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USSR invades Ukraine. (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,471
Deleted member 9744 said:
Wouldn't this start WW3? And a nuclear war.

I am not pretending in any way I know the answer to any of this.
Click to expand...

I would argue letting him take a country because he threatened everyone with nukes if they stepped in sets a precedent that he can just invade elsewhere with the same MO.

If he takes Ukraine he is then on the border of Moldova with another pro Russian separatist movement in addition to the one that already exists in Georgia.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and shmmeee

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,472
tisza said:
What's interesting is when nations like Sweden and Switzerland are getting involved maybe the picture is bigger than people would like to believe.
Click to expand...
China too. Them abstaining rather than vote with Russia in the week is a big statement on it’s own. Then there’s the assumption that China actually likes Russia. There’s a lot of history between them and it’s not all amicable by any stretch. Then there’s the fact that China’s economy is it’s most important thing to it’s ruling class and actually Russia is not a big player in it, the reality is that Russia’s economy on the world stage ain’t that impressive. Is it really worth China’s energy to back a country with an economy about the same size of Spain and isolate itself from the rest of the world and market in the process. People keep saying Taiwan. I can’t help but think that China has been in a position for decades where financially and logistically it’s more than capable of invading and taking Taiwan. I suspect it’s growing economy and wealth trump ideology.

China could yet end up being peacemaker here.
 

Bugsy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,473
David O'Day said:
I was referring to Evo, better luck next time
Click to expand...

It's the way ur coming across all on a hyped up flex. I'm not trying to get one over on u.
 
Reactions: Evo1883
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,474
Otis said:
I don't get all this what if is was Africa, what if it was China etc.

I think what the Chinese are doing to the Uighars is absolutely disgusting and would love to see us do something, but I think the only thing we could do is to boycott trade with them and hope sanctions are agreed upon by an official body.

Russia have actually invaded another country. It's something completely different isn't it and we can only deal with the here and now and I think it was Tizsa, he is quite right, it does affect your thinking when it's closer to home and not some far away place.

I did know of Charles Taylor.

This whole Ukrainian thing is just f*cked up though and we are sitting here and watching the whole thing unfold.

I really wish we could do something. I think Putin knows we won't and I am worried as to which country will be next. He has a desire to take back all the countries that gained their independence back in the 1990's.

I find the whole situation, disgusting, upsetting and quite bemusing too.

And don't ask me what I would do, because I honestly don't know, but I feel we should be doing something. More than what we are.
Click to expand...
Agree with all this, except I am not sure Putin will go into another country quickly.

Like you I don't know what the answer to this problem is, or even if there is one. It's just unbearably sad.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,475
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I simply think this idea of giving up Ukraine with the thought that Putin in good faith will co-operate afterwards is mad. He isn’t a rational actor, that much is very clear
Click to expand...
Yeah, it’s a ridiculous notion.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,476
Evo1883 said:
The aggression is unwarranted , I don't want to hand Ukraine over to Russia, I'm saying what I think is most likely to happen and probably will eventually happen .

The name calling really isn't necessary
Click to expand...

I can accept nobody wants it to happen and the insults at you are out of order. However-the world is at a point where serious war is going to become unavoidable if one country uses the nuclear deterrent as a shield to invade others.

Allowing Ukraine to be taken over would be all the encouragement he needs to do it in other places.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,477
David O'Day said:
No because Russia won't use nuclear weapons as it will end in them being destroyed as well. They still understand MAD
Click to expand...

so nice you have a seat at Mr Putins table
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,478
Bugsy said:
It's the way ur coming across all on a hyped up flex. I'm not trying to get one over on u.
Click to expand...

Didn't say you were, just pointing out I was referring to Evo who has said Ukraine should surrender.

Any way, peace out
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,479
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I can accept nobody wants it to happen and the insults at you are out of order. However-the world is at a point where serious war is going to become unavoidable if one country uses the nuclear deterrent as a shield to invade others.

Allowing Ukraine to be taken over would be all the encouragement he needs to do it in other places.
Click to expand...

So you know more then every western leader?
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,480
We will see , I can't see a way out for Ukraine at this moment in time .

I personally don't think the west fights with Russia to save them either
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,481
tisza said:
Not sure he wants to annex all of the Ukraine. He'll take the 2 new separatist states but put in a new pro-moscow govt for the rest.
Click to expand...
I think this is right. He would want it as a buffer state like Belarus and like places like Romania and Poland were in the past.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,482
Grendel said:
So you know more then every western leader?
Click to expand...

Where on Earth have I made that claim
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,483
skybluetony176 said:
Yeah, it’s a ridiculous notion.
Click to expand...

Proper head wobbling. As well as not stopping the fighting it just gives Putin the confidence to move on to another country
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,484
Why am I still seeing David's posts if he's muted / blocked me
 
Reactions: Grendel

Bugsy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,485
David O'Day said:
Didn't say you were, just pointing out I was referring to Evo who has said Ukraine should surrender.

Any way, peace out
Click to expand...

A Town
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,486
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Where on Earth have I made that claim
Click to expand...

You said if we let him take Ukraine others are at threat. I can assure you the western leaders are not looking at it like that
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,487
Evo1883 said:
What they want , how Ukraine can remain an independent sovereign nation ? The alternative is to see it swallowed up by Russia and not exist , there's also a danger of civil war to discuss as there are many pro Russian Ukrainians..it's a strange region

One thing is certain , there wont be a western planted government in Russia like afghan and iraq
Click to expand...
But they had democratic elections in 2014 and 2018 where the winners wanted to maintain good relations with Russia whilst developing relations with EU - which at the time was not a military force. It only reignited interest in joining NATO following the Russian invasion in 2014.
How do you have an independent sovereign nation which is not allowed to do what its people want?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sky Blue Pete, Deleted member 9744 and 2 others
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,488
Grendel said:
You said if we let him take Ukraine others are at threat. I can assure you the western leaders are not looking at it like that
Click to expand...

