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USSR invades Ukraine. (15 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,701
Today.

CNN —
Russia has lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active-duty ground troops it had prior to launching its invasion of Ukraine and two-thirds of its pre-invasion tanks, a source familiar with a declassified US intelligence assessment provided to Congress told CNN.

Still, despite heavy losses of men and equipment, Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to push forward as the war approaches its two-year anniversary early next year and US officials are warning that Ukraine remains deeply vulnerable. A highly anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensive stagnated through the fall, and US officials believe that Kyiv is unlikely to make any major gains over the coming months.

The assessment, sent to Capitol Hill on Monday, comes as some Republicans have balked at the US providing additional funding for Ukraine and the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to try to get supplemental funding through Congress.


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Washington on Tuesday, meeting with US lawmakers and President Joe Biden in desperate bid to secure the military and economic aid he says is vital to Ukraine’s ability to maintain the fight against Russia.

Russia has been able to keep its war effort going despite the heavy losses by relaxing recruitment standards and dipping into Soviet-era stockpiles of older equipment. Still, the assessment found that the war has “sharply set back 15 years of Russian effort to modernize its ground force.”

Of the 360,000 troops that entered Ukraine, including contract and conscript personnel, Russia has lost 315,000 on the battlefield, according to the assessment. 2,200 of 3,500 tanks have been lost, according to the assessment. 4,400 of 13,600 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers have also been destroyed, a 32 percent loss rate.


“As of late November, Russia lost over a quarter of its pre-invasion stockpiles of ground forces equipment,” the assessment reads. “This has reduced the complexity and scale of Russian offensive operations, which have failed to make major gains in Ukraine since early 2022.”

CNN has reached out to the Russian Embassy in Washington for comment.

But it is the political environment in Washington that presents perhaps the greatest peril for Ukraine. Some Republicans are stiffly rejecting any additional funding and Senate Republicans are insisting on making it part of a broader spending package to include money for Israel, Taiwan and the US southern border. The Biden administration is warning that the US will soon be out of money for Ukraine.

“The idea that Ukraine was going to throw Russia back to the 1991 borders was preposterous,” Sen. J.D. Vance, a Republican from Ohio, said on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday. “So what we’re saying to the president and really to the entire world is, you need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?”

Other newly declassified intelligence previously reported by CNN suggests that “Russia seems to believe that a military deadlock through the winter will drain Western support for Ukraine and ultimately give Russia the advantage despite Russian losses and persistent shortages of trained personnel, munitions, and equipment,” according to a National Security Council spokesman.

“Since launching its offensive in October, we assess that the Russian military has suffered more than 13,000 casualties along the Avdiivka-Novopavlivka axis and over 220 combat vehicle losses-the equivalent of 6 maneuver battalions in equipment alone,” NSC spokesperson Adrienne Watson told CNN.

Before the invasion, Russia had a total standing military of approximately 900,000 active-duty troops, including ground troops, airborne troops, special operations and other uniformed personnel, according to the CIA. Since the start of the invasion, Russia has announced plans to increase the size of the armed forces to 1.5 million. The Russian Ministry of Defense has announced several rounds of conscription, including its regular fall conscription cycle on October 1.

Russia has also leaned heavily on convicts marshaled to the fight by the Wagner Group and has increased the age limit for certain categories of citizens to remain in the reserve of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,702
Absolutely obscene numbers.

So many unnecessary deaths because of one megolamaniac war criminal.
 
Reactions: Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,703
skybluetony176 said:
Their new T 14 tank is a standing joke also. Putin apparently believed they had the best designed tank in the world. The reality is it can’t even do a parade without having a tow truck on standby. Allegedly he’s only just learned it hasn’t even been built to the spec in terms of armament and weaponry that he was initially lead to believe it was. Although it still has a toilet for the crew. Although it’s no longer flushing.
Click to expand...
Buckets are back in fashion?
 
