Two wrongs don't make a right (9 Viewers)

japandy · Apr 23, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Martin Reeves is CCC Chief Exec & Chris West is the Finance Director. Neither are Councillors, and in theory have no authority over council policy.

They are on the payroll of CCC so therefore have the Council's backing and the Council's interest at heart. Sorry I should have said 'work for' the council and are not councillors as we know them to be. But that doesn't detract from the fact that the CCC gave a 14million 'loan' with public funds to a company that two of their main council workers have an interest in, and that money was used to enable that company to submit a writ onto SISU thereby forcing SISU into administration.
That is an illiegal act and that is why SISU are contesting the legality of the 'loan'.

Tonylinc · Apr 23, 2013

Japandy.....Do you wish for a Sisu victory here and if so why? Do you think that that would benefit ccfc?

bigfatronssba · Apr 23, 2013

japandy said:
They are on the payroll of CCC so therefore have the Council's backing and the Council's interest at heart. Sorry I should have said 'work for' the council and are not councillors as we know them to be. But that doesn't detract from the fact that the CCC gave a 14million 'loan' with public funds to a company that two of their main council workers have an interest in, and that money was used to enable that company to submit a writ onto SISU thereby forcing SISU into administration.
That is an illiegal act and that is why SISU are contesting the legality of the 'loan'.

That hasn't been proven yet, and is unlikely to be imo.

Whilst taking the moral superiority here Japandy, could you give us in your opinion, what motivation, other than Spite, Sisu have for taking this action?

leicesterskyblue · Apr 23, 2013

japandy said:
They are on the payroll of CCC so therefore have the Council's backing and the Council's interest at heart. Sorry I should have said 'work for' the council and are not councillors as we know them to be. But that doesn't detract from the fact that the CCC gave a 14million 'loan' with public funds to a company that two of their main council workers have an interest in, and that money was used to enable that company to submit a writ onto SISU thereby forcing SISU into administration.
That is an illiegal act and that is why SISU are contesting the legality of the 'loan'.

They sit on the board of ACL on behalf of CCC, not as private individuals therefore they have no personal interest. As has been stated by Waldorf, the loan that the Council underwrote (essentially if not in legal terms) by lending ACL the money was to enable ACL to restructure its debts, take advantage of the preferential rates on lending that Council's benefit from ( ie a loan from CCC is cheaper than a loan from a bank) which was to enable ACL to lower the rent and still be viable. Such development loans are perfectly legal and are commonplace wherever a Council in involved on a development of any scale. Usually its used for building new stuff, but isn't unheard of when working in partnership with third parties. It makes the Council interest, interest which would then be reinvested in services, whereas the 14mil itself would be paid back either into reserves or to the bank. The money was never there to be used on social issues.

The needless case bought by SISU, which they'll lose WILL cost the taxpayer money however, unless the Council get damages.

Smoke and mirrors by SISU, more stalling tactics! Sooner they've gone the better.

letsallsingtogether · Apr 23, 2013

Yes and these two men are also professional and not Laymen as you mentioned earlier I do not delieve they would hand this money / loan over without first taking advice

bigfatronssba said:
Martin Reeves is CCC Chief Exec & Chris West is the Finance Director. Neither are Councillors, and in theory have no authority over council policy.

theferret · Apr 23, 2013

letsallsingtogether said:
Yes and these two men are also professional and not Laymen as you mentioned earlier I do not delieve they would hand this money / loan over without first taking advice

I should hope so, Martin Reeves earns £175,000 a year. For that sort of money you'd hope the people of Coventry would get someone with their head screwed on.

Jack Griffin · Apr 23, 2013

Japandy are you a Mormon?

japandy · Apr 23, 2013

Tony and Ron I will answer these points together.

I don't take sides. Just because one is bad doesn't necessarily make the other good. I informed you guys that SISU will do this but that doesn't mean I am 'on their side'. SISU are in the business of either turning companies around or closing them. For this is their game. Cllr Mutton and others played into their hands and they, I am sure, are enjoying every minute of this. For SISU this is war and they are not going to just go away.

