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USSR invades Ukraine. (9 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 15, 2024
  • #8,121
Zelensky is a grifter that is now in way over his head.
Where this goes from here I don’t know, but 2 things are probably very likely.
Firstly, more innocent people will die, Secondly Zelensky will die a very rich man.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE, Grendel and wingy
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,122
Sick Boy said:
Interesting quote from your article:

Ukrainians overwhelmingly trust the former armed forces chief over his newly-appointed replacement as confidence in President Zelensky drops, a survey has found.

That’s despite him saying the war is a stalemate, something I got hammered for on here.
Click to expand...

Id hope that a majority of people accept it’s a stalemate. How you get from that to a settlement that works for Ukraine and without emboldening Putin is the challenge
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,123
Ian1779 said:
Zelensky is a grifter that is now in way over his head.
Where this goes from here I don’t know, but 2 things are probably very likely.
Firstly, more innocent people will die, Secondly Zelensky will die a very rich man.
Click to expand...

He was a rich man before the war, so I'm not sure what relevance that has.

A few people in here falling for Kremlin propaganda unfortunately.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,124
CCFCSteve said:
Id hope that a majority of people accept it’s a stalemate. How you get from that to a settlement that works for Ukraine and without emboldening Putin is the challenge
Click to expand...
The interests of Ukraine aren’t going to be a top priority for the west.
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,125
Sick Boy said:
The interests of Ukraine aren’t going to be a top priority for the west.
Click to expand...

It’s Ukraines call though….unless the West pulls support
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,126
PVA said:
He was a rich man before the war, so I'm not sure what relevance that has.

A few people in here falling for Kremlin propaganda unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Corruption in Ukraine is well documented. You’d have to be naive at best to think it’s not gone on during the war, both in terms of weapons coming in and financial support.

This is an interesting article - Zelensky's Cash Haul
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,127
CCFCSteve said:
It’s Ukraines call though….unless the West pulls support
Click to expand...
It’s not their call because they’re entirely dependent on what the West decides.
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,128
Sick Boy said:
It’s not their call because they’re entirely dependent on what the West decides.
Click to expand...

If they wanted to settle now they would. The west can prolong things by continuing to provide financial and military support but it can’t stop them from going to the negotiating table. Ultimately if that’s what Ukraine people and government want that’s what will happen
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,129
CCFCSteve said:
If they wanted to settle now they would. The west can prolong things by continuing to provide financial and military support but it can’t stop them from going to the negotiating table. Ultimately if that’s what Ukraine people and government want that’s what will happen
Click to expand...
Financial support from the West isn’t going to last forever; there are already questions being asked. If Trump gets voted in, it’ll probably be gone by this time next year.

Once that happens, Ukraine will be in a far weaker position to negotiate.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,130
Sick Boy said:
Corruption in Ukraine is well documented. You’d have to be naive at best to think it’s not gone on during the war, both in terms of weapons coming in and financial support.

This is an interesting article - Zelensky's Cash Haul
Click to expand...

I'm sure it is going on. But that article is as expected really, the US are doing everything they can to ensure the money is accounted for and the Republicans say it's being wasted and lost to corruption.
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,131
Sick Boy said:
Financial support from the West isn’t going to last forever; there are already questions being asked. If Trump gets voted in, it’ll probably be gone by this time next year.

Once that happens, Ukraine will be in a far weaker position to negotiate.
Click to expand...

I agree. They’ve got to decide if/when they are in best position to negotiate
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,132
PVA said:
He was a rich man before the war, so I'm not sure what relevance that has.

A few people in here falling for Kremlin propaganda unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Given you have swallowed propaganda from the US from day one that is genuinely hilarious

Oh and from this man

 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,133
Grendel said:
Given you have swallowed propaganda from the US from day one that is genuinely hilarious

Oh and from this man
Click to expand...

Oh look here's the chief chomper of Kremlin propaganda.
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,134
Finally more members are taking responsibility for their defence. not sure what the remaining 13 are thinking but surely a show of strength/investment in defence is the best form of deterrent

Nato defence spending to hit record as alliance braces for potential Trump win

Eighteen of 31 countries are set to spend 2 per cent of GDP on defence
www.ft.com
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,135
CCFCSteve said:
It’s Ukraines call though….unless the West pulls support
Click to expand...

Well it’s Zelensky who decides - anyone who shows dissent is removed
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,136
PVA said:
Oh look here's the chief chomper of Kremlin propaganda.
Click to expand...

No one has ever believed Russian propaganda-

least of all me

Spy Poisoning

My conspiracy theory: It is the eve of an election in Russia. The great protector will push the „fact“ that everyone is against Russia and they need someone like him. He will win by even more whilst at the same time showing that „traitors“ are not safe anywhere and will die a horrible death...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,137
Sick Boy said:
Corruption in Ukraine is well documented. You’d have to be naive at best to think it’s not gone on during the war, both in terms of weapons coming in and financial support.

This is an interesting article - Zelensky's Cash Haul
Click to expand...

Did you read that article? I'm just wondering because of course it's the far right in the US that are primarily spouting the "Ukraine's bent so we shouldn't support them."

Interesting that you seem to be aligned with them on this.

As before, unless you're saying that Russia are invading Ukraine in order to put in place a better, less-corrupt democracy, it is an utterly bat-shit point of view.

Either it's acceptable for an authoritarian dictator to overthrow a sovereign European democracy by force, or it isn't.

