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USSR invades Ukraine. (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,466
Grendel said:
Where are the purchases from India from?
Click to expand...

Well it's better doing it that way than direct from Russia. But the ban comes in in January, so it'll stop then. Which probably explains Russia's sudden interest in a deal again.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,467
PVA said:
Well it's better doing it that way than direct from Russia. But the ban comes in in January, so it'll stop then. Which probably explains Russia's sudden interest in a deal again.
Click to expand...

The article I’ve just posted said it will do nothing of the sort?

Thoughts on that and the blatant stockpiling?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,468
Grendel said:
The article I’ve just posted said it will do nothing of the sort?

Thoughts on that and the blatant stockpiling?
Click to expand...

No it doesn't.

And I've said it's shit that Russia still gets money indirectly from the EU, I don't think anyone is happy with that so I'm not really sure what you want me to say.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,469
The coalition of the not so willing it seems
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,470
Ooh someone's learned a new phrase. I can see this being the new 'infamous counteroffensive'!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,471
PVA said:
It's not a Starmer-ism, if you're trying to suggest he came up with the phrase.
Click to expand...

He isn’t capable of coming up with anything - he of course copied it from history - and used it for his EU chums to parrot it with him.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,472
wingy said:
When did Boris get rid of our storage for gas?
Click to expand...

It was Centrica (British Gas) who closed the most recent storage facility in 2017 by looks of it. Government refused to subsidise it. Part of successive governments solid energy security plans !!
 
Reactions: wingy
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 23, 2025
  • #10,473
CCFCSteve said:
It was Centrica (British Gas) who closed the most recent storage facility in 2017 by looks of it. Government refused to subsidise it. Part of successive governments solid energy security plans !!
Click to expand...
So after Brexit then, naïve.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,474
“UKRAINE ‘LEADERSHIP’ HAS EXPRESSED ZERO GRATITUDE FOR OUR EFFORTS AND EUROPE CONTINUES TO BUY OIL FROM RUSSIA,” Trump said.

Client Challenge

Also Trump...

Trump gives Hungary one-year exemption from Russian energy sanctions

The opt-out comes despite the US increasing pressure on allies to sever economic ties with Russia.
www.bbc.com

 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,475

Royal Navy intercepts two Russian ships in English Channel

HMS Severn headed off the warship and a tanker as they sailed west through the Dover Strait, the Ministry of Defence said.
www.bbc.co.uk

and Tan Man wonders why no one will just blindly support his big, giant deal. You love to see it.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,476
mmttww said:

Royal Navy intercepts two Russian ships in English Channel

HMS Severn headed off the warship and a tanker as they sailed west through the Dover Strait, the Ministry of Defence said.
www.bbc.co.uk

and Tan Man wonders why no one will just blindly support his big, giant deal. You love to see it.
Click to expand...

If we support his deal isn’t for us the main issue. I don’t love to see us wasting more money propping up a battered country which we have zero interest in and creating more deaths.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,477
Grendel said:
If we support his deal isn’t for us the main issue. I don’t love to see us wasting more money propping up a battered country which we have zero interest in and creating more deaths.
Click to expand...

Doing what are now is the third option i.e. not leave Ukraine to get annexed, and not have to put our own troops on the ground via NATO etc.

If you'd rather leave Putin to grab countries as he sees fit, crack on. I'm glad we and others are at least funding and supporting Ukraine like we are.
 
Reactions: Farmer Jim, eastwoodsdustman and Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,478
mmttww said:
Doing what are now is the third option i.e. not leave Ukraine to get annexed, and not have to put our own troops on the ground via NATO etc.

If you'd rather leave Putin to grab countries as he sees fit, crack on. I'm glad we and others are at least funding and supporting Ukraine like we are.
Click to expand...
You’re talking to someone who genuinely sees no problem with Russia absorbing the biggest country in Europe except for Russia itself. Probably not worth entertaining what he says.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,479
mmttww said:
Doing what are now is the third option i.e. not leave Ukraine to get annexed, and not have to put our own troops on the ground via NATO etc.