We can 'blame' everyone we like but that doesn't change a think. I remember once on GMK there was a thread about Dowie and his favourite films. He said Patch Adams and I too have been influenced by that movie. In it there is a line that says - there are no problems, only solutions - and st no point in the last 20 years have the boards or owners, or people in the powers that be have ever looked at solutions.

I apologise if I strike you as taking the 'higher' ground because that is not my goal as you are soulmates.

WE fans are in this together and the only group who seem to be actually serious in all this are the fans, the Trust, the manager and the team.

japandy · Apr 23, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Japandy are you a Mormon?

yes are you brother jack?

RPHunt · Apr 23, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
Japandy are you a Mormon?

Trouble with the spell checker again?

bigfatronssba · Apr 23, 2013

japandy said:
Tony and Ron I will answer these points together.

I don't take sides. Just because one is bad doesn't necessarily make the other good. I informed you guys that SISU will do this but that doesn't mean I am 'on their side'. SISU are in the business of either turning companies around or closing them. For this is their game. Cllr Mutton and others played into their hands and they, I am sure, are enjoying every minute of this. For SISU this is war and they are not going to just go away.

We can 'blame' everyone we like but that doesn't change a think. I remember once on GMK there was a thread about Dowie and his favourite films. He said Patch Adams and I too have been influenced by that movie. In it there is a line that says - there are no problems, only solutions - and st no point in the last 20 years have the boards or owners, or people in the powers that be have ever looked at solutions.

I apologise if I strike you as taking the 'higher' ground because that is not my goal as you are soulmates.

WE fans are in this together and the only group who seem to be actually serious in all this are the fans, the Trust, the manager and the team.

I agree with you on that, but that for me is why Sisu have to go.

Regardless of who is right and wrong the situation is CCFC need the financial benefits of the Ricoh. ACL owners will not sell whilst Sisu are in charge, the only realistic venue for CCFC to play in is the Ricoh, therefore the only way for CCFC to progress is for Sisu to go.

fernandopartridge · Apr 23, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
This makes no sense. ACL had every legal right to pursue the money they were owed under a contract Sisu broke. Its a contract law issue.

No it's a property issue. Not much to do with contract law

warwickcccfc · Apr 23, 2013

torchomatic said:
And how do the the citizens of Coventry benefit now?

They own an asset...unlike handing it over to a private equity fund to 'flip' at a profit benefitting their shareholders.

Would you prefer that?

Nonleagueherewecome · Apr 23, 2013

japandy said:
They are on the payroll of CCC so therefore have the Council's backing and the Council's interest at heart. Sorry I should have said 'work for' the council and are not councillors as we know them to be. But that doesn't detract from the fact that the CCC gave a 14million 'loan' with public funds to a company that two of their main council workers have an interest in, and that money was used to enable that company to submit a writ onto SISU thereby forcing SISU into administration.
That is an illiegal act and that is why SISU are contesting the legality of the 'loan'.

No it isn't. We know who has broken the law. Give us an "S"...

cloughie · Apr 23, 2013

japandy said:
So SISU have messed ACL about concerning non-payment of rent. Whether people like SISU or not they are perfectly entitled to challenge the 'legality' of the CCC bailing out a company,that without this 'assistance' would have gone into administration themselves soleely to take another company into administration. This ia an unlawful act and abuse of public funds.
If people are so unsure about this then why couldn't ACL borrow this money from the bank, where most of us would do?
There are a number of Councillors who seem to think they have the 'right' to use public money just because they don't like someone's face. The Council have acted, not in the public's interest but in the interest of their own wellbeing.
Schools and hospitals are cutting back all the time so how can the Council say that this 'loan' is in the best interest of the public. This 14 million loan is being used to wind up a club who contibute so much to the City's past, present and future.
I look at this from a 'legal' perspective and it is imperative that SISU do this because the Council should not use public funds. My view has nothing to do with the football side of things.
I am sure the management of SISU want shut of us as quickly as we do of them. BUT this whole scenario should be done in a way that will enable the club to prosper, and not done that make the name CCFC a laughing stock in the world of sports.

The first 2 points are not fact but your opinion that you are portraying as fact
The 3rd SO YOU would be happy paying a higher rate of interest even if you knew you could get it cheaper and the lender would make a profit for the well being of the city of coventry
The council is given a budget from central government for services and what ever cuts are applied are caused by central government cuts the local council. The local council just decide from where the cuts are going to be and cannot go into reserves etc to cover day to day services.

