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USSR invades Ukraine. (17 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,666
You two are proper weird. “Oh I hope some Ukrainians get raped and kidnapped, wouldn’t that be great!”

Fucking wronguns.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,667
shmmeee said:
You two are proper weird. “Oh I hope some Ukrainians get raped and kidnapped, wouldn’t that be great!”

Fucking wronguns.
Click to expand...

An agreement would have stopped this carnage from the very beginning
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,668
Grendel said:
An agreement would have stopped this carnage from the very beginning
Click to expand...

LOL. LMAO even.

What agreement form the beginning? Hand the country over like you suggested?

You do realise what Russia has planned for Ukrainian citizens don’t you? You do know what’s happening to Ukrainian kids and women in occupied territories don’t you? It’s a genocide attempt you contrarian moron. No going quietly wouldn’t have prevented any violence.
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and eastwoodsdustman

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,669
shmmeee said:
You two are proper weird. “Oh I hope some Ukrainians get raped and kidnapped, wouldn’t that be great!”

Fucking wronguns.
Click to expand...
What’s your alternative? Ongoing conflict for years to come with trillions of £/$/€ put into it with 100s of 1000s more deaths?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,670
shmmeee said:
LOL. LMAO even.

What agreement form the beginning? Hand the country over like you suggested?

You do realise what Russia has planned for Ukrainian citizens don’t you? You do know what’s happening to Ukrainian kids and women in occupied territories don’t you? It’s a genocide attempt you contrarian moron. No going quietly wouldn’t have prevented any violence.
Click to expand...

Sorry you are talking nonsense
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,671
Sick Boy said:
What’s your alternative? Ongoing conflict for years to come with trillions of £/$/€ put into it with 100s of 1000s more deaths?
Click to expand...

People should ask themselves what will peace actually look like - not in the chocolate box mentality adopted with the happy clappies on here - but in the actual reality of a war that will carry on for a decade without some diplomacy
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,672
Hang on. I thought the US/West wanted this war to go on forever? That’s their policy, to keep the war going for the arms industry to benefit indefinitely.

Now they’ve decided actually the best bet is for it to be ended with peace talks?

Make your minds up lads.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,673
Err. There was an agreement in the first place. It was called the Budapest Memorandum. How can people be so stupid to believe an agreement would mean anything to Putin, if they did he wouldn’t have annexed Crimea or invaded any other part of Ukraine.
 
Reactions: PVA

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,674
Grendel said:
People should ask themselves what will peace actually look like - not in the chocolate box mentality adopted with the happy clappies on here - but in the actual reality of a war that will carry on for a decade without some diplomacy
Click to expand...
There are 3 clear scenarios that will or can play out.
1, Full defeat of some sort for Russia which brings about Regime change.
2, Ukranian victory/Russian withdrawal which will result in ongoing battles/skirmishes over the next 5 years or so
3, Russian victory which will remove any Ukranian nationalism and anyone either apathetic or anti Russian. Theis will then be followed by something similar in numerous other ex soviet states over the coming years.

An agreement or uneasy truce wont be a truce at all. It will just be giving Russia more time to get ready to try again and this time they will make sure their first attack on Kiev succeeds which is where it really went wrong the first time.
 
Reactions: PVA

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,675
PVA said:
Hang on. I thought the US/West wanted this war to go on forever? That’s their policy, to keep the war going for the arms industry to benefit indefinitely.

Now they’ve decided actually the best bet is for it to be ended with peace talks?

Make your minds up lads.
Click to expand...

They do - it’s the only way to - shock horror - stop it. Also of course there now is the small matter of a little spat in somewhere called Israel which has far more global implications - even you can’t dispute that
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 8, 2023
  • #7,676
Grendel said:
They do - it’s the only way to - shock horror - stop it. Also of course there now is the small matter of a little spat in somewhere called Israel which has far more global implications - even you can’t dispute that
Click to expand...

They do want it to go on forever or they want to stop it?
 
