Universities? (1 Viewer)

bringbackrattles · May 30, 2019

Lot of talk currently on University and courses. Report claims many courses are overpriced and many are worthless etc.
Plus students leave owing thousands of pounds and will never pay their debts back. 20 years ago I did a part time course at Cov University, I wanted an outdoor job at Coombe Abbey or a similar place but was told I needed a degree. I got on a 4 year course, and hated it totally boring and it was nothing like I thought it would be. I packed it in after one year, and have nothing positive to say on University. Apprentice courses should be the answer.
Any thoughts on this ?

Marty · May 30, 2019

Apprenticeships are the way to go, most people I know who have done one are far out earning, better prospects and usually happier with life then those with Uni degrees.

SBAndy · May 30, 2019

Went to uni, had a great time partying, failed the first year twice and now wish I’d never bothered racking up the c.£15k student debt.

I think the key for me is that the age which you tend to leave for university is the same age as you can start drinking. You move to another place where you don’t know anyone - it’s a recipe for disaster. Granted it works for some but I’ve two friends who have gone back to university after working til the age of 22-23 and both have done really well out of it whilst also acting in a more responsible manner.

In a nutshell, I’m irresponsible.

Si80 · May 30, 2019

I never finished uni. Had £10k debt that took me 15 years to clear once I’d gotten to a position where I was making a dent in the outstanding.

My wife will never clear her student debt as doesn’t earn enough. In 11 years time that gets wiped to zero for her. Madness.

A lad that’s not long joined my team at work has £50k debt after doing a masters in Marine Biology. His interest on his owed far outweighs what’s taken from his salary every month.

It’s no wonder this country is in the shit when we create such an unsustainable university funding model.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · May 30, 2019

if you want to enrole on a three year combined degree in A history of Sicilian farming and British Pre-raphaelites artists of the 19th Century then you know that you are going to struggle in the job market . There are lots of silly degrees about.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 30, 2019

Went to uni, didn't bother with the partying and took it 'reasonably' seriously. Not really been much help and would've been further along a career path doing professional exams and I'd have earnt more.

Trouble is that degrees have become devalued, but the big irony is that when they were really worth something and were mainly the preserve of the rich and privately education it was free (and they could sign on etc). Now it's become more open it costs a fortune and is less likely to help career wise.

If a 16-18 y o old were to ask me, I would suggest looking at apprenticeship or work based training first unless the degree was absolutely essential to what they wanted to do.

Marty · May 30, 2019

What are psychology degrees like? I can't imagine them being worth much apart from the self interest in the subject themselves? Any clarification would be great.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · May 30, 2019

Marty said:
What are psychology degrees like? I can't imagine them being worth much apart from the self interest in the subject themselves? Any clarification would be great.

Touchy feely I bet. Or is that Sociology ?

fernandopartridge · May 30, 2019

Marty said:
Apprenticeships are the way to go, most people I know who have done one are far out earning, better prospects and usually happier with life then those with Uni degrees.

You need a mix of everything to make an economy work. Apprenticeships make sense in some sectors and not in others. That said, with the advent of level 6 and 7 i.e degree level apprenticeships perhaps the spread will be wider.

Sick Boy · May 30, 2019

I left school at 16 with 2 GCSEs and worked for a couple of years, I was more interested in drinking and fighting from the ages of 12-16.

I ended up doing evening classes for GCSEs and then eventually got 4 As at A-Level and went to the University of Sussex when I was 21 and had a great time, both socially and academically.

I don’t regret going at all and deciding to go was one of the best decisions I ever made.

bringbackrattles · May 30, 2019

I wanted to get a job as a park ranger at Coombe Abbey, passed the interview and told them about my prison past etc. They wanted to employ me but had to have a degree for working outdoors. I ended up as a window cleaner so work outdoors without a degree !

lifeskyblue · May 30, 2019

Marty said:
What are psychology degrees like? I can't imagine them being worth much apart from the self interest in the subject themselves? Any clarification would be great.