The loan has not come from the budget given by central government

So sorry but an in factual post

Jack Griffin · Apr 24, 2013

japandy said:
yes are you brother jack?

I'm an atheist.

Well that explains your affiliation to Joy & her cronies, her main backers are the Huntsman familiy & guess what they're Mormon & filty rich.

Wouldn't surprise me if a good number of other posters are similarly connected.

Next question for Japandy, does your religion and/or their preachers tell you to support other Mormon interests?

davebart · Apr 24, 2013

japandy said:
I look at this from a 'legal' perspective and it is imperative that SISU do this because the Council should not use public funds. My view has nothing to do with the football side of things.

Just started a legal correspondence course have we or just put in a job application to SISU?

They also have nothing to do with the football side of things.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 24, 2013

stupot07 said:
Yeah they do. Here's June 2012 transfers - they are either freebies or undisclosed....would you like me to post Julys for you?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/18294258
30 JUNE

Kyle Lafferty [Rangers - Sion] Free
Steven Whittaker [Rangers - Norwich] Free
29 JUNE

Keith Andrews [West Brom - Bolton] Free
Michael Coulson [Grimsby - York] Free
Warren Cummings [Unattached - AFC Wimbledon]
Ben Foster [Birmingham City - West Brom] Undisclosed
Danny Guthrie [Newcastle United - Reading] Free
John McReady [Darlington - York] Free
James Meredith [York - Bradford] Free
Oliver Norwood [Manchester United - Huddersfield] Free
28 JUNE

Mathieu Baudry [Bournemouth - Leyton Orient] Free
Jordan Brown [West Ham - Barnet] Free
Tom Cruise [Arsenal - Torquay] Free
James Hayter [Doncaster - Yeovil] Free
Jamie McAllister [Bristol City - Yeovil] Free
Mladen Petric [Hamburg - Fulham] Free
Michael Poke [Brighton - Torquay] Free
Michael Symes [Bournemouth - Leyton Orient] Free
Yakubu [Blackburn - Guangzhou R&F] Undisclosed
27 JUNE

Robbie Blake [Bolton - Doncaster] Free
David Cotterill [Unattached - Doncaster] Free
Ishmel Demontagnac [Notts County - Northampton] Free*
Samba Diakite [Nancy - QPR] Undisclosed
Paul Dixon [Dundee United - Huddersfield] Free*
Mark Ellis [Torquay - Crewe] Undisclosed
Lewis Hatch [Unattached - Accrington]
Damien McCrory [Dagenham & Redbridge - Burton] Free
26 JUNE

Troy Archibald-Henville [Exeter - Swindon] Undisclosed*
Craig Easton [Unattached - Torquay United]
Olivier Giroud [Montpellier - Arsenal] Undisclosed
Michael Jacobs [Northampton - Derby County] Undisclosed*
Oli Johnson [Oxford United - York City] Free
Dean Leacock [Leyton Orient - Notts County] Free
Bruno Saltor [Valencia - Brighton] Free
James Wallace [Everton - Tranmere] Undisclosed
25 JUNE

Guy Branston [Bradford - Aldershot] Free
Danny Murphy [Fulham - Blackburn] Free
23 JUNE

Sean Scannell [Crystal Palace - Huddersfield] Undisclosed
22 JUNE

Gary Jones [Rochdale - Bradford City] Free *
Shinji Kagawa [Borussia Dortmund - Manchester United] Undisclosed *
Jordon Mutch [Birmingham - Cardiff] Undisclosed
Frank Nouble [West Ham - Wolves] Free
Jamie Tank [Walsall - Wolves] Undisclosed
21 JUNE

Danny Cadamarteri [Unattached - Carlisle]
Anthony Gardner [Crystal Palace - Sheffield Wednesday ] Free *
Robert Green [West Ham - QPR] Free *
Kevan Hurst [Walsall - Southend] Free
Gary Liddle [Hartlepool - Notts County] Free
Chris Maguire [Derby County - Sheffield Wednesday] Undisclosed
Jay McEveley [Barnsley - Swindon] Free
Mido [Zamalek - Barnsley] Free
Tommy Miller [Huddersfield - Swindon] Free
Alan Navarro [Brighton - Swindon] Free
20 JUNE

