone across the whole of Ukraine or the blood will be on the West hands

should this be enforced?
Click to expand...

No, IMO. The economic sanctions are our leverage here (at least for the time being). Much rather be doing that than starting WW3.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,221
Tommo1993 said:
Another post turns into a weird little spat.
Click to expand...

Bit more than a spat - agree to a no fly come and it’s WW3
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,222
This is very odd


His hand actually goes through the microphone
 
Reactions: Moff, stupot07, Finham and 1 other person

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,223
Grendel said:
Actually @SBT @duffer @PVA zelensky is demanding nato enforce a no fly zone across the whole of Ukraine or the blood will be on the West hands

should this be enforced?
Click to expand...

Bless. Wrong again. Nuance isn't your strong suit.

I don't think I've 'demanded' a no fly zone, though I've suggested it might be worth considering on the balance of risk if Putin starts firing at nuclear power stations.

Basically you're just making stuff up in your usual, lazy, arrogant matter to deflect from the fact that you'd literally do nothing.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,224
Sick Boy said:
I get the impression we’re moving towards Putin labelling western sanctions and arming Ukraine as something close to a declaration of war and making further nuclear threats unless it ends.
Click to expand...
Already done it.

Bit amateur psychologist here but I think it shows his frustration at the way this has panned out so far. He thought either the West would rush in to help or Ukraine would fall quickly if they didn't.

Ukraine are resisting admirably and the west aren't taking the bait doing things militarily that would allow him to use it as an excuse to the Russian people of Western aggression and therefore war against them. So now he's trying to fit the actions that have been taken into that narrative of being an act of war.

I guess he thinks that as we've held back militarily due to the threat of war with Russia if he moves the goalposts to include sanctions the west will lift them to prevent war. I think once again he'll be sadly disappointed.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Finham

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,225
duffer said:
Bless. Wrong again. Nuance isn't your strong suit.

I don't think I've 'demanded' a no fly zone, though I've suggested it might be worth considering on the balance of risk if Putin starts firing at nuclear power stations.

Basically you're just making stuff up in your usual, lazy, arrogant matter to deflect from the fact that you'd literally do nothing.
Click to expand...

I said Zelensky has and tagged you - are you actuality the Ukrainian PM? Wow
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,226
Sat, 5 March 2022, 4:26 pm


LONDON (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday that Western sanctions on Russia were akin to a declaration of war and warned that any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would lead to catastrophic consequences for the world.
Putin reiterated that his aims were to defend Russian- speaking communities through the "demilitarisation and de-Nazification" of the country so that Russia's former Soviet neighbour became neutral and no longer threatened Russia.
Ukraine and Western countries have dismissed this as a baseless pretext for the invasion he launched on Feb. 24 and have imposed a sweeping range of sanctions aimed at isolating Moscow.
"These sanctions that are being imposed are akin to a declaration of war but thank God it has not come to that," Putin said, speaking to a group of flight attendants at an Aeroflot training centre near Moscow.

He said any attempt by another power to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would be considered by Russia to be a step into the military conflict. Such a step he said would have catastrophic consequences for Europe and the world.
The NATO military alliance has rejected Kyiv's request for a no-fly zone, on the grounds it would escalate the war beyond Ukraine into a far wider conflict, potentially pitting the United States against Russia.
'GOING TO PLAN'
Asked about reports that Russian conscripts had been used in Ukraine, Putin said none had been involved and said the military operation was going to plan.
"There is not one conscript and we don't plan for there to be," Putin said. "Our army will fulfil all the tasks. I don't doubt that at all. Everything is going to plan."
That description was at odds with assessments from U.S. and British officials. British military intelligence said on Thursday that Russia's advance on the Ukrainian capital had made little progress and encountered staunch resistance.
Putin dismissed concerns that some sort of martial law or emergency situation could be declared in Russia. He said such a measure was imposed only when there was significant internal or external threat.
"We don't plan to introduce any kind of special regime on Russian territory - there is currently no need," Putin said.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that the West was behaving like a bandit by cutting economic relations over the conflict in Ukraine but that Russia was far too big to be isolated as the world was much larger than just the United States and Europe.
(Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Frances Kerry)
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,227
duffer said:
Bless. Wrong again. Nuance isn't your strong suit.

I don't think I've 'demanded' a no fly zone, though I've suggested it might be worth considering on the balance of risk if Putin starts firing at nuclear power stations.

Basically you're just making stuff up in your usual, lazy, arrogant matter to deflect from the fact that you'd literally do nothing.
Click to expand...

This literally is David Brent posting
 

Finham

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,228
Sick Boy said:
I get the impression we’re moving towards Putin labelling western sanctions and arming Ukraine as something close to a declaration of war and making further nuclear threats unless it ends.
Click to expand...
I think his comments about sanctions being a declaration of war imply that he doesn't like the impact that they are having. Therefore of course they must continue as it's pretty much all we can do.
 
Reactions: Otis and Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,229
Sick Boy said:
I get the impression we’re moving towards Putin labelling western sanctions and arming Ukraine as something close to a declaration of war and making further nuclear threats unless it ends.
Click to expand...

Let him crack on. Even if he’s unbalanced and feeling suicidal… His kleptocrat friends probably don’t and will probably move against him if the prospect of nuclear Armageddon became a real possibility rather than aggressive posturing.

Putin’s power has always been based on the support of the oligarchs he’s allowed to get richer and richer. They probably do not share his desires for nuclear war.

This reeks of desperation on Russia’s part because their war has not been met with with passive resistance from the West and indeed, Ukraine itself.

