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USSR invades Ukraine. (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,261
PVA said:
Anyway, with all this talk of Russia turning the tide they've just taken a city for the first time in what, 18 months, and lost 30,000 men and 2,000 tanks/vehicles doing it. Let's not pretend that they're about to blitzkrieg through the rest of Ukraine.
Click to expand...

No one has suggested that but the BBC are now suggesting they have more active troops on the ground than at any time since the war started
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,262
Grendel said:
You are suggesting you have some knowledge on how war works - I’m sorry but given most soldiers are on the battlefield at a younger age than you - when at a top 10 university - needed guidance from your father how to vote - it makes you look a bit silly doesn’t it?
Click to expand...

You're an absolute freak. A total creep.
 
Reactions: Alan Dugdales Moustache
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,263
PVA said:
You're an absolute freak. A total creep.
Click to expand...
Opening lyrics to WAP?
 
Reactions: djr8369 and PVA
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,264
SBT said:
Opening lyrics to WAP?
Click to expand...

Weird Ass Poster
 
Reactions: djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,265
SBT said:
Opening lyrics to WAP?
Click to expand...

How effective have those sanctions been in your considered viewpoint
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,266
Evo1883 said:
Btw , some of us stated very early on this was a war Ukraine could never win .

And they still cannot win
Click to expand...

To be fair though, if Ukraine had just rolled over at the start when Russia were heading to Kiev they’d have lost the whole country. Ukraine and the West (whatever the motives) did the right thing to try to repel them.

Putins willingness to throw endless bodies at the war and this being accepted by the Russian public was maybe underestimated though. From what I heard they have lost an estimated 350k soldiers and god knows how many have been injured. In comparison they lost 15k in 10 years in Afghanistan ! Hardly an intelligent strategy but ultimately they’ve got a larger population than Ukraine so eventually if they keep going long enough they’re likely to win
 
Reactions: Evo1883 and Otis
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,267
Grendel said:
How effective have those sanctions been in your considered viewpoint
Click to expand...
I mean, if you want my considered viewpoint I’d say it depends what you think the aims of the sanctions were. If the aim was to crash the Russian economy and/or effect regime change then they have clearly been unsuccessful. I assume you’d have been extremely opposed to those aims, which is just as well, as it doesn’t appear to have really been the end goal - instead, in terms of slowing down the Russian war effort, isolating Russia on the international stage, and damaging the long-term prospects of the Russian economy to the extent that future Russian expansionism becomes more difficult, they seem to have been relatively successful, if obviously not a knockout. Russia’s near-term GDP prospects are good, thanks to their reserves and the mobilisation of the military industry, but the makeup of their economy looks a lot less sustainable now than it did in 2021, with reserves ticking down, young educated people either leaving the country or going to the frontlines, and their biggest trade partners pivoting more quickly away from fossil fuels. The currency has devalued, infrastructure has suffered, foreign investment has become exponentially more difficult. Ordinary Russians have largely been unaffected (again, I assume you approve of this), and the immediate growth prospects are good, but the difficulties may have been enough to both slow down/interrupt the invasion of Ukraine, and make any future invasions less desirable. The cost borne by ordinary Europeans especially has been horrendous, so you can make a case that the exercise wasn’t worth it (especially if you don’t believe Putin poses a threat to any capitals west of Kyiv). But in such a febrile environment and wild fears of a potent Russian army (some military experts predicted it could take the whole country within two days), a scenario without sanctions may well have ended up with Putin having too much momentum, land and financial power to let Europe feel truly secure, so they decided that was a price worth paying.

(But you don’t really want a considered viewpoint right, you just want to do the spreadsheet thing of how I believed the economists who expected more dramatic damage to Russia’s economy, to which my response is lol the war didn’t take 48 hours, we were all wrong, so what)
 
Reactions: Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,268
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,269
I see that Zelensky has said there can be no ceasefire until Russia is out of Crimea.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,270
Sick Boy said:
I see that Zelensky has said there can be no ceasefire until Russia is out of Crimea.
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Yeah, but I think we can take that with a pinch of salt. I don't think that is ever going to happen.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,271
You've got to announce the ideal to allow space for the compromise
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, djr8369, shmmeee and 2 others

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 18, 2024
  • #8,272
Deleted member 5849 said:
You've got to announce the ideal to allow space for the compromise
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I think he’s out of his depth at this point.

It's now very much in Russia’s favour and they’re not going to give up territory that they’ve taken control of.
 
Last edited: Feb 19, 2024
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,273
Interesting article from a guy who usually commentates on the US economy and why it’s essential that other nato members, especially around Europe, need to start pulling their fingers out and quick

Whether it’s Donald Trump or Joe Biden, Nato’s in trouble

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times
www.thetimes.co.uk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,274
Otis said:
Yeah, but I think we can take that with a pinch of salt. I don't think that is ever going to happen.
Click to expand...

Russia aren’t going anywhere. The areas they are in control of our now a total wasteland - Russia will only rebuild if they own these territories - it’s clear it’s beyond hope for Ukraine now to achieve their aims (it was never possible) and now it’s time to concede and negotiate
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,275
Russian officials refuse to let Navalny's mother see her sons body.

I hope Putin dies a horrible, horrible death.
 