T

TewkesburySkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,704
The solution is to kill the bastard Putin don't know why we didn't take him out years ago.
Scumbag another Hitler.
He has to die very very soon
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman
F

Fysnkysc

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,705
TewkesburySkyBlue said:
The solution is to kill the bastard Putin don't know why we didn't take him out years ago.
Scumbag another Hitler.
He has to die very very soon
Click to expand...
One nutter out one nutter in, its a Russian thing.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,706
You have to wonder to what extent corruption within Ukraine has hampered the country in its efforts as well. There is little chance of the huge amounts of corruption being eradicated any time soon.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,707
Sick Boy said:
You have to wonder to what extent corruption within Russia has hampered the country in its efforts as well. There is little chance of the huge amounts of corruption being eradicated any time soon.
Click to expand...
Yes it is interesting to think about.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,708
skybluetony176 said:
Their new T 14 tank is a standing joke also. Putin apparently believed they had the best designed tank in the world. The reality is it can’t even do a parade without having a tow truck on standby. Allegedly he’s only just learned it hasn’t even been built to the spec in terms of armament and weaponry that he was initially lead to believe it was. Although it still has a toilet for the crew. Although it’s no longer flushing.
Click to expand...
If that’s the case then surely the counteroffensive is even more of a humiliation considering Putin is a simpleton and Ukraine has had huge support from the west.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,709
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes it is interesting to think about.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I meant Ukraine but it can probably be applied to both.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,710
Sick Boy said:
If that’s the case then surely the counteroffensive is even more of a humiliation considering Putin is a simpleton and Ukraine has had huge support from the west.
Click to expand...
It’s disappointing, I wouldn’t say it’s humiliating. The one thing Russia did get “right” was distracting Ukraine over last winter with Wagner cannon fodder while digging in and making Ukraine the most mined country in the world ahead of the spring offensive. Although that in itself is a capitulation from Russia. The best outcome they see is retaining the land they had not already lost following the invasion and initial Ukrainian counter offensive. I would credit the Russian military with this though not Putin. He probably thinks they’re about to take Kyiv or whatever it is at this moment in time he wants to hear from his echo chamber of yes men he’s surrounded himself with. You can cut it up however you like but regardless of how bad you think it’s gone for Ukraine it’s gone significantly worse for Russia. Remember, this was supposed to be a three day offensive for Russia with rose petals thrown at the tracks of tanks to waving USSR flags welcoming them as liberators.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,711
skybluetony176 said:
It’s disappointing, I wouldn’t say it’s humiliating. The one thing Russia did get “right” was distracting Ukraine over last winter with Wagner cannon fodder while digging in and making Ukraine the most mined country in the world ahead of the spring offensive. Although that in itself is a capitulation from Russia. The best outcome they see is retaining the land they had not already lost following the invasion and initial Ukrainian counter offensive. I would credit the Russian military with this though not Putin. He probably thinks they’re about to take Kyiv or whatever it is at this moment in time he wants to hear from his echo chamber of yes men he’s surrounded himself with. You can cut it up however you like but regardless of how bad you think it’s gone for Ukraine it’s gone significantly worse for Russia. Remember, this was supposed to be a three day offensive for Russia with rose petals thrown at the tracks of tanks to waving USSR flags welcoming them as liberators.
Click to expand...
Thousands of young men have died for nothing, it’s been a disaster for both sides.
 
Reactions: bezzer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,712
Sick Boy said:
Thousands of young men have died for nothing, it’s been a disaster for both sides.
Click to expand...
Nothing if you’re fighting for Russia. I think you’re grasping at straws though if you think Ukrainians have nothing to fight for.
 
Reactions: duffer
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,713
Sick Boy said:
You have to wonder to what extent corruption within Ukraine has hampered the country in its efforts as well. There is little chance of the huge amounts of corruption being eradicated any time soon.
Click to expand...

It was a huge problem, hence what happened in 2014. Since then the military has undergone huge reforms, and been trained and massively improved by working alongside the US.

Which is why they are now far better trained and lead than Russia and able to withstand such massive differential in troop numbers and equipment.
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,714
If it's ok for Russia to invade and occupy a democratic European country because some elements within it are blatantly corrupt, then we're fucked.

It's probably the weakest argument I've heard to try to justify appeasement of Putin.
 
Reactions: RedSalmon and Fysnkysc

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,715
duffer said:
If it's ok for Russia to invade and occupy a democratic European country because some elements within it are blatantly corrupt, then we're fucked.

It's probably the weakest argument I've heard to try to justify appeasement of Putin.
Click to expand...
One of the biggest strawman posts on the forum.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,716
PVA said:
It was a huge problem, hence what happened in 2014. Since then the military has undergone huge reforms, and been trained and massively improved by working alongside the US.