Would Western leaders deploy their forces to fight him if he invaded Moldova after a successful conquest of Ukraine? He would simply use the nuclear threat again because it worked the first time.

Isolationism seems to be your preferred strategy and it’s ultimately as risky as trying to squash this invasion in the early stages
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,489
Ford have cut all ties with Russia.

The sanctions are not going to end anytime soon

Also China are getting a bit itchy about Civilian deaths
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,490
Evo1883 said:
Almost 20 % of Ukrainians are ethnically Russian
Click to expand...
Many of who are fighting the Russians including ethnic Russian opposition politicians. One was on C4 news the other day, AK in reach. Ethnicity had no bearings on his beliefs, he believes in Ukraine and believes he’s Ukrainian and stands shoulder to shoulder with his president.
 
Reactions: Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,491
tisza said:
But they had democratic elections in 2014 and 2018 where the winners wanted to maintain good relations with Russia whilst developing relations with EU - which at the time was not a military force. It only reignited interest in joining NATO following the Russian invasion in 2014.
How do you have an independent sovereign nation which is not allowed to do what its people want?
Click to expand...

I don't know what happens here mate , I personally think Ukraine loses this war , and the west don't intervene with its military .

I'd be concerned if they did about what comes next..

I hope sanctions are enough and putin decides it's not worth it all and pulls out , but it feels like that ship is sailing and its already too far gone .
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,492
skybluetony176 said:
China too. Them abstaining rather than vote with Russia in the week is a big statement on it’s own. Then there’s the assumption that China actually likes Russia. There’s a lot of history between them and it’s not all amicable by any stretch. Then there’s the fact that China’s economy is it’s most important thing to it’s ruling class and actually Russia is not a big player in it, the reality is that Russia’s economy on the world stage ain’t that impressive. Is it really worth China’s energy to back a country with an economy about the same size of Spain and isolate itself from the rest of the world and market in the process. People keep saying Taiwan. I can’t help but think that China has been in a position for decades where financially and logistically it’s more than capable of invading and taking Taiwan. I suspect it’s growing economy and wealth trump ideology.

China could yet end up being peacemaker here.
Click to expand...

I think you might be right about chinas potential involvement. They don’t want this escalating into a nuclear war either so it’s also in their interests to get Putin to de-escalate
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,493
skybluetony176 said:
Many of who are fighting the Russians including ethnic Russian opposition politicians. One was on C4 news the other day, AK in reach. Ethnicity had no bearings on his beliefs, he believes in Ukraine and believes he’s Ukrainian and stands shoulder to shoulder with his president.
Click to expand...

There was an actual Russian that had moved to Donetsk who was fighting as well.

Also the president was brought up a Russian speaker.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,494
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Would Western leaders deploy their forces to fight him if he invaded Moldova after a successful conquest of Ukraine? He would simply use the nuclear threat again because it worked the first time.

Isolationism seems to be your preferred strategy and it’s ultimately as risky as trying to squash this invasion in the early stages
Click to expand...

The west will not do anything in Ukraine so either you know more than the collective military strategists in the whole of the west or you don’t

Which is it as they will not do anything.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,495
Grendel said:
The west will not do anything in Ukraine so either you know more than the collective military strategists in the whole of the west or you don’t

Which is it as they will not do anything.
Click to expand...

Where is this me saying I know better? Just what I think the consequences of letting Ukraine fall will be
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,496
I personally agree with grendel here , I don't see the west intervening with its military.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,497
skybluetony176 said:
China too. Them abstaining rather than vote with Russia in the week is a big statement on it’s own. Then there’s the assumption that China actually likes Russia.
Click to expand...
Assumptions made they are close seem to be based on political history ( which no longer apply). It's more an informal collaboration to stymie the Americans. Both are about self- interest and not getting involved in each others business. China's interests are far more global than Russia's.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,498
Please don't put me on ignore for having a differing opinion about what might happen @Brighton Sky Blue
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,499
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy and Sky Blue Pete

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,500
Evo1883 said:
I personally agree with grendel here , I don't see the west intervening with its military.
Click to expand...
Don't think anyone thinks the "west" is getting boots on the ground. Been stated too many times.
Only if atrocities get out of control could see public pressure impact political decision making.
But we are militarily involved with the weapons being sent to Ukraine.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, Sky Blue Pete and Evo1883
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,501
Evo1883 said:
Please don't put me on ignore for having a differing opinion about what might happen @Brighton Sky Blue
Click to expand...

Got a lot of respect for your views. I just disagree about a plan where we try and persuade Putin to give up a territory he’s invested an enormous amount of money, materiel and time in capturing.
 
Reactions: Evo1883

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,502
Evo1883 said:
Click to expand...
Used them with impunity in Syria and "got away" with it. So aren't going to be worried about using them now.
Already using cluster bombs.
These thermobaric bombs are indiscriminate and inhuman.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, Evo1883 and CCFCSteve

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,503
tisza said:
Assumptions made they are close seem to be based on political history ( which no longer apply). It's more an informal collaboration to stymie the Americans. Both are about self- interest and not getting involved in each others business. China's interests are far more global than Russia's.
Click to expand...

china doesn't want the west shifting their supply lines to other developing countries
 
X

xcraigx

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,504
A few days from now many millions of people could well be starving to death in Ukraine, on both sides. Add in power cuts too.

 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 1, 2022
  • #1,505
Evo1883 said:
Click to expand...

If they’re using shit like that then we might have to get involved militarily
 
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