Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well we are coming over Chamberlain like by using Ukraine like Czechoslovakia. Putin is emboldened by the world's inaction as he pillages a country he openly thinks shouldn't exist
Exactly, they’re enjoying the benefits of being the world’s factory too much to get involved.
Putin is playing a game of chicken hoping the west blink first. Now is not the time to come over all Neville Chamberlain like. It’s unfortunate for Ukraine but Putin can’t come out of this with anything resembling a tangible victory. Even if that means the current hardships get worse and last longer.
They are simply pawns in a diplomatic row now. They'll be exchanged for several hundred Russian soldiers or have their sentence reprieved at the eleventh hour heralding Putin as a humane leader.Maybe a massive escalation of war, they’re pow and Ukrainian citizens not Mercenaries so I can see the uk doing something to prevent these deaths.
Well Russia certainly aren't winning it.
That has been a (very successful) strategy of Ukraine throughout the war. Pull back and then counter attack.
I am confident in saying I think Ukraine will win this war (though at huge cost of course).
Well we are coming over Chamberlain like by using Ukraine like Czechoslovakia. Putin is emboldened by the world's inaction as he pillages a country he openly thinks shouldn't exist
We is the western world not Uk in your example with chamberlain
Putin by your own admission believes Ukraine is Russian territory and you’ve also said he has a clapped out army. Well a clapped out army ain’t invading the west
it’s a spat with a country we are by definition committing an illegal act if we defend.
Any talk of global war is fucking stupid. Russia's only powerful half friend is China and they are not going to get involved in a war in the Ukraine.
That area of occupation is far bigger than what Russia set out to "take back" . Once the Donbas has gone, and most already has, there is going to be either a continued march east and north, or a withdrawal from those areas into Donbas and a consolidation.Definitely turning the screw, and in a war of attrition you want to have the advantage in numbers as the Russians do.
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Your views on this have been shall we say a bit off the money in the past.
What does a win look like?
Hardly sanctions haven’t worked, the west don’t military involvement
There isn’t one western leader that’s remotely suggesting what you are is there?
The idea of ‘let him crack on with it’ and then criticising Zelensky for conscription with his country invaded from 3 directions just seemed a bit odd
What western country agrees with you - name one.
How is that relevant? Nobody here is a military adviser.
Though if you must-which country said we should ‘let Putin crack on’?
well you have just said a few posts ago nato should take action - as no advisor would say that and would think it’s bat shit crazy why say it - it’s relevant as you are advocating isn’t it - sending nato troops into a conflict it has zero jurisdiction in? You said it?
And let’s be honest the west really are letting him “crack on” aren’t they. I would guess US intelligence would like a long struggle but weaken the Russian army and take significant enough territory and then get a deal
I think if anything from his gaffes Biden privately wants much more aggression
Lol any evidence? Anyway one leader who supports action - one
Well his ‘accidents’ calling for Putin’s removal which is further than anyone else has gone.
I don’t get your point-I’m not expecting what I say to become reality. Just that letting Ukraine fall is a huge strategic gamble-it sets a precedent of Putin using the nuclear threat to invade wherever he likes.
And a nato supported invasion isn’t a gamble? The point as you’ve said is Russia has little capability militarily so letting it exhaust itself by taking a couple of years to bring down Ukraine is strategically pretty sensible isn’t it?
Attacking his family I thinkWhat is the line he needs to cross, in your opinion?
And when it is taken is the aim to re-conquer the territory or accept a huge increase in Russian controlled territory on NATO's doorstep?
Attacking his family I think
Answer the question then? When would it be too much?Seriously Pete grow up
Answer the question then? When would it be too much?
So Latvia then?If Putin enters western soil clearly then. Frankly though by then he’s armies depleted and exhausted so really it’s not happening
I answered it. Ukraine on its own isn’t abs never will be worth shedding a single uk life for.
A settlement needs to be agreed at some point and the west needs to be honest. It will not ever support Ukraine but it should look to broker a deal to surrender land to Russia and force a peace of sorts through diplomacy
So Latvia then?
So Moldova then? I still think you’d say not our problemAgain it’s a ridiculous diversion. at least say Moldova if you want to
He’s not invading Latvia it’s really a silly statement
If China invaded Mongolia tomorrow there would be a lot of frowning but we would do nothing and no one would be wearing the Mongolian flag
So Moldova then? I still think you’d say not our problem
NoBut he’s not abs I’ve said to you it’s a problem if he invaded a nato country and he won’t. He can’t and he won’t.
By implication you are suggesting war with Russia which is bat shit crazy and would escalate - look at 1914 for that
Are you suggesting military conflict with Russia?
I'm proposing we negotiate , or atleast attempt to negotiate a peace deal as a collective group of powerful nations.
I believe I've said this all along actually .
Strong mediation and UN focused management of inhuman actsSo what are you suggesting?
Strong mediation and UN focused management of inhuman acts
I am not sure I understand this point. I totally get we cannot just go in, as the risks are too high, but the threat to global food supplies comes from Russian's continued action in Ukraine. Much of the world really relies on food from Ukraine, and Russian actions are preventing it getting to them.Not sure global food shortages and poverty are a price worth paying for a country like Ukraine ? so ultimately at some point decisions will have to be made
Real talk
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