Which is why they are now far better trained and lead than Russia and able to withstand such massive differential in troop numbers and equipment.
Click to expand...

Leaked U.S. strategy on Ukraine sees corruption as the real threat

A report obtained by POLITICO details specific plans to reform Ukrainian institutions and warns Western support may hinge on cutting corruption.
www.politico.com
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,717
Ukraine has for decades been one of the biggest sources for black market firearms in the world.......

.......and business seems to be thriving these days.
 
Reactions: Grendel

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,718
Sick Boy said:
You have to wonder to what extent corruption within Ukraine has hampered the country in its efforts as well. There is little chance of the huge amounts of corruption being eradicated any time soon.
Click to expand...
The bulk of corruption is at low levels - pretty much similar to what i encountered in my early years in Hungary. It's a cash to a policeman not to give you a speeding ticket or to a doctor to get preferential treatment or a local govt official to get paperwork processed quickly or get your kids into a better school etc. It isn't some massive organised network of corruption rather a legacy of Communist times where individuals are out for what they can get. Ukraine has tried to pass legislation addressing the most blatant examples but their Supreme Court blocked it.
Hungary may have passed legislation to largely stop the "petty" levels of corruption the large scale stuff still continues at the upper end of business and politics - i'd argue this is still pretty much the same in the likes of SLovakia, Romania and other former Eastern-bloc EU members too.
 
Reactions: Fysnkysc

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,719
tisza said:
The bulk of corruption is at low levels - pretty much similar to what i encountered in my early years in Hungary. It's a cash to a policeman not to give you a speeding ticket or to a doctor to get preferential treatment or a local govt official to get paperwork processed quickly or get your kids into a better school etc. It isn't some massive organised network of corruption rather a legacy of Communist times where individuals are out for what they can get. Ukraine has tried to pass legislation addressing the most blatant examples but their Supreme Court blocked it.
Hungary may have passed legislation to largely stop the "petty" levels of corruption the large scale stuff still continues at the upper end of business and politics - i'd argue this is still pretty much the same in the likes of SLovakia, Romania and other former Eastern-bloc EU members too.
Click to expand...
Where there’s that level of corruption in everyday society, it’s inevitable that it exists much higher up and on a larger scale.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,720
Republicans are such bellends. Imagine what their fathers and grandfathers would think of them siding with Russia while claiming to be patriots. It's fucking insane.


 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,721
PVA said:
Republicans are such bellends. Imagine what their fathers and grandfathers would think of them siding with Russia while claiming to be patriots. It's fucking insane.


Click to expand...
not going to happen, most republican sedators actually support aiding ukraine, they are just currently using it as a political football to try and get something they want
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,722
From his perspective Putin has played a blinder since the start of 2010, yet is dismissed as a simpleton on here. Said it before but we’re in the early stages of the balance of global power shifting away from the west.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,723
David O'Day said:
not going to happen, most republican sedators actually support aiding ukraine, they are just currently using it as a political football to try and get something they want
Click to expand...

Ah so that's why he's known as sleepy Joe
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,724
Sick Boy said:
From his perspective Putin has played a blinder since the start of 2010, yet is dismissed as a simpleton on here. Said it before but we’re in the early stages of the balance of global power shifting away from the west.
Click to expand...

He's played a blinder with all his disinformation campaigns, I'll give you that.

But clearly this war has been a strategic disaster.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,725
PVA said:
He's played a blinder with all his disinformation campaigns, I'll give you that.

But clearly this war has been a strategic disaster.
Click to expand...
And yet there will likely be zero repercussions for him. Without meaning to, the USA’s backing of the bombing of Gaza has also played into his hands and he can use it to highlight western hypocrisy amongst non-western leaders to undermine the west further.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,726
Sick Boy said:
And yet there will likely be zero repercussions for him. Without meaning to, the USA’s backing of the bombing of Gaza has also played into his hands and he can use it to highlight western hypocrisy amongst non-western leaders to undermine the west further.
Click to expand...

For him personally? No probably not, unless he (hopefully) falls out of a window one day.