My niece did a psychology degree (and has recently completed doctorate). Worked for while in trauma units in hospitals giving support/advice to patients and their significant others). Now (for last year +) involved in supporting individuals who were involved in a major national event...this work will be ongoing for a long time I’m sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lifeskyblue · May 30, 2019

bringbackrattles said:
Lot of talk currently on University and courses. Report claims many courses are overpriced and many are worthless etc.
Plus students leave owing thousands of pounds and will never pay their debts back. 20 years ago I did a part time course at Cov University, I wanted an outdoor job at Coombe Abbey or a similar place but was told I needed a degree. I got on a 4 year course, and hated it totally boring and it was nothing like I thought it would be. I packed it in after one year, and have nothing positive to say on University. Apprentice courses should be the answer.
Any thoughts on this ?

I strongly believe in continuing education but agree degrees are a) not for everyone and b) should not be devalued by including ‘mickey mouse’ courses. Degrees, FE, apprenticeships, professional courses all have their place and in my opinion should all be properly funded by all of us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paul Anthony · May 30, 2019

SBAndy said:
Went to uni, had a great time partying, failed the first year twice and now wish I’d never bothered racking up the c.£15k student debt.

I think the key for me is that the age which you tend to leave for university is the same age as you can start drinking. You move to another place where you don’t know anyone - it’s a recipe for disaster.

Pretty much my experience.

Second half of my first year my only lecture on a Wednesday finished at half twelve. My mates had 6 hours until their next lecture. We spent them 6 hours in the bar drinking, playing pool, great time.

Then they all got suspended for plagiarism or left before year 2. Over the summer between years, my ex girlfriend passed away. I was on my own, living for myself for the first time, and depressed. So I did what I learned to do in year one. Drink. I thought nothing of downing an 8 pack of lager in one night, a bottle of wine the next, then come home for the weekend and drink another four or five pints of Guinness and a double Southern Comfort on a Friday. I didn't have any other friends at uni, and I was away from home. I went totally out of control.

By the time the third year was about to start, and they drop a ten thousand word dissertation on you, I realised I was nowhere near ready to take that on. I just wasn't in any kind of place mentally to deal with it. I was drinking myself silly, so I decided I had to leave.

This was 2008/09.I only finished paying off my grant overpayment a year or so ago. Frankly, I wish I hadn't bothered.

Covkid1968# · May 30, 2019

I love Universities.... never had a degree but have worked at them for last 12 years. So love students

But other half never had a degree and now Vice President for Major worldwide Plc so getting on in life is nothing to do with degrees!!!!

fernandopartridge · May 30, 2019

lifeskyblue said:
I strongly believe in continuing education but agree degrees are a) not for everyone and b) should not be devalued by including ‘mickey mouse’ courses. Degrees, FE, apprenticeships, professional courses all have their place and in my opinion should all be properly funded by all of us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Couldn't agree more

Covstu · May 30, 2019

I did 3 years at uni and most of it was partying, I passed my finance module and only attended one session (it was on a Tuesday after buy 1 get 3 free!). Then went back for another 3 years to do my CIPD in the evenings, had to take it seriously and wasn’t as fun!

Work in construction and we struggle to get anyone to do apprenticeships whether it’s trade or professional. We pay a decent wage and they attend university on day release so after 4 years they have a degree and 4 years experience in a decent paid job. Win win but again really struggle to get anyone with decent work ethic

Houchens Head · May 30, 2019

I got a teaching degree at the age of 40. Never bothered using it though. I just did to prove something to myself. That was 26 years ago. I've done a bit of 1:1 private tuition as a sideline but that's about it.

Houchens Head · May 30, 2019

I'm so proud, my daughter has got a position at Cambridge University.
.
.
I'm sure she'll do us proud and be the best cleaner they have ever had.

LastGarrison · May 30, 2019

I also work in HE and I am one of the very few in my role in the country who does not have a degree. In fact it’s mandatory to have a degree for a job three grades lower than mine where I work.

I will say though that not having a degree has, and will, hold me back. For instance I was shortlisting for a role a few years ago and we shortlist based on a competency based system. Having a degree instantly got someone 10 points and not having one got zero points so you can end up with less skilled and suitable people going through to the assessment day just because someone else has a degree in a completely unrelated subject which is madness!