If it isn't, then the West needs to support Ukraine with whatever they need, to the best of our ability; anything else is rank hypocrisy.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and PVA

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,138
Ian1779 said:
Zelensky is a grifter that is now in way over his head.
Where this goes from here I don’t know, but 2 things are probably very likely.
Firstly, more innocent people will die, Secondly Zelensky will die a very rich man.
Click to expand...

If he's just a grifter, why did he risk his, and his families lives to stay in Kyiv when the West offered him a way out?

Easy to forget, but in the first few hours and days of the Russian invasion, it looked very likely that Kyiv would fall and Zelenskyy would be captured and/or killed.

Where's your evidence that he's doing this for his own benefit, rather than for his country? It's a hell of a thing to claim without proof.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,139
Grendel said:
Well it’s Zelensky who decides - anyone who shows dissent is removed
Click to expand...

yeah, ultimately it is currently, however, if there was a groundswell of public support to go a certain route he wouldn’t have much choice.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,140
duffer said:
If he's just a grifter, why did he risk his, and his families lives to stay in Kyiv when the West offered him a way out?

Easy to forget, but in the first few hours and days of the Russian invasion, it looked very likely that Kyiv would fall and Zelenskyy would be captured and/or killed.

Where's your evidence that he's doing this for his own benefit, rather than for his country? It's a hell of a thing to claim without proof.
Click to expand...

Quite. He's shown some pretty extraordinary levels of courage and leadership through the war. Not least, as you say, when assassination squads were sent to kill him and his family and he refused to leave.

And as always it's absurd to point out all these apparent flaws of Zelensky while not saying a single word about Putin.
 
Reactions: Grendel

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,141
duffer said:
Did you read that article? I'm just wondering because of course it's the far right in the US that are primarily spouting the "Ukraine's bent so we shouldn't support them."

Interesting that you seem to be aligned with them on this.

As before, unless you're saying that Russia are invading Ukraine in order to put in place a better, less-corrupt democracy, it is an utterly bat-shit point of view.

Either it's acceptable for an authoritarian dictator to overthrow a sovereign European democracy by force, or it isn't.

If it isn't, then the West needs to support Ukraine with whatever they need, to the best of our ability; anything else is rank hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
As I said, it's naive at best not to believe that there are huge issues with corruption there - it's hardly aligning myself with the far-right:

This is only from a few weeks ago - Ukraine says corrupt officials stole $40 million meant to buy arms for the war with Russia

Also, the West has hardly shown itself to be in a position to take the moral high ground on anything when it comes to mass murder.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,142
Sick Boy said:
As I said, it's naive at best not to believe that there are huge issues with corruption there - it's hardly aligning myself with the far-right:

This is only from a few weeks ago - Ukraine says corrupt officials stole $40 million meant to buy arms for the war with Russia

Also, the West has hardly shown itself to be in a position to take the moral high ground on anything when it comes to mass murder.
Click to expand...

indeed
 
Reactions: PVA

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,143
People love an opinion poll

Is Zelenskyy responsible for corruption in Ukraine?

According to a recent poll, the vast majority of Ukrainians hold the president responsible for corruption in the government and military administrations. Find out how the opinion of Ukrainian citizens is divided and what is known about the draft law on e-declaration
visitukraine.today
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,144
I don't think you've understood what that survey means.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,145
PVA said:
I'm sure it is going on. But that article is as expected really, the US are doing everything they can to ensure the money is accounted for and the Republicans say it's being wasted and lost to corruption.
Click to expand...
It absolutely is going on; it’s one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,146
Sick Boy said:
It absolutely is going on; it’s one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
Click to expand...

Its ok his answer is to surrender to US influence - a warmongering, political and morally bankrupt country with a foreign policy aimed purely at self interest.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,147
Grendel said:
Its ok his answer is to surrender to US influence - a warmongering, political and morally bankrupt country with a foreign policy aimed purely at self interest.
Click to expand...

Said with your usual incredible levels of self awareness.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,148
Sick Boy said:
It absolutely is going on; it’s one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this like everyone in here is denying there is corruption in Ukraine when literally no one is.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,149
PVA said:
Said with your usual incredible levels of self awareness.
Click to expand...

At least I don’t have to ask my parents who to vote for when I’m a fully grown man
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,150
Your obsession with my parents is really weird. Leave it out you utter creep.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,151
PVA said:
Your obsession with my parents is really weird. Leave it out you utter creep.
Click to expand...

It was you who said it not me - just extraordinary - “tories were the good guys as my dad told me” - weren’t you at university at 19? It’s a damning admission
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,152
No, you keep mentioning my parents. It's fucking weird. Just leave it out.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,153
PVA said:
No, you keep mentioning my parents. It's fucking weird. Just leave it out.
Click to expand...

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

I came from a council estate and went to a failing comp and was only one of a handful who went to Uni. My family all voted labour - oddly at 18 I could think for myself - unlike you it seems Credit to you for buying a house for 70p 👏🏻
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,154
duffer said:
If it isn't, then the West needs to support Ukraine with whatever they need, to the best of our ability; anything else is rank hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

The point is, to what end? What is the envisaged outcome?
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 16, 2024
  • #8,155
Grendel said:

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

I came from a council estate and went to a failing comp and was only one of a handful who went to Uni. My family all voted labour - oddly at 18 I could think for myself - unlike you it seems Credit to you for buying a house for 70p 👏🏻
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
Click to expand...

Just fuck off, there's posts from you 2 years ago talking about my 'daddy'.

It's really, really fucking weird behaviour.
 
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