If you'd rather leave Putin to grab countries as he sees fit, crack on. I'm glad we and others are at least funding and supporting Ukraine like we are.
Click to expand...

There is never any requirement regarding NATO - we are funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die and are more than happy for it to continue and keep buying as much energy as we need off Russia. History will look very badly on the West regarding this nonsense
 

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,480
Grendel said:
There is never any requirement regarding NATO - we are funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die and are more than happy for it to continue and keep buying as much energy as we need off Russia. History will look very badly on the West regarding this nonsense
Click to expand...
If we don't support Ukraine then it won't just be soldiers that die (not that it is anyway with Russia bombing civilians) there, there will be a genocide there the likes of which haven't been seen in Europe since the 1940's and history will look even worse than us sitting on our hands.
Personally, I am not comfortable with Putin's Russia and their renewed aggression towards Ukraine and the rest of Europe and the fact that they are sending ships up and down our coasts is just another form of them trying to intimidate a smaller country.
 
Reactions: Farmer Jim
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,481
We aren't "funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die", we are funding Ukraine so they don't cease to exist.
 
Last edited: Nov 24, 2025

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,482
PVA said:
We aren't "funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die", we are funding Ukraine so they don't cease to exist.
Click to expand...

Erm how’s that going
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,483
SBAndy said:
Hope this rationalises some of the points:

Click to expand...

This has been confirmed to be true:


 

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,484
Grendel said:
Erm how’s that going
Click to expand...
I would think better than full capitulation followed by thousands of mass graves dotted around.
 
Reactions: PVA

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,485
Grendel said:
we are funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die and are more than happy for it to continue and keep buying as much energy as we need off Russia. History will look very badly on the West regarding this nonsense
Click to expand...

more badly than if we'd told Putin to help himself at the outset? What would you have done? What would you do now?
 
Reactions: Farmer Jim

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,486
Grendel said:
There is never any requirement regarding NATO - we are funding Ukraine to allow their soldiers to die and are more than happy for it to continue and keep buying as much energy as we need off Russia. History will look very badly on the West regarding this nonsense
Click to expand...
Of course. Principled opposition looks like going 'all in' on aid to Ukraine and cutting off all ties with Russia completely, irrespective of the discomfort it would cause us. Europe talks tough but ultimately hasn't put its weight behind Ukraine to give it a realistic chance of winning. Of course France, Germany and indeed the UK is no counterweight to Russia because all of our military spending has been gradually hollowed out to support bloating welfare budgets since the end of the Cold War.

The 'best' outcome for Ukraine is to hold on long enough that there is regime change in Russia. The odds of that happening is remote.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,487
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Of course. Principled opposition looks like going 'all in' on aid to Ukraine and cutting off all ties with Russia completely, irrespective of the discomfort it would cause us. Europe talks tough but ultimately hasn't put its weight behind Ukraine to give it a realistic chance of winning. Of course France, Germany and indeed the UK is no counterweight to Russia because all of our military spending has been gradually hollowed out to support bloating welfare budgets since the end of the Cold War.

The 'best' outcome for Ukraine is to hold on long enough that there is regime change in Russia. The odds of that happening is remote.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what the USA wants tbqh

1. Russia engaged in ongoing warfare
2. Massive new markets to sell liquified gas and whatever else to
 
Reactions: wingy and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,488
fernandopartridge said:
That's exactly what the USA wants tbqh

1. Russia engaged in ongoing warfare
2. Massive new markets to sell liquified gas and whatever else to
Click to expand...

Exactly that was even more obvious under Biden.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,489
mmttww said:
more badly than if we'd told Putin to help himself at the outset? What would you have done? What would you do now?
Click to expand...

The Ukraine war effort is only actually still there due to US military support

I suggest you read the Wolfowitz Doctrine to understand why they became rather eager to prop up Ukraine enough to allow the conflict to continue indefinitely
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,490
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Of course. Principled opposition looks like going 'all in' on aid to Ukraine and cutting off all ties with Russia completely, irrespective of the discomfort it would cause us. Europe talks tough but ultimately hasn't put its weight behind Ukraine to give it a realistic chance of winning. Of course France, Germany and indeed the UK is no counterweight to Russia because all of our military spending has been gradually hollowed out to support bloating welfare budgets since the end of the Cold War.