I also know that if I was to apply for my exact same job at somewhere like Kings College or Birmingham I would also not get a look in due to the fact that I don’t have a degree!

It is quite telling that Ernst Young have only just dropped the degree requirement for some of their top jobs but the vast majority of ‘big name’ companies still require one.

Saying all of this regardless of which degree a student gets what it does show to employers is that they can retain information, they can write reports, they can time manage etc. and that is without the superficial knowledge of the degree subject itself.

Also, many universities in the UK now teach very practically and it is all about readying graduates to be able go straight into graduate employment when they graduate and not just teaching theory.

Blair has a large part to blame for this with his ‘university for all’ policy when university shouldn’t be for all and actually degree apprenticeships, vocational programmes and professional courses should all have a wider part to play.

And don’t even get me started on universities offering unconditional offers based on predicted grades which is completely undermining and devaluing the UK HE system.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · May 31, 2019

Covstu said:
Work in construction and we struggle to get anyone to do apprenticeships whether it’s trade or professional. We pay a decent wage and they attend university on day release so after 4 years they have a degree and 4 years experience in a decent paid job. Win win but again really struggle to get anyone with decent work ethic

Spot on. The problems start in schools for kids as young as 7. Primary schools are obsessed with literacy/ numeracy at the expense of creativity. We have a real problem in this country persuading kids that they can earn a good wage as a gas engineer, electrician, plasterer etc. Schools are concerned more with league tables than the careers of kids.

bringbackrattles · May 31, 2019

Best university? University Of Life. My dad was a builder who started out as a labourer on sites, but wanted to be a bricklayer, so back in the 50's and 60's instead of going to college he learned on the job. Within a year he was a brickie.
I left school at 15 with no qualifications, but was always good at writing. I went back in later life on courses and although unpaid, I write for 2 football magazines.
In other words it's not the end of the world if you haven't got a degree, there are still options open and available.

Nick · May 31, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Spot on. The problems start in schools for kids as young as 7. Primary schools are obsessed with literacy/ numeracy at the expense of creativity. We have a real problem in this country persuading kids that they can earn a good wage as a gas engineer, electrician, plasterer etc. Schools are concerned more with league tables than the careers of kids.

Yep, as bad as it is. The people I know who are the same age as me who did University are all now worse off than people who left school at 16 and learnt a trade.

It is different if you go and become a doctor for example where you are going to use the degree to then work as a doctor. When it's a pointless course they are never actually going to get a job in what's the point in that?

Houchens Head · May 31, 2019

University students these days are usually thick as pig shit. They might know a fair bit about the one subject they are studying for a degree, but ask them straight forward, general knowledge questions and they are stumped! They don't have a clue! Just watch any TV quiz show which has a number of students as contestants. They're a joke!

xcraigx · May 31, 2019

I went to Uni and it was a complete waste of 3 years. The course taught a little about a lot so I came out with no real area of expertise and a shed load of debt. I've had a few jobs since and none of them relied on my qualification. Add in the 2 years of college beforehand and that's 5 years wasted. Plenty of people who were seen as failures at school had used those years working and earning and ended up in a much better position.

Badger · May 31, 2019

Degree courses for useful things - engineering / medical /etc should be free or at a vastly reduced rate. All the fancy ones should be full price.

There should be more diversity in secondary schools - there should be schools or more value on courses for children who are good at non academic subject so that they can learn to become plumbers/builders although basic english/maths would still have to be compulsory. You usually enjoy what you are good at which would keep more children interested.

Covstu · May 31, 2019

Badger said:
Degree courses for useful things - engineering / medical /etc should be free or at a vastly reduced rate. All the fancy ones should be full price.

There should be more diversity in secondary schools - there should be schools or more value on courses for children who are good at non academic subject so that they can learn to become plumbers/builders although basic english/maths would still have to be compulsory. You usually enjoy what you are good at which would keep more children interested.

I think there is certainly a lack of 'practicality' skills at school for real basics such as how does a mortgage work, understanding tax and codes, pensions etc etc. The types of things that no one tells you but everyone needs when they start work!

