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USSR invades Ukraine. (12 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,821
PVA said:
Well yeah, that’s the point. The Ukraine counteroffensive was seen as a massive failure and the Russian Kharkiv offensive seen as a great success, even though they’re basically the same.
Click to expand...
How do you know
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,822
Sky Blue Pete said:
How do you know
Click to expand...
The Russian counteroffensive being labelled a success is something he’s invented.
 
Reactions: PVA
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,823
Sky Blue Pete said:
How do you know
Click to expand...

How do I know what?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,824
Sick Boy said:
The Russian counteroffensive being labelled a success is something he’s invented.
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You were crowing about Russian advances and there were numerous doomsday stories in the media about Russian advances.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,825
It is, however, allowing them to do this. Just disgusting.


 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,826
PVA said:
You were crowing about Russian advances and there were numerous doomsday stories in the media about Russian advances.
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I said back in July last year the war is a stalemate. At the time it was weirdly seen as pro-Russian but now not so much.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,827
PVA said:
It is, however, allowing them to do this. Just disgusting.


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Weird, you were ‘crowing’ about how fabulous it was for America only days ago.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,828
Sick Boy said:
Weird, you were ‘crowing’ about how fabulous it was for America only days ago.
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Your comprehension skills are as impressive as your buddy's then.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,829
Sick Boy said:
I said back in July last year the war is a stalemate. At the time it was weirdly seen as pro-Russian but now not so much.
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I don’t think suggesting it’s a stalemate was seen as pro-Russian. More the comments that Ukraine should cede territory and get on with their lives.

I’d suggest most know the fighting is at a stalemate now but signing a portion of Ukraine over to Russia previously has worked wonders hasn’t it.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,830
PVA said:
I've said all along it's a fantastic way of severely weakening an enemy without losing a single US life so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.
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Oh dear.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,831
SBAndy said:
I don’t think suggesting it’s a stalemate was seen as pro-Russian. More the comments that Ukraine should cede territory and get on with their lives.

I’d suggest most know the fighting is at a stalemate now but signing a portion of Ukraine over to Russia previously has worked wonders hasn’t it.
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At the time it was seen as being pro-Russian and for saying the counter-offensive was a failure. Both are reported by the likes of the BBC now.

Unless the West actively gets involved in the war, there’s little chance of Ukraine reclaiming lost territory. That’s not even considering the territory lost in 2014.

It won’t be said but I’d also imagine concerns and reluctance over funding and weapons is a result of the failed counteroffensive.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,832
Sick Boy said:
Oh dear.
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Yeah because I'm definitely saying there it's fantastic that Russia are bombing innocent people. Fucking hell.

Ok let me break it down for you, as you seem to be struggling.

You and Grendelov have said all along that the US is only in it for themselves and is fighting a proxy war.

I agree, to an extent.

If you think the US is fighting a proxy war against Russia (and clearly they are), then severely damaging their army and capability without losing a single US life is clearly incredibly effective and advantageous for them.

I mean it's really not difficult.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,833
SBAndy said:
I don’t think suggesting it’s a stalemate was seen as pro-Russian. More the comments that Ukraine should cede territory and get on with their lives.

I’d suggest most know the fighting is at a stalemate now but signing a portion of Ukraine over to Russia previously has worked wonders hasn’t it.
Click to expand...

Exactly this
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,834
PVA said:
Yeah because I'm definitely saying there it's fantastic that Russia are bombing innocent people. Fucking hell.

Ok let me break it down for you, as you seem to be struggling.

You and Grendelov have said all along that the US is only in it for themselves and is fighting a proxy war.

I agree, to an extent.

If you think the US is fighting a proxy war against Russia (and clearly they are), then severely damaging their army and capability without losing a single US life is clearly incredibly effective and advantageous for them.

I mean it's really not difficult.
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Wow, you’re so intelligent.

It’s pretty obvious, thanks, but I wouldn’t exactly describe it as “fantastic”.

It’s also clearly not just against Russia, as I’ve mentioned before.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,835
Sick Boy said:
Wow, you’re so intelligent.

It’s pretty obvious, thanks, but I wouldn’t exactly describe it as “fantastic”.

It’s also clearly not just against Russia, as I’ve mentioned before.
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Fantastic from the point of view of the US vs Russia, obviously.

It's not difficult. You've said it yourself.

But when I say it I'm a 'vile c**t'. Absolutely pathetic
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,836
PVA said:
Fantastic from the point of view of the US vs Russia, obviously.

It's not difficult. You've said it yourself.

But when I say it I'm a 'vile c**t'. Absolutely pathetic
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The conflict is clearly not just against Russia; in reality it’s a wider conflict with other countries trying to overcome western dominance.

It’s also easy for Russia to highlight western double standards with what’s going on elsewhere in the world.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,837
PVA said:
Your comprehension skills are as impressive as your buddy's then.
Click to expand...

You just make things up to suit a narrative
 
Reactions: PVA

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,838
PVA said:
Fantastic from the point of view of the US vs Russia, obviously.

It's not difficult. You've said it yourself.

But when I say it I'm a 'vile c**t'. Absolutely pathetic
Click to expand...

It’s a proxy war between east and west with Ukraine as the playground
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,839
Sick Boy said:
The conflict is clearly not just against Russia; in reality it’s a wider conflict with other countries trying to overcome western dominance.

It’s also easy for Russia to highlight western double standards with what’s going on elsewhere in the world.
Click to expand...

