USSR invades Ukraine. (16 Viewers)

Grendel · Feb 18, 2023

PVA said:
I was the first one on here to say the invasion was going disastrously for Russia and you asked where I was getting that from as no one else was saying it. So that's not what I do is it?

And you absolutely love giving your new buddy FP a like so what point are you even trying to make here.

I don't know why you find it so hard to believe that Ukrainians would rather fight for their country than sit down for peace with the people murdering their families and compatriots.

It’s not going disastrously for Ukraine then? What is victory to you?

My point is they may be less keen if they weren’t encouraged by the west - who couldn’t give a flying fuck about Ukraine and it’s citizens - and they knew the outcome would be oblivion

It’s like people on the sidelines pushing the bantamweight to fight a heavyweight and when he’s struggling throwing him a few energy bars and better gloves but never stopping the massacre

When this is eventually at an end I can see Sleepy Joe turning to to Kyiv with no buildings left and no people - everyone dead

But he’ll point out that we won so I guess that’s all we should care about

tisza · Feb 18, 2023

PVA said:
He knows exactly how Russians think but we can't take a judgement on how Ukrainians think despite numerous surveys telling us because Zelensky controls the Wall Street Journal.

I think that's the gist of it.

Who knows what Russian people really think when expressing an opinion can result in arrest and prison? And new laws have been introduced since the invasion to double down on any form of dissension.

PVA · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
It’s not going disastrously for Ukraine then? What is victory to you?

My point is they may be less keen if they weren’t encouraged by the west - who couldn’t give a flying fuck about Ukraine and it’s citizens - and they knew the outcome would be oblivion

It’s like people on the sidelines pushing the bantamweight to fight a heavyweight and when he’s struggling throwing him a few energy bars and better gloves but never stopping the massacre

When this is eventually at an end I can see Sleepy Joe turning to to Kyiv with no buildings left and no people - everyone dead

But he’ll point out that we won so I guess that’s all we should care about

You said Russia were going to take Kyiv inside a week. They planned to have the whole country inside 3 weeks.

It's going far more disastrously for Russia so far.

You are utterly, utterly, fucking clueless on this.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2023

Sick Boy said:
Of course they would do but at some point there will come a time when they will have to negotiate if they want peace and anything to be left of the country afterwards.

Don’t be silly. Zelensky won’t negotiate and the Russians can’t be trusted. Putin will need to surrender and sit in the Kremlin with a big dunces hat on and the world laughing at him.

What a likely scenario that is

Grendel · Feb 18, 2023

PVA said:
You said Russia were going to take Kyiv inside a week. They planned to have the whole country inside 3 weeks.

It's going far more disastrously for Russia so far.

You are utterly, utterly, fucking clueless on this.

Again it’s a game of forum wars to you and not real life.

PVA · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
Again it’s a game of forum wars to you and not real life.

You said Russia would take Kyiv in a week so by your own expectations and opinion the war by definition must be going disastrously for Russia.

Grendel · Feb 18, 2023

PVA said:
You said Russia would take Kyiv in a week so by your own expectations and opinion the war by definition must be going disastrously for Russia.

War is a disaster for all countries involved - oddly people die - why you seem to think this is not the case and that it has to solved by negotiation and settlement and that Putin will accept defeat is totally bewildering - not just to me either.

Russians don’t accept defeat and never will

PVA · Feb 18, 2023

Some Russians are incredibly stupid

PVA · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
Russians don’t accept defeat and never will

And for some reason you seem to think that doesn't apply to Ukrainians despite all the evidence of the last 12 months

SBT · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
Russians don’t accept defeat and never will

Grendel · Feb 18, 2023

SBT said:
View attachment 28437

I see your journalistic flair showing through.

Daily star by any chance? Did you ever meet Dawn Neesom?

SBT · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
I see your journalistic flair showing through.

Daily star by any chance? Did you ever meet Dawn Neesom?

What is the average age of someone who’s likely to have heard of this person?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
Don’t be silly. Zelensky won’t negotiate and the Russians can’t be trusted. Putin will need to surrender and sit in the Kremlin with a big dunces hat on and the world laughing at him.