Mohamed Diame [Wigan - West Ham] Free
Ryan Doble [Southampton - Shrewsbury] Free
Didier Drogba [Chelsea - Shanghai Shenhua] Free
Paul Green [Derby - Leeds] Free *
Callum Kennedy [Swindon - Scunthorpe] Free
Tomasz Kuszczak [Manchester United - Brighton] Free
Laurence Wilson [Morecambe - Rotherham] Free
19 JUNE

Jean-Louis Akpa Akpro [Rochdale - Tranmere] Free
Adam Drury [Norwich - Leeds] Free
Jacob Mellis [Chelsea - Barnsley] Free
George Miller [Preston - Accrington] Free
Bjorn Sigurdarson [Lillestrom - Wolves] Undisclosed **
18 JUNE

Lionel Ainsworth [Shrewsbury Town - Rotherham United] Undisclosed
Sol Bamba [Leicester - Trabzonspor] Undisclosed
James Collins [Shrewsbury - Swindon] Free
Rhys Evans [Staines Town - Exeter City] Free
Steven Gillespie [Colchester - Fleetwood] Undisclosed
Andrew Johnson [Fulham- QPR] Free
Ryan Nelsen [Tottenham - QPR] Free
Bobby Olejnik [Torquay - Peterborough United] Undisclosed
Gary Roberts [Huddersfield - Swindon] Free
Daniel Taylor [Newcastle - Oldham] Free
Andy Williams [Yeovil - Swindon] Free
15 JUNE

Bartosz Bialkowski [Southampton - Notts County] Free
Luke O'Neill [Mansfield - Burnley] Undisclosed
14 JUNE

Troy Brown [Rotherham - Aldershot] Free
Sam Cowler [West Ham - Barnet] Undisclosed
David Gray [Preston - Stevenage] Free
Olly Lancashire [Walsall - Aldershot] Free]
David Syers [Bradford - Doncaster] Free
George Williams [MK Dons - Fulham] Undisclosed
13 JUNE

Terrell Forbes [Leyton Orient - Chesterfield] Free
Anthony Grant [Southend - Stevenage] Free *
Jussi Jaaskelainen [Bolton - West Ham] Free *
Jon Parkin [Cardiff - Fleetwood] Free
12 JUNE

Josh Lillis [Scunthorpe - Rochdale] Free *
Jody Morris [St Johnstone - Bristol City] Free *
Nick Powell [Crewe - Manchester United] Undisclosed *
Enoch Showunmi [Tranmere - Notts County] Free
11 JUNE

Rhys Bennett [Bolton - Rochdale] Free *
Mike Edwards [Notts County - Carlisle] Free
Sam Foley [Newport County - Yeovil] Free
Louis Harris [Wolves - AFC Wimbledon] Free
Stacy Long [Stevenage - AFC Wimbledon] Free
10 JUNE

Jay Rodriguez [Burnley - Southampton] Undisclosed
9 JUNE

Joe Mattock [West Bromwich Albion - Sheffield Wednesday] Free
Kelvin Etuhu [Portsmouth - Barnsley] Free
8 JUNE

Marcus Bean [Brentford - Colchester United] Free
Connor Brown [Sheffield United - Oldham] Free
Peter Cavanagh [Fleetwood - Rochdale] Free
Darren Jones [Aldershot - Shrewsbury] Free *
Mat Sadler [Walsall - Crawley] Free
7 JUNE

Kari Arnason [Aberdeen - Rotherham] Free *
Lee Bullock [Bradford City - York City] Free
Danny Harrison [Rotherham United - Tranmere Rovers] Free
Damien Johnson [Plymouth Argyle - Fleetwood Town] Free
Keith Keane [Luton - Preston] Free *
Niko Kranjcar [Tottenham - Dynamo Kiev] Undisclosed
Rory McArdle [Aberdeen - Bradford City] Free *
6 JUNE

Danny Swanson [Dundee United - Peterborough United] Free
5 JUNE

Zander Diamond [Oldham - Burton] Free
4 JUNE

Eden Hazard [Lille - Chelsea] Undisclosed
3 JUNE

Dirk Kuyt [Liverpool - Fenerbahce] Undisclosed
2 JUNE

Sam Hird [Doncaster - Chesterfield] Free *
Reuben Reid [Oldham - Yeovil] Free *
1 JUNE