The 'best' outcome for Ukraine is to hold on long enough that there is regime change in Russia. The odds of that happening is remote.
Click to expand...
Really there were two choices: allow Putin to annexe Ukraine or arm it sufficiently to produce a stalemate to force him to negotiate. Any arming beyond that has been dismissed as something that would provoke him into using his nuclear arsenal.

While absolutely Russian fossil fuels should have stopped being imported, what else could Western leaders have done in response to something Putin started?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,491
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really there were two choices: allow Putin to annexe Ukraine or arm it sufficiently to produce a stalemate to force him to negotiate. Any arming beyond that has been dismissed as something that would provoke him into using his nuclear arsenal.

While absolutely Russian fossil fuels should have stopped being imported, what else could Western leaders have done in response to something Putin started?
Click to expand...

The US have never wanted this war to end? Why can’t you see this?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,492
Grendel said:
The US have never wanted this war to end? Why can’t you see this?
Click to expand...
Is that why Trump spent all that time trying to get a deal signed?
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge and Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,493
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Is that why Trump spent all that time trying to get a deal signed?
Click to expand...

You will never get it.

Trump is really stepping out of line and shoots from the hip but in the end will just carry on with the resistance

Ask yourself this. Why did Biden and the US administration ever get involved at all in a European conflict? Because they believe in the Doctrine - US military policy has seen Russia as a super power threat. So this invasion was perfect. It meant they could prop up a battered country just enough to occupy Russian resources and military troops for years - Ukraine will just carry on fighting and dying but would be kept alive enough to carry on fighting for as long as possible

It’s the American Dream
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,494
Grendel said:
I suggest you read the Wolfowitz Doctrine...
Click to expand...

or you could actually venture your own opinion
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,495
mmttww said:
or you could actually venture your own opinion
Click to expand...

Er that is my opinion. Why don’t you believe this fits into the Doctrine?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,496
Grendel said:
You will never get it.

Trump is really stepping out of line and shoots from the hip but in the end will just carry on with the resistance

Ask yourself this. Why did Biden and the US administration ever get involved at all in a European conflict? Because they believe in the Doctrine - US military policy has seen Russia as a super power threat. So this invasion was perfect. It meant they could prop up a battered country just enough to occupy Russian resources and military troops for years - Ukraine will just carry on fighting and dying but would be kept alive enough to carry on fighting for as long as possible

It’s the American Dream
Click to expand...
I get your position perfectly. Ukraine is irrelevant so we should have let Putin have it.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,497
This 'doctrine' was a draft that never became policy. In fact it was widely criticised and rejected.
 

mmttww

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,498
Grendel said:
Er that is my opinion.
Click to expand...

Your opinion on what should or shouldn't have been done when Putin invaded and what what should or shouldn't be done now is for the conflict to persist because that benefits the US strategically?

One minute it's 'we (UK, EU) are enabling Ukrainians to be killed', now you're telling people to read something from 1992 and going on about why the war dragging out is all down to the US deep state.

I asked what you think should have happened or what should happen now. Not why you think the US is happy for it to rumble on. I asked, because you seem to think what's been done is wrong or cruel.
 
Reactions: wingy

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,499
‘Ukraine provoked Russia into invading’

Vladimir Putin
Sergei Lavrov
Donald Trump
Grendel
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 24, 2025
  • #10,500
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Really there were two choices: allow Putin to annexe Ukraine or arm it sufficiently to produce a stalemate to force him to negotiate. Any arming beyond that has been dismissed as something that would provoke him into using his nuclear arsenal.

While absolutely Russian fossil fuels should have stopped being imported, what else could Western leaders have done in response to something Putin started?
Click to expand...
The Russian economy relies heavily on its gas/oil exports so that would've been a massive step to take. The West as a whole has given Ukraine just enough to sustain its war effort but never enough to win it.

Constant delays in getting equipment to Ukraine and so on whilst buying Russian gas and oil to fund its war in Ukraine.
 
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