Reactions: Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,276
Grendel said:
Russia aren’t going anywhere. The areas they are in control of our now a total wasteland - Russia will only rebuild if they own these territories - it’s clear it’s beyond hope for Ukraine now to achieve their aims (it was never possible) and now it’s time to concede and negotiate
Click to expand...
I did think they could take back some of the Donbas, but the Crimea was always a bridge (no pun intended) too far.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,277
PVA said:
Russian officials refuse to let Navalny's mother see her sons body.

I hope Putin dies a horrible, horrible death.
Click to expand...

Emotional irrelevance
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,278
Grendel said:
Emotional irrelevance
Click to expand...

If you say so.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,279
PVA said:
Russian officials refuse to let Navalny's mother see her sons body.

I hope Putin dies a horrible, horrible death.
Click to expand...

Probably doing her a favour given the likely radioactivity of the body.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,280
SBAndy said:
Probably doing her a favour given the likely radioactivity of the body.
Click to expand...

They probably can’t get the ice pick out
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,281
PVA said:
If you say so.
Click to expand...

Eliminating your enemies is hardly a new thing is it. I remember the death of Georgi Markov. There is something curiously quaint about it in a way. So John Le Carre.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,282
Grendel said:
Eliminating your enemies is hardly a new thing is it. I remember the death of Georgi Markov. There is something curiously quaint about it in a way. So John Le Carre.
Click to expand...

It's not new so that makes it alright then.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,283
So it seems increasingly likely that Ukraine will be at least partly absorbed into Russia at some point. Hopefully the people here who don’t see that as a problem are right and that they don’t voice concerns about any American land grabs in the future.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,284
Brighton Sky Blue said:
So it seems increasingly likely that Ukraine will be at least partly absorbed into Russia at some point. Hopefully the people here who don’t see that as a problem are right and that they don’t voice concerns about any American land grabs in the future.
Click to expand...
How do you envisage Ukraine winning the war, then? Presumably you're in favour of Western troops joining the fight?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,285
Brighton Sky Blue said:
So it seems increasingly likely that Ukraine will be at least partly absorbed into Russia at some point. Hopefully the people here who don’t see that as a problem are right and that they don’t voice concerns about any American land grabs in the future.
Click to expand...

If we’re going back to pre WW2 geopolitics LFG. Move Taiwan to somewhere in Utah en masse then bring it, I reckon we win. Also fuck it lets go back in for Calais, solve the small boat problem once and for all.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,286
Sick Boy said:
How do you envisage Ukraine winning the war, then? Presumably you're in favour of Western troops joining the fight?
Click to expand...

Just stopping fucking about and providing enough weapons would be a start. And for the millionth time it’s about making Ukraine strong enough to enter a negotiation without losing their entire country. As well as, you know, decimating a belligerent world powers military using what we’ve got down the back of the sofa.

And there’s a good argument “Western” troops have been in a fight since day one.
 
Reactions: djr8369
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,287
Sick Boy said:
How do you envisage Ukraine winning the war, then? Presumably you're in favour of Western troops joining the fight?
Click to expand...
It would need a huge tilting of the scales for sure. I just think it’s a really, really shit state of affairs that we’re going to just write away another country’s right to exist in order to appease a madman.

How did it turn out in the late 30s?
 
Reactions: duffer, Sky_Blue_Dreamer and djr8369

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,288
shmmeee said:
Just stopping fucking about and providing enough weapons would be a start. And for the millionth time it’s about making Ukraine strong enough to enter a negotiation without losing their entire country. As well as, you know, decimating a belligerent world powers military using what we’ve got down the back of the sofa.

And there’s a good argument “Western” troops have been in a fight since day one.
Click to expand...
I imagine the failed counter-offensive means that there's scepticism amongst Western countries, even if it's not publicly said. Billions of dollars was put towards weapons for it and it achieved next to nothing; it was supposed to have been the turning point in the war.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,289
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It would need a huge tilting of the scales for sure. I just think it’s a really, really shit state of affairs that we’re going to just write away another country’s right to exist in order to appease a madman.

How did it turn out in the late 30s?
Click to expand...

We sided with a madman who was as bad as Hitler
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,290
Sick Boy said:
I imagine the failed counter-offensive means that there's scepticism amongst Western countries, even if it's not publicly said. Billions of dollars was put towards weapons for it and it achieved next to nothing; it was supposed to have been the turning point in the war.
Click to expand...

I mean, that’s war. If people went in expecting certainty that’s on them really. I think what’s really happened is the main backers have had elections and that’s disrupted the flow, plus it took us too long to realise this was a long term thing and start ramping up manufacturing capacity.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,291
Grendel said:
We sided with a madman who was as bad as Hitler
Click to expand...
If Joe Biden were comparable to Joe Stalin you’d have a point
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,292
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If Joe Biden were comparable to Joe Stalin you’d have a point
Click to expand...

This may be the first time I’ve seen you say something nice about Biden, knew you’d come round.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,293
shmmeee said:
This may be the first time I’ve seen you say something nice about Biden, knew you’d come round.
Click to expand...
Unless he's a big Stalin fan of course
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,294
shmmeee said:
This may be the first time I’ve seen you say something nice about Biden, knew you’d come round.
Click to expand...
Where am I?
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 19, 2024
  • #8,295
Brighton Sky Blue said:
If Joe Biden were comparable to Joe Stalin you’d have a point
Click to expand...

same age probably
 
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