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USSR invades Ukraine. (6 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,121
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Some good points made by people above, it reminds me of the Simpsons when all of Mr Burn´s lawyers are too scared to tell him anything negative and they all just stand there like nodding dogs. Putin is Mr Burns!

View attachment 24004
Click to expand...

‘Long Island Slave Corporation, how’s that doing?’

‘It’s…..steady’
 
Reactions: duffer and Earlsdon_Skyblue1
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,122
CCFCSteve said:
Russia banned from world football. Spartak Moscow chucked out of europa league

How’s Putin going to sell that to the public ?!
Click to expand...
Set up their own World Series?
 
Reactions: MusicDating, Otis, duffer and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,123
Deleted member 5849 said:
Set up their own World Series?
Click to expand...

Take over enough countries to have their own World Cup, with vodka and strippers
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,124
Deleted member 9744 said:
Why would you make it harder for them in these circumstances? We can all get to the CBS but it would be easier for some to go by rail or bus.

Surely any leader with any integrity would be doing all they could to help the people of Ukraine not put barriers in the any.
Click to expand...

Hungary isn't even the best route though, most of the stuff will be coming from teh UK, France, Germany (both German and US) so Germany, Poland, Ukraine is the easiest route
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,125
David O'Day said:
Hungary isn't even the best route though, most of the stuff will be coming from teh UK, France, Germany (both German and US) so Germany, Poland, Ukraine is the easiest route
Click to expand...
OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,126
Deleted member 9744 said:
OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.
Click to expand...

Where did I say it was reasonable, I said it doesn't really make a big difference.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,127
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,128
Deleted member 9744 said:
OK you are right. Perfectly reasonable by Orban to do this. Maybe Slovakia and Romania should do the same.
Click to expand...
Our Government could make the same argument on refugees. Most don't want to come here so let's not allow them in because they can go to other countries.

Can't understand why you want to excuse a reactionary leader like Orban.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,129
Deleted member 9744 said:
Our Government could make the same argument on refugees. Most don't want to come here so let's not allow them in because they can go to other countries.

Can't understand why you want to excuse a reactionary leader like Orban.
Click to expand...

No one did that mate.

why are you making shit up now and talking to yourself
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,130
Heard stories of some Ukrainian kids at Cov schools who went home for half term and are now stuck with the only way back to come without their dads or older brothers.

Heartbreaking stuff really.
 
Reactions: covhead1, Sky Blue Pete, no_loyalty and 2 others

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,131
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Heard stories of some Ukrainian kids at Cov schools who went home for half term and are now stuck with the only way back to come without their dads or older brothers.

Heartbreaking stuff really.
Click to expand...
I guess it is a catch 22 scenario. What a horrible situation to be in. Leave and your are likely to go to prison or fight in a war you never wanted..
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,132
Very angry Russian politician on C4 news tonight. Completely delusion about Ukrainians wanting them there and blaming the Ukrainian government for attacks on civilians, when called out starting going on about Iraq and Afghanistan and basically saying if the West was allowed to invade Iraq and Afghanistan then Russia should be allowed to invade Ukraine. Big red vodka nose too.
 
Reactions: Otis

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,133
Shell are getting out of Russia along with BP.

Their economy is going to take such a kicking
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,134
Evo1883 said:
It's also illegal
Click to expand...

So they are to be judged equally?

The West has been far from perfect, but to bring that up in the present context just lacks perspective.
 
Reactions: Evo1883

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,135
David O'Day said:
Shell are getting out of Russia along with BP.

Their economy is going to take such a kicking
Click to expand...
And then Shell and BP will soften the blow on themselves by hiking up our prices accordingly.
 
Reactions: Marty and no_loyalty

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,136
Mucca Mad Boys said:
So they are to be judged equally?

The West has been far from perfect, but to bring that up in the present context just lacks perspective.
Click to expand...
Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,137
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well let’s consider that at the moment Putin wants to topple the ‘bad’ regime and put in place his own puppet in charge of a pseudo colony.

