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USSR invades Ukraine. (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,581
Saddlebrains said:
So they flapped it then?
Click to expand...

Think of it as Arsenal's title challenge last season
 
Reactions: duffer and Saddlebrains

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,582
Belarus for one of the nutters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-66006142
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,583
Rough day for the foreign policy experts who insist that NATO was responsible for the war in Ukraine when even the head of Wagner is coming out and saying it was all bollocks
"On 24 February [2022] there was nothing extraordinary happening there. Now the Ministry of Defence is trying to deceive the public, deceive the president and tell a story that there was some crazy aggression by Ukraine, that - together with the whole Nato bloc - Ukraine was planning to attack us.”
Click to expand...
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,584
All over within 24 hours, feels like this was all a sham to me.

Wouldn't be surprised if this was a scam to see if anybody else would support him.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,585
David O'Day said:
we'll see what the deal actually is
Click to expand...
So Wagner troops will sign MOD contracts - whether that is just those in Ukraine or all Wagner personnel unclear. Wagner operatives in large numbers in several African states - as an unofficial arm of Russian foreign policy. What has Prig been offered? Can't just be some flimsy personal security guarantee if he leaves the country.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 24, 2023
  • #6,586
tisza said:
So Wagner troops will sign MOD contracts - whether that is just those in Ukraine or all Wagner personnel unclear. Wagner operatives in large numbers in several African states - as an unofficial arm of Russian foreign policy. What has Prig been offered? Can't just be some flimsy personal security guarantee if he leaves the country.
Click to expand...

100’s of millions. Putin can afford it
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,587
CCFCSteve said:
100’s of millions. Putin can afford it
Click to expand...

And he'll probably be dead within weeks/months anyway.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,588
PVA said:
And he'll probably be dead within weeks/months anyway.
Click to expand...
Yup, especially when he goes to his first greasy spoon cafe and he gets polonium 210, egg and chips.
 
Reactions: AOM, Terry Gibson's perm and eastwoodsdustman

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,589
PVA said:
And he'll probably be dead within weeks/months anyway.
Click to expand...
Or has he been offered Belarus? Lukashenko reportedly seriously ill. Putin basically controls Belarus.
That's a theory among the talking heads here this morning.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,590
PVA said:
And he'll probably be dead within weeks/months anyway.
Click to expand...
Unlikely, even if the wagner forces are officially going to be state forces they still are very loyal to him so if he dies then they'll rise up again
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,591
putin has lost whatever hardman image he had by running away
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,592
tisza said:
Or has he been offered Belarus? Lukashenko reportedly seriously ill. Putin basically controls Belarus.
That's a theory among the talking heads here this morning.
Click to expand...

I did read that too, but I can't see it.

Lukashenko is bad enough, no way the people of Belarus would stand for this nutter being parachuted in as president surely.

Also giving the bloke you tried to overthrow you control of a load of your nukes doesn't seem like a great idea!

I think he will end up 'falling' out of a window or having a bad car 'accident'.

But who knows!
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,593
David O'Day said:
Unlikely, even if the wagner forces are officially going to be state forces they still are very loyal to him so if he dies then they'll rise up again
Click to expand...

But are they now?

After he promised them a coup, got them on the doorstep of Moscow and then bottled it, resulting in them become part of the army, as you say, on much lower wages.

I don't think there's much loyalty anywhere in Russia.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,594
PVA said:
But are they now?

After he promised them a coup, got them on the doorstep of Moscow and then bottled it, resulting in them become part of the army, as you say, on much lower wages.

I don't think there's much loyalty anywhere in Russia.
Click to expand...
he didn't promise them a coup
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,595
also do you know what their contracts will be? really?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,596
David O'Day said:
also do you know what their contracts will be? really?
Click to expand...

Wagner are mercenaries, they get paid more than regular Russian army soldiers.
 
Last edited: Jun 25, 2023

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,597
PVA said:
Wagner are mercenaries, they get paid more than regular Russian army soldiers.
Click to expand...
already a source of discontent with "pre-war" Russian troops as new recruits getting better money/signing bonuses/death insurance than they are. Be interesting to see how many Wagner sign up andcan be integrated into a formal military system
 
Reactions: PVA

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,598
PVA said:
I did read that too, but I can't see it.

Lukashenko is bad enough, no way the people of Belarus would stand for this nutter being parachuted in as president surely.

Also giving the bloke you tried to overthrow you control of a load of your nukes doesn't seem like a great idea!

I think he will end up 'falling' out of a window or having a bad car 'accident'.