What a likely scenario that is

So in your mind Zelensky is at fault because he won't negotiate with someone who can't be trusted. So the talks would be meaningless.

In a later post you also put Russians won't accept defeat and never will. So they're not going to negotiate either. Why are they not to blame for the failure for talks?

Or if they'd never invaded they'd be no need for talks at all.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Feb 18, 2023

Grendel said:
War is a disaster for all countries involved - oddly people die - why you seem to think this is not the case and that it has to solved by negotiation and settlement and that Putin will accept defeat is totally bewildering - not just to me either.

Russians don’t accept defeat and never will

So you'd think you'd be flat out against the side that started the war by invading the other country.

If all wars are bad cos people die and therefore talks and negotiate need to be entered into, all nations should invade all other nations because they will immediately reach a settlement to end the war and you get at least part of what you want. Then just start the war again to get anew settlement with even more. Continue ad infinitum until you get everything you want.

I assume if someone burgled your house, in order to stop the situation you'd give the burglars the keys?

tisza · Feb 18, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So in your mind Zelensky is at fault because he won't negotiate with someone who can't be trusted. So the talks would be meaningless.

In a later post you also put Russians won't accept defeat and never will. So they're not going to negotiate either. Why are they not to blame for the failure for talks?

Or if they'd never invaded they'd be no need for talks at all.

Accepted defeat in Afghanistan.
Also Russians say Ukrainians are brothers and fellow Russians. Shouldn't then Ukrainians also be unwilling to accept defeat and fight to defend their country? Holes in someone's logic

Flying Fokker · Feb 18, 2023

PVA · Feb 20, 2023

Biden is in Kyiv today.

Also news of China considering sending weapons to Russia is worrying.

Sick Boy · Feb 20, 2023

PVA said:
Biden is in Kyiv today.

Also news of China considering sending weapons to Russia is worrying.

So they’re not distancing themselves from Russia now then?

tisza · Feb 20, 2023

PVA said:
Biden is in Kyiv today.

Also news of China considering sending weapons to Russia is worrying.

Maybe sabre rattling over these balloon incidents. Also claim they have a new peace plan that they have put to various western govts already. So adding arms whilst pushing a peace plan would seem to undermine said peace plan.

tisza · Feb 20, 2023

Sick Boy said:
So they’re not distancing themselves from Russia now then?

Just poking the Americans. Buden's impromptu visit to Kiev seems to be a response to Wang Yi's visit to Moscow.

Grendel · Feb 20, 2023

tisza said:
Just poking the Americans. Buden's impromptu visit to Kiev seems to be a response to Wang Yi's visit to Moscow.

It’s the Americans through Blinken that have started the rumour mill - it’s an inevitability at some point China have been supporting Russia through oil purchases to alleviate the impacts of western sanctions

shmmeee · Feb 20, 2023

Sick Boy said:
Of course they would do but at some point there will come a time when they will have to negotiate if they want peace and anything to be left of the country afterwards.

Sure. But they can’t do that from a position of weakness. Putin has to believe negotiating peace is the only thing that’ll keep him in power rather than the opposite.

tisza · Feb 20, 2023

Grendel said:
It’s the Americans through Blinken that have started the rumour mill - it’s an inevitability at some point China have been supporting Russia through oil purchases to alleviate the impacts of western sanctions

American "intelligence" has been pretty accurate since before the war started. There's no secrets about which countries are buying oil directly and few secrets about those still buying through the likes of Turkey. But there's a clear separation between trade and providing military assistance.

Grendel · Feb 20, 2023

tisza said:
American "intelligence" has been pretty accurate since before the war started. There's no secrets about which countries are buying oil directly and few secrets about those still buying through the likes of Turkey. But there's a clear separation between trade and providing military assistance.

Its blinken whose saying military support is likely to be forthcoming

tisza · Feb 20, 2023

Grendel said:
Its blinken whose saying military support is likely to be forthcoming

It was blinken in Dec 2021 and Jan 2022 who said Russia was about to invade Ukraine despite Russian denials.
Reasonable to assume America has intelligence assets at reasonably high levels in both Russia and China.(as they do in America).
The caveat obviously is what types of military support. Could be as simple as trucks and people carriers that Russia is desperately short of and China manufactures.