Then let’s compare with all the times, and there are plenty, that the US invaded countries to remove a ‘bad’ regime and install a favourable one.

None should have happened, but as we have defined ourselves as ‘good’ and Russia and seemingly China as ‘bad’, the Western world is dogpiling Russia economically but did no such thing to the US for all of their own invasions of sovereign states.

Also as above this idea that we’re all in favour of freedom loving democracies falls flat when the US is allied to a high % of dictatorships and turns a blind eye to their own misdemeanours. Yes, what Putin’s doing is wrong and he deserves what’s coming to him. But it’s gross hypocrisy to act like we haven’t done what he’s done many times ourselves. Just we were too big to be challenged.
Click to expand...

Gross hypocrisy?

Say what you like about the more recent, post-Cold War interventions of the West, but we weren’t invading and occupying democratic states.

The global economy deals with unsavoury characters and regimes. After all, this post was made from a phone produced in China. If that’s your yardstick, no one can claim moral superiority anywhere…
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, Evo1883, Sky Blue Pete and 1 other person

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,138
Ian1779 said:
Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.
Click to expand...

Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,139
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…
Click to expand...


People aren’t drawing false equivalence at all, that is just a smearing tool to take away from the fact that people are asking legitimate questions.
 
Reactions: rondog1973 and duffer

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,140
Ian1779 said:
People aren’t drawing false equivalence at all, that is just a smearing tool to take away from the fact that people are asking legitimate questions.
Click to expand...

Considering a few people have said the West are hypocrites on this suggests there is an equivalency being drawn.

Two questions on this:
Are we right to impose sanctions on Russia?
Are we right to send weapons to Ukraine?

If the answer is yes to both questions, it probably tells you what you need to know about the conflict.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,141
Ian1779 said:
Perhaps if we stop with the idea that ‘far from perfect’ is actually OK we may finally start to break this continuous cycle of war and destruction in the pursuit of greed and power.
Click to expand...
Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.
 
Reactions: Ian1779

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,142
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea, what would you define as success?
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,143
Marty said:
Interesting idea, what would you define as success?
Click to expand...
Quality of life, well-being perhaps?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,144
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Agree, but the entire basis of your belief system states that success = money, then greed and power will always be dominant. Until we get away from that being the definition of 'success' we don't stand a chance.
Click to expand...
I think it would be quite nice to live in a world that isn’t defined by ‘the value given to shareholders’
 
Reactions: rondog1973, MusicDating, duffer and 4 others

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,145
Ian1779 said:
Quality of life, well-being perhaps?
Click to expand...

Both of those could be related to money. no?
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,146
Marty said:
Both of those could be related to money. no?
Click to expand...
Related to, but don’t have to be defined by the measure of.
 
Reactions: Otis and Sky_Blue_Dreamer
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,147
Marty said:
Both of those could be related to money. no?
Click to expand...
Well enough of it would make a nice comfy mattress of fifty quid notes I guess.
 
Reactions: Marty

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,148
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Considering a few people have said the West are hypocrites on this suggests there is an equivalency being drawn.

Two questions on this:
Are we right to impose sanctions on Russia?
Are we right to send weapons to Ukraine?

If the answer is yes to both questions, it probably tells you what you need to know about the conflict.
Click to expand...
Yes to both to my mind and most others too.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,149
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Very wooly thinking. There will always conflict.

It’s very disheartening to see people draw false comparisons between this invasion against Ukraine and the invasions against the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and intervention against Gaddafi.

That’s without even accounting for Putin’s nuclear war bluff…
Click to expand...

Saddam Hussein was put in power by the west at the expense of a more moderate leader. Same as the mullahs in Iran.
It is possible to be against those interventions and what Putins doing in Ukraine.

All have had, or will have huge ramifications for every single one of us.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, duffer and Otis

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,150
Marty said:
Interesting idea, what would you define as success?
Click to expand...
As Ian said, things like quality of life, family, friends, free time, enjoying your work, freedom to do what you want to do. Some of those money will help bring them about, but not solely by themselves. In some cases it can tip over into reducing them.

in terms of biological/natural world, you'd take about success in terms of offspring and/or not needing to spend time working to survive , so those that are having a huge amount of children on benefits in a 'natural' sense of success are smashing it. As we're the only species to have ever had money does that mean every other species has not been successful? Including the ones that survived for millions of years longer than humans have been around for thus far?