But Russia has clearly faced massive repercussions that will be felt for decades, long after Putin is gone.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,727
PVA said:
For him personally? No probably not, unless he (hopefully) falls out of a window one day.

But Russia has clearly faced massive repercussions that will be felt for decades, long after Putin is gone.
Click to expand...

What repercussions?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,728
PVA said:
For him personally? No probably not, unless he (hopefully) falls out of a window one day.

But Russia has clearly faced massive repercussions that will be felt for decades, long after Putin is gone.
Click to expand...
Countries like China, India, Middle Eastern and a range of South American countries are happy to engage with Russia. As I said, western countries trying to play the moral police are going to be easier to undermine now.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,729
Grendel said:
What repercussions?
Click to expand...

Sanctions
~50% of it's military destroyed
Strengthening of NATO
Increased defence spending in Europe
Lost it's largest market for fossil fuels
Pushed the West towards more renewable energy solutions
Severely dwindling population
Mass exodus of skilled workers
Economy is reliant on large defence spending
Become China's bitch


There's probably more that I've missed and that others can add.

But strategically this invasion has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,730
PVA said:
Sanctions
~50% of it's military destroyed
Strengthening of NATO
Increased defence spending in Europe
Lost it's largest market for fossil fuels
Pushed the West towards more renewable energy solutions
Severely dwindling population
Mass exodus of skilled workers
Economy is reliant on large defence spending
Become China's bitch


There's probably more that I've missed and that others can add.

But strategically this invasion has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia.
Click to expand...

My concern is after all of the above he’s kinda stuck now ie he can’t walk away from the war. Best thing is for him to pass away as a replacement would have some wriggle room to do a deal that might be acceptable/justifiable to both ukraine and Russian people

I know what sick boy was saying about a power shift from the west and would’ve agreed pre war. Since then though Russia has been severely damaged by the war and chinas economy has unravelled a fair bit. India is the one to watch but is no friend of China
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,731
Sick Boy said:
Countries like China, India, Middle Eastern and a range of South American countries are happy to engage with Russia. As I said, western countries trying to play the moral police are going to be easier to undermine now.
Click to expand...
It's exactly this.
Western countries believing their way is best and trying to impose their belief systems on others regardless of their cultural, religious beliefs etc.
China, Russia etc don't care what your LGBTQ etc rules are if there' s money or influence on offer.
There's around 10 "democracies" out of 50 odd African countries - who are these non-democracies likely to turn to the West with their ideological impositions or the likes of China or Russia who don't care?
Middle East the same - few democracies but they have money so the West can't dictate to them.
But then Western companies flocked to China for the markets, cheap labour, lower employment/environmental standards etc. Haven't seen many Western Govts condemn their own companies for investing in China. Biden's just quietly agreed to drop sanctions against one of the main Chinese agencies persecuting the Uighurs in exchange for limiting the Chinese exports of chemicals used for making Fentanyl.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk and Sick Boy

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,732
PVA said:
Sanctions
~50% of it's military destroyed
Strengthening of NATO
Increased defence spending in Europe
Lost it's largest market for fossil fuels
Pushed the West towards more renewable energy solutions
Severely dwindling population
Mass exodus of skilled workers
Economy is reliant on large defence spending
Become China's bitch


There's probably more that I've missed and that others can add.

But strategically this invasion has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia.
Click to expand...
According to soon to be falling from a window Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, onetime richest man in Russia and friend of Putin and Abramovich, Russia will be running out of money next year without foreign investment. Apparently Putin is already shaking down his oligarchs that he enriched with Russia’s assets for money and unless China bails Russia out Russia is fucked. Given China has it’s own financial issues that seems unlikely.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,733
skybluetony176 said:
According to soon to be falling from a window Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, onetime richest man in Russia and friend of Putin and Abramovich, Russia will be running out of money next year without foreign investment. Apparently Putin is already shaking down his oligarchs that he enriched with Russia’s assets for money and unless China bails Russia out Russia is fucked. Given China has it’s own financial issues that seems unlikely.
Click to expand...
Yeah because there’s zero money in the Gulf states.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,734
China now pays it's oil bill direct.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 13, 2023
  • #7,735
Sick Boy said:
Yeah because there’s zero money in the Gulf states.
Click to expand...
Which Gulf states do you expect to bail Russia out with investment?
 
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