Is that around the level of current losses?
Is that around the level of current losses?Yes, the academy costs £1.1m to run, the fa give us c£500k
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But does it if all that is used to plug losses when there is a free pool or relatively cheap source of talent to pluck from others development?Cat 3 makes it harder to recruit, it also entails less coaching time and you're not competing against good quality academy and players, lowers the amount of compensatio
Some interesting points from Huddlesfield on it
http://mobile.htafc.com//news/article/academy-news-eppp-category-2-759941.aspx
Some more info here.
For example
11 year old cat 2: 260 hours coaching per annum v 150 coaching hours a week (cat 3)
15/16 year old: 624 hours coaching (cat 2) vs 312 coaching hours (cat 3)
By the time a player gets to 17 a ccat 2 academy player will have significantly more coaching hours and therefore more likely to have better technique, etc so more consistently produce decent youngsters.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ggjMAM&usg=AFQjCNFrtQlnt-Cis3WpM3F3qZMyAU_lKw
10 players from the academy made first team appearances this season, we've sold £8m worth of academy players in tbr last 5 years, it more than pays for itself in sales and savings in wage bill.
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Forgot to add at our current level are we able to attract either good enough talent or Indeed the physical specimens required for this division?But does it if all that is used to plug losses when there is a free pool or relatively cheap source of talent to pluck from others development?
Edit :-Oh. Senior moment
I think there are 3-4 pitches at Ryton that could be utilised also if upgraded.
And if our players go elsewhere, like Sambou has, we get less compensation for being a lower grade academy. So it will cost more to run and we'll get less money back.The major point he actually misses is that you are expecting the club to deliver the same quality of service on £500k less funds as we lose that without cat 2.
And if our players go elsewhere, like Sambou has, we get less compensation for being a lower grade academy. So it will cost more to run and we'll get less money back.
My post above kind of suggests the level we play at dictates what we get when selling.And if our players go elsewhere, like Sambou has, we get less compensation for being a lower grade academy. So it will cost more to run and we'll get less money back.
Forgot to add at our current level are we able to attract either good enough talent or Indeed the physical specimens required for this division?
Never hear or see it promoted in the media, for eons now.What's the score with the connection these days? Has it gone?
Yeah I get that, I suppose that was my point. You need cat 2 status so you get the money in, you need the facilities (floodlights, indoor pitch, etc) to not only get the money but also to enable coaching time all year around, you're not going to deliver a £1.1m cat 2 standard academt including coaching hours, etc when you are only getting £200k grant and don't have access to the facilities needed to deliver the coaching all year round.Things like coaching time aren't an issue as such as the requirements are minimum, there's nothing to stop the club putting in the same amount of coaching hours into the players as they do now to meet cat 2 status.
Thats the point he's making, all the requirements are minimum so there's nothing to stop us going above the minimum and running the academy to the standard we do now (the only difference would be limited access to indoor pitch stops us actually getting academy 2 status)
The major point he actually misses is that you are expecting the club to deliver the same quality of service on £500k less funds as we lose that without cat 2.
Still there, don't think the club has owned it for many years.What's the score with the connection these days? Has it gone?
Had to sell it when JH lost money with Washington Diplomats.Still there, don't think the club has owned it for many years.
http://www.sportsconnexion.co.uk/contact-us/
http://www.sportsconnexion.co.uk/about-us/
Yeah I get that, I suppose that was my point. You need cat 2 status so you get the money in, you need the facilities (floodlights, indoor pitch, etc) to not only get the money but also to enable coaching time all year around, you're not going to deliver a £1.1m cat 2 standard academt including coaching hours, etc when you are only getting £200k grant and don't have access to the facilities needed to deliver the coaching all year round.
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I get get that, but if you drop the academy, you're not going to 9-10 back up players of quality coming through, people like kelly-evens, George Thomas, etc will be on significantly less than signing players on loan or first team pro's to be back up. The academt is paying for itself.I get where you are coming from and I would like to retain the Cat 2 status but i really believe the club is strapped for cash and needs to save money and that is what this is all about.