Ben Burgess [Notts County - Tranmere] Free *
Lewis Grabban [Rotherham - Bournemouth] Undisclosed *
Alex Nicholls [Walsall - Northampton] Free *

I consider myself corrected however if you look at it I was right because most weren't undisclosed but free !!!!!

torchomatic · Apr 24, 2013

Interesting conversation on Twitter between Maton and Les Reid. Bascially, it seems that CCC didn't play by the book with their bail out or "loan swap" as Maton likes to label it. Reid says there should be more openness regarding the deal, where the money came from, etc

https://twitter.com/Lesreidpolitics

smouch1975 · Apr 24, 2013

I think as far as CCC are concerned, things should be looked at, along with a view to their timing. CCC have had eight years to find a better repayment plan than what Yorkshire Bank were offering. Why step in now????

DazzleTommyDazzle · Apr 24, 2013

Funny how the passage of time can make things clearer.

I was very critical of SISU over the way negotiations with ACL about the rent were handled. It seemed crazy to me that when they were locked into a legally binding contract and wanted the other party to amend the terms in their favour, that they should appear to go out of their way to upset them at every term.

Of course that would have been stupid, if they actually wanted to do a deal. If they had actually wanted to just spin things out - whilst not paying rent and so whilst financially weakening the other party - withy no intention of doing a deal, then there would have been some method in their apparent madness. :thinking about:

japandy · Apr 25, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I'm an atheist.

Well that explains your affiliation to Joy & her cronies, her main backers are the Huntsman familiy & guess what they're Mormon & filty rich.

Wouldn't surprise me if a good number of other posters are similarly connected.

Next question for Japandy, does your religion and/or their preachers tell you to support other Mormon interests?

Sorry I thought you were joking until I read that you are an atheist and I know they don't joke, lol. I am neither a moron or mormon, even though some would disagree.

Haha I don't think Joy is a mormon, or if she does she isn't the most compassionate person in the world.

Macca · Apr 25, 2013

So bored of waking up to this. My hazy understanding this morning is that the council is worse than North Korea and we should give the Ricoh to SISU to help the homeless. Or something like that anyway

psgm1 · Apr 25, 2013

japandy said:
Benny. I had a problem with my bank who through their bank charges took me overdrawn and then they incurred £25 a day charges on top of that. I refused to pay and my account went £500 over the limit. I contested that the bank were in the wrong because they had taken me overdrawn in the first place. They threatened to take me to court and I agreed to that action. In the space of two weeks I had 3 offers from them to first halve the amount, then third the amount and then quarter the amount. I then refuse completely not to pay a penny because they seem NOT to trust the amount I actually owed. The case went to the ombudsman and I won damages.
ACL are acting in the same way. They first state SISU owes them 1million, then 600,000 and then 400,000, so how much does SISU actually owe ACL?
KIf this was me I would also refuse to pay the amount until an actual amount had been settled.
I know you will say why have SISU not paid for so long? Sure the same can be said to why ACL allowed this amount to grow and grow?

CANNOT repeat CANNOT compare what sisu are doing with this! for a start ACL HAVE offered a reduced payment - sisu REFUSED this. Not only that, but they DeMANDED additional income streams!

Sisu could quite legally have bought a licence for the food & drink sales. There is no sign of sisu asking for such a licence EVER!

There is NO question over the amount owed by sisu - they have simply REFUSED to pay!

ACL have jumped through all the hoops, otherwise they wouldn't have been AGREED with by the courts when they accepted ACL's argument!

I find it staggering that people STILL try and defend the indefensible, and are being forced to use ever more ridiculous arguments!

Had ACL not offered a reduced rate or hadn't had a legally binding contract THEN you would have a case, but you just embarass yourself when you put this nonsense up!

dongonzalos · Apr 25, 2013

japandy said:
On the contrary SBB. If SISU win this case then the legality of our administration can, and will be contested. If the Council are found to have been in the wrong over this loan then ACL may themselves face a winding up order thereby allowing SISU to try and purchase the Ricoh at a low price.

