U23's... should we stop it? (3 Viewers)

Pusb1 · Aug 24, 2023

Is there a point in it now we are in a higher league?

Unless we pick up a one in a million talent. Will they ever get a game?

Would Maddison and Wilson have got an opportunity in our squad as things stand? Or were they only afforded starts due to the squad crisis at the time they were breaking through? I recall Cyrus Christie only getting his debut because we'd sold every single player that summer.

All these came through in lower divisions when we were selling players left right and centre.

It seems we pad out the squad with players on the wage bill to try and field a team at that level,

i.e.

Costello
Cashman
Lusala
Rus

And none of them realistically will probably even play league football in their careers.

Would that money be better invested elsewhere?

Robinshio · Aug 24, 2023

eccles , howley, andrews MR willing to give a chance, and at this level one every 3 years covers the cost

Saddlebrains · Aug 24, 2023

Said this a while back

its not produced us anything of note for a while. If someone has talent you know this at u18 Stage, Maddison, Bayliss, Shipley etc

Thatys when you sign them on a pro contract and loan them out until they progress more for the first team or turn out shit

The U23s for me are pointless now and the wage and money invested in them would get us other things

Deity · Aug 24, 2023

Brentford have a B side instead ….

….. is it just egos that have killed reserve sides in modern football ?

Pusb1 · Aug 24, 2023

And the reality is, if we do have a generational talent coming through young, Elite premiership sides are all over youth recruitment, and will have them signed up before they are ever on pro terms with us anyway. They can afford to take several low-risk gambles at youth level

SlowerThanPlatt · Aug 24, 2023

Pusb1 said:
Is there a point in it now we are in a higher league?

Unless we pick up a one in a million talent. Will they ever get a game?

Would Maddison and Wilson have got an opportunity in our squad as things stand? Or were they only afforded starts due to the squad crisis at the time they were breaking through? I recall Cyrus Christie only getting his debut because we'd sold every single player that summer.

All these came through in lower divisions when we were selling players left right and centre.

It seems we pad out the squad with players on the wage bill to try and field a team at that level,

i.e.

Costello
Cashman
Lusala
Rus

And none of them realistically will probably even play league football in their careers.

Would that money be better invested elsewhere?

If you’re seriously suggesting the best talent this club has produced for 30+ years (maybe ever) wouldn’t get a chance then you may as well!

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 24, 2023

It does seem that any genuine academy talents bypass the 23s and jump up to the first team (or more likely get poached whilst still a kid).

Not sure what the answer is though.

ceetee · Aug 24, 2023

One of the problems is that there is no U23 league now, it's U21,so the older Academy/.Development lads who haven't made the step up are sort of in limbo unless they can go out on loan. Because we don't have an old fashioned reserve team, playing competitively, they, and the fringe squad players don't get much proper game time.

People talk about the Brentford model but they closed their Academy although I think they have revived it since establishing themselves in the PL

MalcSB · Aug 24, 2023

Deity said:
Brentford have a B side instead ….

….. is it just egos that have killed reserve sides in modern football ?

My guess would be allowing nearly a teams worth of squad to be on the bench.

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 24, 2023

A proper B team league would be good.

Balli001 · Aug 24, 2023

Im sure i read once that we receive a certain amount of money for having a certain level academy side

SlowerThanPlatt · Aug 24, 2023

Suppose you can further this by saying someone like Gyokeres wouldn’t be signed now after his loan spell (or loaned here at all) with £3m and £7m strikers

chiefdave · Aug 24, 2023

Balli001 said:
Im sure i read once that we receive a certain amount of money for having a certain level academy side

We do but we also have to put a certain amount in to get that funding

skybluecam · Aug 24, 2023

I never understood the Cashman signing, he was already 20 and we obviously didn’t rate him high enough to be in the first team (with the immediate loan).

What was the point?

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 24, 2023

skybluecam said:
I never understood the Cashman signing, he was already 20 and we obviously didn’t rate him high enough to be in the first team (with the immediate loan).

What was the point?

Had you watched a lot of Brighton reserve/u21 games?

skybluecam · Aug 24, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
Had you watched a lot of Brighton reserve/u21 games?

…no?

Julie SBA · Aug 24, 2023

Robinshio said:
eccles , howley, andrews MR willing to give a chance, and at this level one every 3 years covers the cost

I'm not sure you can include Andrews in there. He was a bench filler with a few others and got a few seconds when 3-0 up. Once recruitment is done he'll be back to the 23s. Wouldn't say he was given a chance

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 24, 2023

skybluecam said:
…no?

So how did you know better than our scouts?

skybluecam · Aug 24, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
So how did you know better than our scouts?