D

DrPoolittle

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 9, 2023
  • #7,677
Grendel said:
An agreement would have stopped this carnage from the very beginning
Click to expand...

yeah but Russia didn’t want an agreement. They wanted to crush Ukraine and commit genocide
 
D

DrPoolittle

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 9, 2023
  • #7,678
Grendel said:
Sorry you are talking nonsense
Click to expand...
Nope. Russia is committing genocide.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,679
Wake up Britain and the West.

At what point does this stop. This arse needs to be dealt with.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and eastwoodsdustman

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,680
Flying Fokker said:
Wake up Britain and the West.

At what point does this stop. This arse needs to be dealt with.
Click to expand...
Yeah because it’s a good idea to take everything said on Russia TV at face value.
 

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,681
Sick Boy said:
Yeah because it’s a good idea to take everything said on Russia TV at face value.
Click to expand...
A bit like the military exercises before the invasion.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,682
eastwoodsdustman said:
A bit like the military exercises before the invasion.
Click to expand...
If you take what is said on Russia TV as gospel, do you also believe the war is going massively in their favour then?

Putin isn’t an idiot and wouldn’t attack a NATO country, despite what gets claimed.
 
Last edited: Dec 12, 2023
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman and RegTheDonk

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,683
Sick Boy said:
If you take what is said on Russia TV as gospel, do you also believe the war is going massively in favour then?

Putin isn’t an idiot and wouldn’t attack a NATO country, despite what gets claimed.
Click to expand...
I understand that Russian tv is just a propaganda machine but I dont think for one minute that if Kyiv had fallen in the first few days that they wouldnt have moved on again bouyed by the success
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,684
Sick Boy said:
If you take what is said on Russia TV as gospel, do you also believe the war is going massively in their favour then?

Putin isn’t an idiot and wouldn’t attack a NATO country, despite what gets claimed.
Click to expand...
Phew. That'll be a massive relief to the people of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. I am sure they'll all stop worrying now that you've reassured them. Oh course they also know that Trump will come to their aid as he showed great support for Nato in his first term.
 
Reactions: Flying Fokker and eastwoodsdustman

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,685
DrPoolittle said:
Nope. Russia is committing genocide.
Click to expand...

The last UN report of the war said this isn’t the case I believe
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,686
Deleted member 9744 said:
Phew. That'll be a massive relief to the people of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. I am sure they'll all stop worrying now that you've reassured them. Oh course they also know that Trump will come to their aid as he showed great support for Nato in his first term.
Click to expand...

NATO decisions are made by consensus
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,687
Deleted member 9744 said:
Phew. That'll be a massive relief to the people of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. I am sure they'll all stop worrying now that you've reassured them. Oh course they also know that Trump will come to their aid as he showed great support for Nato in his first term.
Click to expand...
What evidence do you have that an attack on a NATO country has been planned?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,688
Sick Boy said:
What evidence do you have that an attack on a NATO country has been planned?
Click to expand...

Answer: None
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,689
Grendel said:
The last UN report of the war said this isn’t the case I believe
Click to expand...

Oh that's alright then. Let them crack on I guess.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,690
Sick Boy said:
What evidence do you have that an attack on a NATO country has been planned?
Click to expand...
None at all. But likewise what do you have that there is no possibility of an attack in these countries un due course?
 
Reactions: Grendel

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,691
Sick Boy said:
If you take what is said on Russia TV as gospel, do you also believe the war is going massively in their favour then?

Putin isn’t an idiot and wouldn’t attack a NATO country, despite what gets claimed.
Click to expand...
Not sure that you can claim Putin isn’t an idiot when he clearly believed Russia was going to be waved in by adoring Ukrainians throwing rose petals at the tracks of tanks all the way to Kyiv as liberators not invaders. He ain’t exactly smart is he. In fact the only thing probably stopping him from being stupid enough to invade a NATO country is the response from NATO countries to his invasion of Ukraine including Russias neighbours clambering over themselves to join NATO. He’s single handedly responsible for the expansion of NATO, the exact thing he was supposed to be stopping with his invasion. Again, not very smart.
 