PVA · Feb 20, 2023

tisza said:
It was blinken in Dec 2021 and Jan 2022 who said Russia was about to invade Ukraine despite Russian denials.
Reasonable to assume America has intelligence assets at reasonably high levels in both Russia and China.(as they do in America).
The caveat obviously is what types of military support. Could be as simple as trucks and people carriers that Russia is desperately short of and China manufactures.

Sounds like it would be weapons:

"To date, we have seen Chinese companies provide non-lethal support to Russia for use in Ukraine. The concern that we have now is based on information we have that they're considering providing lethal support," he said.

Grendel · Feb 20, 2023

tisza said:
It was blinken in Dec 2021 and Jan 2022 who said Russia was about to invade Ukraine despite Russian denials.
Reasonable to assume America has intelligence assets at reasonably high levels in both Russia and China.(as they do in America).
The caveat obviously is what types of military support. Could be as simple as trucks and people carriers that Russia is desperately short of and China manufactures.

Ukraine war: Blinken says China might give weapons to Russia

The US said China was considering "lethal support" for Russia in Ukraine - a claim denied by Beijing.

www.bbc.co.uk

tisza · Feb 20, 2023

Grendel said:
Ukraine war: Blinken says China might give weapons to Russia

The US said China was considering "lethal support" for Russia in Ukraine - a claim denied by Beijing.

www.bbc.co.uk

Again it just has the feel of sabre rattling and posturing.
China is publically pushing a peaceful solution based on territorial integrity but would it follow that up by arming the Russians?
On from this maybe China believes the suggestion of backing Russia might force participants to look more closely at whatever peace proposal they are putting forward
Plus a lot of recent Chinese focus has been on building relationships with EU (and by default the NATO members within it). Does it put that at risk?
If China further allies itself with Russia then it could have a knock-on effect of pushing other Asian neighbours towards the protection of an American umbrella (much like the Philippines recently).

Flying Fokker · Feb 21, 2023

Two things.

They think Biden will go for another term.
Zelensky is ‘The messy haired Clown’.

PVA · Feb 21, 2023

Big Putin speech at 9am (GMT) apparently.

Wonder what he'll say.

Another mobilisation?
Something in response to Biden's visit?
Or just to say that his 3 day war is going perfectly to plan?

PVA · Feb 21, 2023

Also looks like the big Russian offensive around Vulhedar, where they lost thousands of men to take a few hundred yards has stalled. In fact they may even have lost some ground.

duffer · Feb 21, 2023

PVA said:
Big Putin speech at 9am (GMT) apparently.

Wonder what he'll say.

Another mobilisation?
Something in response to Biden's visit?
Or just to say that his 3 day war is going perfectly to plan?

I wouldn't expect too many surprises, just more threats and bluster. Maybe further conscriptions to "defend the motherland".

At home he's obviously pitching it as a war against NATO, in reality of course he knows that his only real hope is to try to keep the west divided and indecisive.

PVA · Feb 21, 2023

He's utterly deranged.

Some 'highlights' so far:

Ukraine started the war
Ukrainians are hostages to the Kyiv regime and Western masters
Ukraine is trying to acquire nuclear weapons
Ukraine army is full of Nazis
Russia are doing this to protect their children
And because they want peace in their homeland
Something about gender neutrality
The West has stolen Russia's gold reserves

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 21, 2023

PVA said:
He's utterly deranged.

Some 'highlights' so far:

Ukraine started the war
Ukrainians are hostages to the Kyiv regime and Western masters
Ukraine is trying to acquire nuclear weapons
Ukraine army is full of Nazis
Russia are doing this to protect their children
And because they want peace in their homeland
Something about gender neutrality
The West has stolen Russia's gold reserves

Ah yes, the Nazi line.

‘Mr Lavrov, can you explain how a country full of Nazis has a Jewish president?’

‘I can’t’

PVA · Feb 21, 2023

The Church of England gets a mention too.

Lovely stuff.

USSR invades Ukraine. (16 Viewers)

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