That's fine, but nothing to do with the point being made, where you called me a vile c**t for saying the same thing as you.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,840
PVA said:
That's fine, but nothing to do with the point being made, where you called me a vile c**t for saying the same thing as you.
Click to expand...
and you accuse others of comprehension issues
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,841
PVA said:
That's fine, but nothing to do with the point being made, where you called me a vile c**t for saying the same thing as you.
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I’ve never described American foreign policy with a country and its people as collateral as “fantastic”.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,842
Sick Boy said:
I’ve never described American foreign policy with a country and its people as collateral as “fantastic”.
Click to expand...

Again, from the point of the US. I don't know why this is so difficult for you.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,843
Sick Boy said:
I’ve never described American foreign policy with a country and its people as collateral as “fantastic”.
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You said Putin had played a blinder.

PVA has said this US foreign policy opportunity is fantastic.

Can we just accept both terms used are in a purely subjective (from the perception of the ‘party’ involved) manner and neither mean anything in the grand scheme of things?
 
Reactions: PVA

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,844
SBAndy said:
You said Putin had played a blinder.

PVA has said this US foreign policy opportunity is fantastic.

Can we just accept both terms used are in a purely subjective (from the perception of the ‘party’ involved) manner and neither mean anything in the grand scheme of things?
Click to expand...

The irony though is the laughing at the idea it’s a proxy war then actually praising said proxy war from the west.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,845
SBAndy said:
You said Putin had played a blinder.

PVA has said this US foreign policy opportunity is fantastic.

Can we just accept both terms used are in a purely subjective (from the perception of the ‘party’ involved) manner and neither mean anything in the grand scheme of things?
Click to expand...
…I would do if he hadn’t been used to label me pro-Russian, despite calling Putin a c**t.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,846
SBAndy said:
You said Putin had played a blinder.

PVA has said this US foreign policy opportunity is fantastic.

Can we just accept both terms used are in a purely subjective (from the perception of the ‘party’ involved) manner and neither mean anything in the grand scheme of things?
Click to expand...

Indeed. Clearly I wasn't describing the deaths of innocent civilians as 'fantastic'.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 27, 2024
  • #8,847
PVA said:
Indeed. Clearly I wasn't describing the deaths of innocent civilians as 'fantastic'.
Click to expand...

But you were acknowledging it’s a proxy war
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,848
Sick Boy said:
Unless the West actively gets involved in the war, there’s little chance of Ukraine reclaiming lost territory. That’s not even considering the territory lost in 2014.
Click to expand...
And therein lies why conceding territory is pointless. Putin will just come back for more at a later date, especially as he would see Ukraine doing so as them being weak and embolden him.

Anyone who thinks a ceasefire with Ukraine ceding territory will bring an end to the killing it won't. It will just defer it for a few years.
 
Reactions: PVA, eastwoodsdustman and Skybluekyle
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,849
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
And therein lies why conceding territory is pointless. Putin will just come back for more at a later date, especially as he would see Ukraine doing so as them being weak and embolden him.

Anyone who thinks a ceasefire with Ukraine ceding territory will bring an end to the killing it won't. It will just defer it for a few years.
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I agree with this. Unfortunately I also think that the only way to end this in the short term will be a negotiated settlement.

If it’s a negotiated settlement that included Ukraine territory then it would have to be alongside Ukraine joining nato so any future incursion would be against a nato member. Another option could be to suggest to Putin something like, return to pre 2022 and agreement for Ukraine not to join nato unless there is a future incursion - can’t see him going for this currently though. It also requires Ukraine to cede Crimea which I’m not sure they’re willing to do

Any settlement proposal would have to be Ukraines call. These type of solutions would all depend on how strong/weak both sides feel and what appetite they have for continued war and loss of life (let’s be honest Putin doesn’t give a shit)
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,850
CCFCSteve said:
I agree with this. Unfortunately I also think that the only way to end this in the short term will be a negotiated settlement.

If it’s a negotiated settlement that included Ukraine territory then it would have to be alongside Ukraine joining nato so any future incursion would be against a nato member. Another option could be to suggest to Putin something like, return to pre 2022 and agreement for Ukraine not to join nato unless there is a future incursion - can’t see him going for this currently though. It also requires Ukraine to cede Crimea which I’m not sure they’re willing to do

Any settlement proposal would have to be Ukraines call. These type of solutions would all depend on how strong/weak both sides feel and what appetite they have for continued war and loss of life (let’s be honest Putin doesn’t give a shit)
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Ultimately it’s not up to Ukraine though and will be decided by the West. There’s next to no chance of them getting Crimea back without a full scale war with other countries getting involved, which isn’t going to happen.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,851
Sick Boy said:
Ultimately it’s not up to Ukraine though and will be decided by the West. There’s next to no chance of them getting Crimea back without a full scale war with other countries getting involved, which isn’t going to happen.
Click to expand...

The West could try to dictate a solution by withdrawing financial and military support. This is unlikely to happen in the short term unless trump gets in, then who knows. Any solution would obviously require Ukraines buy in/agreement. As a country I get the impression they’d fight to the end
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,852
The population of Ukraine is overwhelmingly against ceding any territory to Russia as part of any peace talks.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,853
PVA said:
The population of Ukraine is overwhelmingly against ceding any territory to Russia as part of any peace talks.
Click to expand...

Kyiv post?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,854
Great banter.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • May 28, 2024
  • #8,855
PVA said:
The population of Ukraine is overwhelmingly against ceding any territory to Russia as part of any peace talks.
Click to expand...
Totally understandable, but probably impractical particularly if western support dries up post elections.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
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