But who knows!
Click to expand...
The regime is propped up by Russia. Internal dissent doesn't go well - 20/21 protests. Least democratic country in Europe. Whoever the next leader is it will be a Russian choice.
Nuclear control will awlays remain under the Russians - they are not going to give any 3rd party access to them.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,599
tisza said:
The regime is propped up by Russia. Internal dissent doesn't go well - 20/21 protests. Least democratic country in Europe. Whoever the next leader is it will be a Russian choice.
Click to expand...

Yeah I get that, just don't see it being Prigozhin at all.

It'll be very interesting to see what happens though that's for sure.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,600
PVA said:
Yeah I get that, just don't see it being Prigozhin at all.

It'll be very interesting to see what happens though that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Not saying it will be but the speculation is that it was the "carrot" used to get him to stop and leave.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,601
tisza said:
Not saying it will be but the speculation is that it was the "carrot" used to get him to stop and leave.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see

Possibly yes. Of course nobody can trust a word Putin says so I'm sure Prigozhin will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,602
PVA said:
Ah, I see

Possibly yes. Of course nobody can trust a word Putin says so I'm sure Prigozhin will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder.
Click to expand...
Never be able to touch a door handle for the rest of his life
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm, duffer and PVA

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,603
PVA said:
Wagner are mercenaries, they get paid more than regular Russian army soldiers.
Click to expand...
have you seen the agreed deal? no I take it
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,604
David O'Day said:
have you seen the agreed deal? no I take it
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you haven't either.

For your average soldier on the ground the Russian army is worse than Wagner in almost every aspect - leadership, equipment and pay. And with much worse survival odds.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,605

I'm Putin's 'no.1 enemy' - here is why I know Wagner rebellion isn't over

WAGNER Group boss Yevgeny Prigozhin’s violent uprising is “just the beginning” and it is not going to end well for Vladimir Putin, warned Putin’s “number one enemyR…
www.thesun.co.uk
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,606
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849, duffer, AOM and 1 other person

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,607
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 25, 2023
  • #6,608
David O'Day said:
Click to expand...



 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2023
  • #6,609
FT is reporting that... "Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin still faces charges, says Russian state media."

Also that Putin has signed a decree that lets the Russian military recruit prisoners, presumably learning from Wagner on that one.

Hmm. What professional soldier wouldn't want to fight alongside someone who is only there to escape their sentence? Obviously no risk of them legging it or hiding when the going gets tough, or nicking your kit, brawling, or a dozen other things that lower morale and combat effectiveness...

Either way, I think the Prigozhin/Wagner thing might yet come back to life if they arrest him. Interesting times.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2023
  • #6,610
I'd post the FT link, but it's gone behind the paid subscriber wall. It's what they said though, honest!
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 26, 2023
  • #6,611
Some twerp in USSR…

 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2023
  • #6,612
David O'Day said:
Unlikely, even if the wagner forces are officially going to be state forces they still are very loyal to him so if he dies then they'll rise up again
Click to expand...

PVA said:
But are they now?

After he promised them a coup, got them on the doorstep of Moscow and then bottled it, resulting in them become part of the army, as you say, on much lower wages.

I don't think there's much loyalty anywhere in Russia.
Click to expand...


Told you Wagner troops would not be happy with Prighozin!

And Shoigu is remaining in place so didn't get what he wanted anyway.


Wagner mutiny: Prigozhin's soldiers rage while others cry conspiracy

Wagner troops fume at their leader's decision to halt his march on Moscow in furious online posts.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Last edited: Jun 27, 2023

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2023
  • #6,613
PVA said:
Told you Wagner troops would not be happy with Prighozin!

And Shoigu is remaining in place so didn't get what he wanted anyway.


Wagner mutiny: Prigozhin's soldiers rage while others cry conspiracy

Wagner troops fume at their leader's decision to halt his march on Moscow in furious online posts.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Putin finally admits the state funded Wagner - having denied it previously. So when he talks about other countries military help in Ukraine the obvious question remains about the Wagner involvement in 8-10 countries in Africa,Latin America and Asia - propping up various undemocratic regimes.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 9744 and PVA

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2023
  • #6,614
PVA said:
Told you Wagner troops would not be happy with Prighozin!

And Shoigu is remaining in place so didn't get what he wanted anyway.


Wagner mutiny: Prigozhin's soldiers rage while others cry conspiracy

Wagner troops fume at their leader's decision to halt his march on Moscow in furious online posts.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
And a few posts on a social media platform are equal to the views of a much larger group of people.

By that weird logic you could read Grenners and Boosh's posts and say that they are representative of all online Cov fans.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 27, 2023
  • #6,615
David O'Day said:
And a few posts on a social media platform are equal to the views of a much larger group of people.

By that weird logic you could read Grenners and Boosh's posts and say that they are representative of all online Cov fans.
Click to expand...
or even worse, could read yours.
 
Reactions: Evo1883
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