Just seemed strange to sign a 20yo and immediately send him on loan to league two. You’d think if he was ever going to be able to contribute to the first team he’d be beyond that level.

David O'Day · Aug 24, 2023

no, don't be silly

Frostie · Aug 24, 2023

skybluecam said:
Just seemed strange to sign a 20yo and immediately send him on loan to league two. You’d think if he was ever going to be able to contribute to the first team he’d be beyond that level.

At a similar age, a young Matty Godden was being sent out on loan by Scunthorpe to Gainsborough Trinity in National League North to get games.
Progression amongst young players isn't linear.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 24, 2023

skybluecam said:
I never understood the Cashman signing, he was already 20 and we obviously didn’t rate him high enough to be in the first team (with the immediate loan).

What was the point?

He obviously has some ability, it's just nobody's harnessed it. Age 20 on a punt, was worth a flutter.

chiefdave · Aug 24, 2023

Bring back the reserve league and play the games in the evening when people can actually go

skybluecam · Aug 24, 2023

Frostie said:
At a similar age, a young Matty Godden was being sent out on loan by Scunthorpe to Gainsborough Trinity in National League North to get games.
Progression amongst young players isn't linear.

Kind of my point, I wouldn’t want to sign a 20yr old Godden who at his peak is a good championship player and didn’t reach that level until 29/30.

fatso · Aug 24, 2023

I heard a while ago that MR wants to massively improve the standard of the talent in the youth set up, and has challenged everyone involved to make it happen and to put pressure on the first team squad.

It's obviously not going to happen overnight, and we are still carrying a lot of kids from the sisu era when the money wasnt there and the quality was questionable.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 24, 2023

Think there's a very strong argument for this and to go back to just having a 'B' side.

ajsccfc · Aug 24, 2023

I used to love the reserves at HR. You used to get in for next to nothing, sit in the main stand like a fancypants and there were so few people there you could hear Willie Boland swear up an absolute storm before being sent off

chiefdave · Aug 24, 2023

ajsccfc said:
I used to love the reserves at HR. You used to get in for next to nothing, sit in the main stand like a fancypants and there were so few people there you could hear Willie Boland swear up an absolute storm before being sent off

10p to buy a 'program' aka a photocopy of the line ups

shmmeee · Aug 24, 2023

No need. Should go U18s straight to first team squad. If they’re not in the 25 best players loan them out, even if just to a local team for game time.

Id be fine with B teams as long as it’s a separate league and you don’t get Man City B in the Championship.

skybluecam · Aug 24, 2023

Brentford did it because there’s 0 point operating an academy in London if you’re not Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs.

Not sure if we experience similar from the likes of Villa, Wolves & Leicester.

I think our academy has been pretty successful over the last ~ 10 years.

Wyken Sky Blue · Aug 24, 2023

I watched us play Nuneaton during pre-season, none are good enough for us and most aren't good enough professionally

You'll know before they turn 18 if they are good enough

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Londonccfcfan · Aug 24, 2023

skybluecam said:
Just seemed strange to sign a 20yo and immediately send him on loan to league two. You’d think if he was ever going to be able to contribute to the first team he’d be beyond that level.

For every Cashman etc there will also be a Hyam type who we bring in for the under 21s u23s who do make it to a very high level and gave us excellent value service.

Saddlebrains · Aug 24, 2023

Londonccfcfan said:
For every Cashman etc there will also be a Hyam type who we bring in for the under 21s u23s who do make it to a very high level and gave us excellent value service.

I mean there literally isnt is there.

Statistically over the last 7 years or so we've got 1 Hyam for every 80 plus Cashmans

Its not viable, none of them will make it and we may aswell sack it off, focus on hoovering up the best U18 talent

Londonccfcfan · Aug 24, 2023

Saddlebrains said:
I mean there literally isnt is there.

Statistically over the last 7 years or so we've got 1 Hyam for every 80 plus Cashmans

Its not viable, none of them will make it and we may aswell sack it off, focus on hoovering up the best U18 talent

True and I guess Hyam only got a chance as we were in league 2. Would he have broken into the championship at 21/22 yrs doubt it.

Pusb1 · Aug 24, 2023

skyblue1991 said:
I watched us play Nuneaton during pre-season, none are good enough for us and most aren't good enough professionally

You'll know before they turn 18 if they are good enough

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

exactly. Our U23's got battered by Nuneaton. Who with all due respect lost 7-0 last game. Haven't won a game all season albeit it's only 3 games in. And are in the lowest league (aside from their demotions for admin) for some time.

We are literally employing Sunday League footballers

U23's... should we stop it? (3 Viewers)

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