How can the legality of our administration be questioned

The club put themselves into administration

Warwickhunt · Apr 25, 2013

japandy said:
On the contrary SBB. If SISU win this case then the legality of our administration can, and will be contested. If the Council are found to have been in the wrong over this loan then ACL may themselves face a winding up order thereby allowing SISU to try and purchase the Ricoh at a low price.

Can you imagine the Poo that will hit the fan if the judge finds in favour of SISU! They would sue ACL for loss of earnings to the extent that if they had not applied to put us in Administration then SISU would not have had to defend themselves by forcing theirs through, which then implys the leagues decision to dock us 10 points would be illegal thus also bringing on that we could have got into the playoff and won to get promoted. £20 million compo i would say

theferret · Apr 25, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I'm an atheist.

Well that explains your affiliation to Joy & her cronies, her main backers are the Huntsman familiy & guess what they're Mormon & filty rich.

Wouldn't surprise me if a good number of other posters are similarly connected.

Next question for Japandy, does your religion and/or their preachers tell you to support other Mormon interests?

Does the paranoia really run that deep? Are we suggesting this is now a Mormon conspiracy?

What next, secret subterranean temples? Animal sacrifice? People dancing naked around fires wearing David Icke masks shouting "wahoooba"?

Fuck me.

lordsummerisle · Apr 25, 2013

Jack Griffin said:
I'm an atheist.

Well that explains your affiliation to Joy & her cronies, her main backers are the Huntsman familiy & guess what they're Mormon & filty rich.

Wouldn't surprise me if a good number of other posters are similarly connected.

Next question for Japandy, does your religion and/or their preachers tell you to support other Mormon interests?

Christ, anybody who doesn't scream "Sisu Out" with every post is a Mormon now?

I did quite like Crazy Horses though.

lordsummerisle · Apr 25, 2013

theferret said:
Does the paranoia really run that deep? Are we suggesting this is now a Mormon conspiracy?

What next, secret subterranean temples? Animal sacrifice? People dancing naked around fires wearing David Icke masks shouting "wahoooba"?

Fuck me.

Great minds etc., though my typing obviously slightly slower!

theferret · Apr 25, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Great minds etc., though my typing obviously slightly slower!

I get a woman in to do my typing for me. She's not a Mormon though, at least as far as I know but I might have to stick some probes into her to be sure.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Apr 25, 2013

Warwickhunt said:
Can you imagine the Poo that will hit the fan if the judge finds in favour of SISU! They would sue ACL for loss of earnings to the extent that if they had not applied to put us in Administration then SISU would not have had to defend themselves by forcing theirs through, which then implys the leagues decision to dock us 10 points would be illegal thus also bringing on that we could have got into the playoff and won to get promoted. £20 million compo i would say

Hmmmm, getting a bit carried away perhaps?

Firstly, I can't see what link there is between the legality of the council's loan and ACL applying to put CCFC Ltd into administration
Secondly, you may recall that SISU/the club put CCFC Ltd into administration, so a bit tricky to take action against another party for attempting to do something that they themselves did.

I think a judge might point out that SISU didn't have to put the company into administration just because ACL threatened to. They could have defended the action, unless of course the company couldn't pay it's legally due debts in which case they would have had to put it into administration irrespective of any action by ACL.

lordsummerisle · Apr 25, 2013

theferret said:
I get a woman in to do my typing for me. She's not a Mormon though, at least as far as I know but I might have to stick some probes into her to be sure.

Don't take your tinfoil hat off though first, that's how they get to you.

Sky Blues · Apr 25, 2013

theferret said:
People dancing naked around fires wearing David Icke masks shouting "wahoooba"?

If they were wearing David Icke shell suits that would be a real fire hazard...

torchomatic · Apr 25, 2013

It is unbelievable, isn't it? Anyway, at least it's not the Scientologists. We would be fucked then.

theferret said:
Does the paranoia really run that deep? Are we suggesting this is now a Mormon conspiracy?

What next, secret subterranean temples? Animal sacrifice? People dancing naked around fires wearing David Icke masks shouting "wahoooba"?

Fuck me.

Cityfan1 · Apr 25, 2013

Just because your Paranoid, doesnt mean they aint out to get ya

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