This war will bleed Russia. The Ukrainians will not submit to them.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Finham

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,230
Grendel said:
Putin apologist, appeasement, brexit wow it’s bullshit bingo night down in SBT
Click to expand...
What's with your avatar?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,231
Tommo1993 said:
Another post turns into a weird little spat.
Click to expand...

For which I apologise. The long and short of it is that I'm tired of a certain poster's arrogant bullshit and unnecessary insults.

I could live with it until he got all upset at being called out on it; hypocrisy triggers me I guess.

I'll stick to the points and just ignore the stupid stuff...
 
Reactions: PVA and Great_Expectations

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,232
duffer said:
For which I apologise. The long and short of it is that I'm tired of a certain poster's arrogant bullshit and unnecessary insults.

I could live with it until he got all upset at being called out on it; hypocrisy triggers me I guess.

I'll stick to the points and just ignore the stupid stuff...
Click to expand...

I tagged you and asked a question

Your roundabout answer was pretty frightening to be honest
 

Finham

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,233
duffer said:
Mate, there would be no point playing bullshit bingo against you; you'd have the house before anyone else could get a line!
Click to expand...

Key line at 30 secs, "It's surprisingly simple to get total strangers completely furious with you".

Grendel is an energy vampire like Colin Robinson and I claim my five pounds.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,234
Flying Fokker said:
Sat, 5 March 2022, 4:26 pm


LONDON (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday that Western sanctions on Russia were akin to a declaration of war and warned that any attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would lead to catastrophic consequences for the world.
Putin reiterated that his aims were to defend Russian- speaking communities through the "demilitarisation and de-Nazification" of the country so that Russia's former Soviet neighbour became neutral and no longer threatened Russia.
Ukraine and Western countries have dismissed this as a baseless pretext for the invasion he launched on Feb. 24 and have imposed a sweeping range of sanctions aimed at isolating Moscow.
"These sanctions that are being imposed are akin to a declaration of war but thank God it has not come to that," Putin said, speaking to a group of flight attendants at an Aeroflot training centre near Moscow.

He said any attempt by another power to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would be considered by Russia to be a step into the military conflict. Such a step he said would have catastrophic consequences for Europe and the world.
The NATO military alliance has rejected Kyiv's request for a no-fly zone, on the grounds it would escalate the war beyond Ukraine into a far wider conflict, potentially pitting the United States against Russia.
'GOING TO PLAN'
Asked about reports that Russian conscripts had been used in Ukraine, Putin said none had been involved and said the military operation was going to plan.
"There is not one conscript and we don't plan for there to be," Putin said. "Our army will fulfil all the tasks. I don't doubt that at all. Everything is going to plan."
That description was at odds with assessments from U.S. and British officials. British military intelligence said on Thursday that Russia's advance on the Ukrainian capital had made little progress and encountered staunch resistance.
Putin dismissed concerns that some sort of martial law or emergency situation could be declared in Russia. He said such a measure was imposed only when there was significant internal or external threat.
"We don't plan to introduce any kind of special regime on Russian territory - there is currently no need," Putin said.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that the West was behaving like a bandit by cutting economic relations over the conflict in Ukraine but that Russia was far too big to be isolated as the world was much larger than just the United States and Europe.
(Reporting by Reuters; Editing by Frances Kerry)
Click to expand...
He seems to be tying himself in knots here.

Wasn't the premise of invasion that they had to strike first because Ukraine/the West were planning to invade Russia? So wouldn't that be a significant external threat? Which he says there currently isn't as there's no need to bring in martial law or declare an emergency?

Also sets himself up there. Cos now he's said he won't declare those things if he does that would be the first step in losing the faith of the Russian people as he would have said something that turned out to not be true. So they'll start asking what else might not be true.
 
Reactions: duffer

Finham

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,235
Otis said:
This is very odd


His hand actually goes through the microphone
Click to expand...
Conspiracy theory on first viewing: he's not actually there but miles away somewhere safe and this has been beamed in remotely! Hence the stares into distance and lack of any reaction from the people around him.
 
Last edited: Mar 5, 2022

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,236
Finham said:
Conspiracy theory on fist viewing: he's not actually there but miles away somewhere safe and this has been beamed in remotely! Hence the stares into distance and lack of any reaction from the people around him.
Click to expand...
Green screen I think. Must be. Superimposed onto the footage
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Finham

Great_Expectations

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,237
Point scoring on a thread like this is entirely pathetic.

Way too much hypocrisy, whataboutery and Jonny Opposite going on.

Shame as there’s some good points and insight amongst the nonsense.
 
Reactions: Moff, shmmeee, Sky Blue Pete and 3 others
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,238
Otis said:
This is very odd


His hand actually goes through the microphone
Click to expand...

Presumably green screen shenanigans, guessing he's making sure not to give away any clues to his location or making sure people can't see he's hiding in a bunker like a pussy
 
Reactions: Finham

Finham

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,239
PVA said:
Presumably green screen shenanigans, guessing he's making sure not to give away any clues to his location or making sure people can't see he's hiding in a bunker like a pussy
Click to expand...
Indeed, if he's actually there doesn't he make people sit 10 feet away from him?
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 5, 2022
  • #2,240
Grendel said:
You said on the verge of collapse so I want a timeframe please
Click to expand...
You do understand that you’re a grown man? You sound like a kid having a tantrum. I know you’re having a hard time because it must be dawning on you that you were duped into being a Putin asset but holy shit.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9 and duffer
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