Reactions: Flying Fokker and Grendel
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,692
Grendel said:
People should ask themselves what will peace actually look like - not in the chocolate box mentality adopted with the happy clappies on here - but in the actual reality of a war that will carry on for a decade without some diplomacy
Click to expand...
What compromise will Russia be willing to accept? To only take half of Ukraine now and the rest in instalments?
 
Reactions: Flying Fokker
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,693
skybluetony176 said:
Not sure that you can claim Putin isn’t an idiot when he clearly believed Russia was going to be waved in by adoring Ukrainians throwing rose petals at the tracks of tanks all the way to Kyiv as liberators not invaders.
Click to expand...

I think his main issue here is surrounding himself with yes men and with total corruption - and all his dissenters over the years falling out of windows. Anyone that he asked advice from was telling him his military was wonderful and Ukraine would be crushed/surrender in 3 days.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,694
PVA said:
I think his main issue here is surrounding himself with yes men and with total corruption - and all his dissenters over the years falling out of windows. Anyone that he asked advice from was telling him his military was wonderful and Ukraine would be crushed/surrender in 3 days.
Click to expand...

Putin surrounding himself with yes men. What an astonishing insight into Russian politics.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,695
Grendel said:
Putin surrounding himself with yes men. What an astonishing insight into Russian politics.
Click to expand...

I never said it was an astonishing insight but it's clearly a pretty significant factor in why his 3 day war is at 600+ days and counting.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,696
PVA said:
I think his main issue here is surrounding himself with yes men and with total corruption - and all his dissenters over the years falling out of windows. Anyone that he asked advice from was telling him his military was wonderful and Ukraine would be crushed/surrender in 3 days.
Click to expand...
I was watching something not that long ago where he’d been paying prominent people in Ukraine money for influence amongst the people. So long as they kept saying it was working he kept sending the money. It seems he really thought he’d won the hearts and minds of Ukrainians despite their being any tangible evidence to back it up. It’s the emperors new clothes syndrome. Which is exactly why you can’t say he isn’t an idiot.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,697
PVA said:
I think his main issue here is surrounding himself with yes men and with total corruption - and all his dissenters over the years falling out of windows. Anyone that he asked advice from was telling him his military was wonderful and Ukraine would be crushed/surrender in 3 days.
Click to expand...
I was watching something not that long ago where he’d been paying prominent people in Ukraine money for influence amongst the people. So long as they kept saying it was working he kept sending the money. It seems he really thought he’d won the hearts and minds of Ukrainians despite their not being any tangible evidence to back it up. It’s the emperors new clothes syndrome. Which is exactly why you can’t say he isn’t an idiot
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,698
skybluetony176 said:
I was watching something not that long ago where he’d been paying prominent people in Ukraine money for influence amongst the people. So long as they kept saying it was working he kept sending the money. It seems he really thought he’d won the hearts and minds of Ukrainians despite their not being any tangible evidence to back it up. It’s the emperors new clothes syndrome. Which is exactly why you can’t say he isn’t an idiot
Click to expand...

Same with the tank maintenance and everything. Always the issue with dictatorships, you optimise for leader happiness not effectiveness.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,699
shmmeee said:
Same with the tank maintenance and everything. Always the issue with dictatorships, you optimise for leader happiness not effectiveness.
Click to expand...
Their new T 14 tank is a standing joke also. Putin apparently believed they had the best designed tank in the world. The reality is it can’t even do a parade without having a tow truck on standby. Allegedly he’s only just learned it hasn’t even been built to the spec in terms of armament and weaponry that he was initially lead to believe it was. Although it still has a toilet for the crew. Although it’s no longer flushing.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Dec 12, 2023
  • #7,700
shmmeee said:
Same with the tank maintenance and everything. Always the issue with dictatorships, you optimise for leader happiness not effectiveness.
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure if we read the same thing, but I saw something on that a while ago (or maybe I heard it on a podcast, I can't remember)

Russian grunt gets asked if his tank is in good working order, tells his boss yes as he doesn't want to be punished. He then tells his boss all the tanks are working fine, and so on.

It's like this the whole way through the Russian military, right to the top.

Half of them probably genuinely believe what they're being told and the other half know it's rubbish but don't want to tell their superior that things are shit.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
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