In order to get the £500k grant you have to spend £600k. The first team wage budget is under constraint, no money from the owners so if the club can free up £400k of the £600k for the first team then on last seasons performance that might be just that extra bit of quality required for promotion to the championship Thats £400k that is taken away from funding the clubs core activity and what brings in the supporters , better players and in turn young players to the club. Beginning to move us out of his mess.
So progress with the first team has to be the priority and that in turn will drive additional revenue which at a later stage could be put back into the academy.
I get get that, but if you drop the academy, you're not going to 9-10 back up players of quality coming through, people like kelly-evens, George Thomas, etc will be on significantly less than signing players on loan or first team pro's to be back up. The academt is paying for itself.
And what you're saying is very short termist. The academy and sbitc is also very important for engaging young fans, my 5 year old goes to the Saturday club and idolises James maddison and he gets the link of starting with sbitc, practicing getting better and if good enough 1 day playing for Coventry. Kids identify with the youngsters that have come through the academy.
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But it generates far more than £600K in player sales. Not to mention a good chunk of our squad are academy graduates. Lose our status and it will be harder to recruit players.In order to get the £500k grant you have to spend £600k.
But it generates far more than £600K in player sales. Not to mention a good chunk of our squad are academy graduates. Lose our status and it will be harder to recruit players.
But that isn't the option. The academy makes a profit, if you lose the academy you don't have more money to put into the first team you have less. And you also have a big hole to fill in the squad in the likely event that you don't have as many players coming through at the required level. If you're a Wilson or a Maddison are you going to join a Cat 3 academy or look elsewhere?Extra First team Cash for success or a Cat 2 academy
Or maybe the club could ask?Probably help if the actually told the club what was on offer
Would you not normally expect when someone makes you an offer for them to actually tell you what the offer is?Or maybe the club could ask?
You could probably build an indoor pitch if you used the spare land and knocked down what used to be the indoor cricket centre (what is that actually used for now?). But you'd only have two outdoor pitches. How close would that get us to Cat 2 requirements?I've always thought buying back the connection would be ideal solution for the academy home long term
You could probably build an indoor pitch if you used the spare land and knocked down what used to be the indoor cricket centre (what is that actually used for now?). But you'd only have two outdoor pitches. How close would that get us to Cat 2 requirements?
Would certainly be nice to have everything on one site and under our own control.
It's used for 5 aside, netball, functions and a gym. Also classes, but the numbers have dropped on the football front not as many leagues now.
Is it big enough to fit a pitch that meets the requirements in or would you need to knock the building down? Will have to take a closer look at what the other requirements are.
If you could use the existing building it could probably be done relatively quickly and cheaply. If you've got to knock the building down and start again its a much bigger project.The whole area is more than big enough including the car park.
You would have to pay a bit though I imagine.
Unless it's just playing to the crowdWould you not normally expect when someone makes you an offer for them to actually tell you what the offer is?
I think that is what is hurting us the most in all of this,.But it generates far more than £600K in player sales. Not to mention a good chunk of our squad are academy graduates. Lose our status and it will be harder to recruit players.
If you could use the existing building it could probably be done relatively quickly and cheaply. If you've got to knock the building down and start again its a much bigger project.
Would you not normally expect when someone makes you an offer for them to actually tell you what the offer is?
With respect CD you did not answer my question about how you would spend the budget..... and you are not losing the academy just spending less. The club has no money and the budgets are usually set at the beginning of the season. Any kids we currently have in the academy will most likely stay over the next couple of years anyway so what exactly are you losing?
Yes but aas a landlord myself I expect them to ask me what they get for there money.Would you not normally expect when someone makes you an offer for them to actually tell you what the offer is?
But lets say you overheard one of your tenants on the phone to their parents saying they hoped to one day buy the own house. Would then assume they are leaving imminently and get someone else in without asking your existing tenant what their plans are?TBF if one of my tenants says they want to leave I put it straight on the market, I don't question their right to move or why.
Questions about Academies
1) what is the gross CCFC spend on the academy (ie before the grant)
2) how many Cat 2 academies are there in L1 and L2
3) what is the expected spend on a Cat 3 academy and what grant do you get
4) is there another way to channel talent in to the 1st team? or to develop saleable assets?
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