One way I certainly wouldn't define success is a huge imbalance of wealth with a small number of people having huge amounts of money while others struggle to get by. It leads to hardship, resentment and crime. Neither is aiming to improve growth constantly in a place with finite resources, cos all your doing is using up those resources quicker and quicker and hastening your own eventual demise.

Trouble is those that have that money have all the political influence and so the large number of people who don't set their stall out by the same metric are forced to dance, to some extent at least, by their tune. Imagine if our politicians couldn't be corrupted and influenced by sums of money when creating policy. Imagine if we weren't held back by rich people and organisations preventing progress due to their own investments.

In fact, if you so wished, you could argue the desire for money and wealth when you already have loads is an addiction. If you made the same comparison with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, sex you'd classify it as addiction. So in fact rather it being success, they are in fact, to a certain degree, ill.
 
Reactions: Grendel, duffer, Ian1779 and 1 other person

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,151
For all their efforts to suppress an independent media & social media you'd still think the Russians would grasp the fact that everyone has a phone with a camera/video on it. All these denials inc in the UN about no civilian targeting or casualties and there is video evidence of it all over these platforms.
But the Ukrainians making a tiktok about how to drive an abandoned tank is taking the social media warfare to a new level.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,152
tisza said:
For all their efforts to suppress an independent media & social media you'd still think the Russians would grasp the fact that everyone has a phone with a camera/video on it. All these denials inc in the UN about no civilian targeting or casualties and there is video evidence of it all over these platforms.
But the Ukrainians making a tiktok about how to drive an abandoned tank is taking the social media warfare to a new level.
Click to expand...

Putin is famously tech illiterate
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,153
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Gross hypocrisy?

Say what you like about the more recent, post-Cold War interventions of the West, but we weren’t invading and occupying democratic states.

The global economy deals with unsavoury characters and regimes. After all, this post was made from a phone produced in China. If that’s your yardstick, no one can claim moral superiority anywhere…
Click to expand...

The West has been initiating regime changes in more countries than you can shake a continental stick at for a long time. Some dictators are fine, but the ones who decide not to do what we like or as we say must get removed. We even overthrew a democratically elected Iranian government to install the Shah simply because of oil interests. Turned out well, that. We were also quite happy to let Pinochet overthrow another democratically elected Chilean government for political convenience. Plenty of other examples we could go into there.

In the more recent past there was very serious talk in the US of using military force on Venezuela if their democratically elected leader remained in office. We decide to invade other countries not based on whether the dictator is a threat or criminal, but based on whether they have fallen out of favour or are harbouring some valuable resource. Take Hillary Benn’s applause winning speech demanding bombs be dropped on Syria in the name of freedom at the same time as Boko Haram was unleashing itself on Nigeria.


Longer ago we were the ultimate land grabbers who thought little of invading vast swathes of land and taking what we wanted. We were just as deplorable for doing that then as Putin is for what he is doing now. Many times since we have decided who should lead a country instead of those who actually live there. Just we have managed to do it usually without sending in the armed forces.
 
Reactions: rondog1973, duffer, Sky Blue Pete and 2 others
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,154
Brighton Sky Blue said:
In the more recent past there was very serious talk in the US of using military force on Venezuela if their democratically elected leader remained in office
Click to expand...

Yes, shame on all those who would challenge beacons of democracy like uhhhh [checks notes] Venezuela
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 28, 2022
  • #1,155
SBT said:
Yes, shame on all those who would challenge beacons of democracy like uhhhh [checks notes] Venezuela
Click to expand...
So why not send in a neutral contingent like the UN to sort it, rather than the US. Unless you believe the whole ‘Team America:World Police’ thing.
 
Reactions: TomRad85
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