Nick · May 31, 2019

Covstu said:
I think there is certainly a lack of 'practicality' skills at school for real basics such as how does a mortgage work, understanding tax and codes, pensions etc etc. The types of things that no one tells you but everyone needs when they start work!

Same as everyday life skills really.

It's no wonder the kids are getting to 18 and getting financed off their tits to get a nice brand new A class merc to show off.

bringbackrattles · May 31, 2019

Houchens Head said:
University students these days are usually thick as pig shit. They might know a fair bit about the one subject they are studying for a degree, but ask them straight forward, general knowledge questions and they are stumped! They don't have a clue! Just watch any TV quiz show which has a number of students as contestants. They're a joke!

When I did that year at Coventry Uni most of the students were more concerned with nights out, in fact some tutors gave out flyers for upcoming events, which was usually a piss up. I was trying to better myself and concentrate on studying etc, as I'd spent years drinking. But most of the students had left home for the first time so were going a bit wild. And you're right Houch many had no common sense, and used the spell check often to write fairly easy words. And a few were spoilt youths who had rich parents paying for everything. I hated the place !

Mr Panda · May 31, 2019

Covstu said:
I think there is certainly a lack of 'practicality' skills at school for real basics such as how does a mortgage work, understanding tax and codes, pensions etc etc. The types of things that no one tells you but everyone needs when they start work!

Thing is with most teachers at school is that they:

1. Go to school themselves
2. Complete their GCSE's and A levels
3. Go into higher education for 4 years to do graduate and complete their PGCE
4. Go straight back into school as an NQT

The result of this - They have no idea how a mortgage works etc and have no practical skills

Nick · May 31, 2019

Mr Panda said:
Thing is with most teachers at school is that they:

1. Go to school themselves
2. Complete their GCSE's and A levels
3. Go into higher education for 4 years to do graduate and complete their PGCE
4. Go straight back into school as an NQT

The result of this - They have no idea how a mortgage works etc and have no practical skills

It's mad when you go to parents evening now and the people teaching your kids are about 10 years younger than you.

I know it means I'm getting old but I can't really remember many teachers I had that were younger than my parents when I was at school.

Liquid Gold · May 31, 2019

Uni was the best three years of my life and after a few years work I did an MA to get into the work that I'm doing which is incredibly competitive.

There isn't a single path for everybody, there should be routes that suit different people meaning everybody can get the maximum from their skill set.

BBR's example of someone avoiding it as they wanted to be a bricklayer is a good example of someone following the correct route for them but we can't have a society of bricklayers. If people have the capability to be scientists/engineers/doctors they should be able to easily follow that path without worrying about the debt burden for decades.

Mcbean · May 31, 2019

Nick said:
It's mad when you go to parents evening now and the people teaching your kids are about 10 years younger than you.

I know it means I'm getting old but I can't really remember many teachers I had that were younger than my parents when I was at school.

We had some babes at secondary school and were all over the floor with our pencils

SBAndy · May 31, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
Uni was the best three years of my life and after a few years work I did an MA to get into the work that I'm doing which is incredibly competitive.

There isn't a single path for everybody, there should be routes that suit different people meaning everybody can get the maximum from their skill set.

BBR's example of someone avoiding it as they wanted to be a bricklayer is a good example of someone following the correct route for them but we can't have a society of bricklayers. If people have the capability to be scientists/engineers/doctors they should be able to easily follow that path without worrying about the debt burden for decades.

Part of the problem though is that schools/colleges are funnelling everyone down the route of university, and that in part brings about the devaluation. At college we used to have allocated time to write our university personal statements. One guy said he wasn’t going to uni so wasn’t bothering, and was told that he had to do one.

For all the ills of the Tory government, their increased funding for apprenticeships has been good (awaiting to hear it was actually Labour, but my memory seems to suggest Tory).

Covstu · May 31, 2019

Mr Panda said:
Thing is with most teachers at school is that they:

1. Go to school themselves
2. Complete their GCSE's and A levels
3. Go into higher education for 4 years to do graduate and complete their PGCE
4. Go straight back into school as an NQT

The result of this - They have no idea how a mortgage works etc and have no practical skills

Then bring someone who does!

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