It will pause the killing. It'll be a temporary ceasefire in all but name really - like the Budapest Memorandum and Minsk Agreements, amongst many other treaties or agreements they have violated.
Boys, how else are you going to stop the war? Real answers.
It would be nice if Russia could just get what they deserve, but the whole worlds military are not going to get involved, so it isn't realistic. Ukraine should absolutely be involved in the talks, but Russia are the ones with the ball here. How else are you going to stop this? It isn't about appeasement, concessions, or punishment. It is about putting an end to the killing as soon as possible with the most diplomatic means necessary.
You aren't answering the question mate. What is the alternative?
I'm not pretending anything, and I don't think this will stop the war without some measures going in to stop Putin doing it again. I do know what is realistic and what isn't though, so unless you have a better alternative, I'm not really sure how you can come at anyone for that.
I've said before I'd be OK with allowing rUkraine into NATO as a safeguard against future Russian invasions. Otherwise, what is stopping one?Boys, how else are you going to stop the war? Real answers.
It would be nice if Russia could just get what they deserve, but the whole worlds military are not going to get involved, so it isn't realistic. Ukraine should absolutely be involved in the talks, but Russia are the ones with the ball here. How else are you going to stop this? It isn't about appeasement, concessions, or punishment. It is about putting an end to the killing as soon as possible with the most diplomatic means necessary.
Well one alternative is that we carry on doing what we were doing and Trump doesn’t bend over for a dictator. Mental I know.
If you think leaving the Ukrainians to be killed, raped and kidnapped by a psycho is some great humanitarian effort I’m not sure what to say TBH.
Every Putin expert says he respects force and nothing else. And that he won’t be able to believe what he’s managed to get out of Trump. But you seem to know better and think this time if we just give in he’ll go away. How did that work in 2014?
It will pause the killing. It'll be a temporary ceasefire in all but name really - like the Budapest Memorandum and Minsk Agreements, amongst many other treaties or agreements they have violated.
I've said before I'd be OK with allowing rUkraine into NATO as a safeguard against future Russian invasions. Otherwise, what is stopping one?
I've asked you this before: why hasn't Russia invaded Estonia?It won’t stop it
I've asked you this before: why hasn't Russia invaded Estonia?
If that is the case then Ukraine joining it should be of no concernBecause it’s unimportant
You do understand that invading a NATO country doesn’t mean that any other member has to support it?
Ok sure, but what is the alternative?
People are getting upset at the idea of trying to have peace talks, but not one person can come up with a realistic alternative.
Because it’s unimportant
You do understand that invading a NATO country doesn’t mean that any other member has to support it?
They do have to support it.
They don't have to put boots on the ground.
So what’s supporting it then?
And neither can you! That’s the entire point.
German officials have expressed surprise and bewilderment at Donald Trump’s claim that Russian officials would meet in Munich for a three-way discussion with the US and Ukraine.
The Russians are not here and they have not been invited.
It's readily available to view, it's not some secret document:
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
No it isn't the point. You came at me for giving a transparent opinion that the only way to stop the war is an attempt at peace talks, which involve measures to stop Putin doing it again put into them. It might not work, indeed, but there is no other option.
What you are saying is that I am wrong and that it should essentially be allowed to carry on with the war, as it is, and let thousands more die.
You’re suggesting something that won’t work then saying everyone else’s ideas won’t work so it has to be yours. I could do the same. Your idea also leads to thousands dying. You don’t have some magical no harm solution no matter how much you keep repeating that you do. Russian rule of Ukrainian territory will continue to be brutal and Russia will continue trying to destabilise and ultimately take over the country because that’s their aim.
I'm suggesting trying something different to what is happening now, which has led to hundreds of thousands of people being killed. That's it.
You want to let it carry on, with absolutely no end in sight.
I’m not shocked to see you don’t want peace and a war killing thousands over, doesn’t surprise me one bit! You seriously need a break from this forum, on it day and night 24/7 do you not think that’s a bit sad?You’re suggesting something that won’t work then saying everyone else’s ideas won’t work so it has to be yours. I could do the same. Your idea also leads to thousands dying. You don’t have some magical no harm solution no matter how much you keep repeating that you do. Russian rule of Ukrainian territory will continue to be brutal and Russia will continue trying to destabilise and ultimately take over the country because that’s their aim.
No U. You’re suggesting giving Russians free rein basically. Let them keep what they have occupied, keep raping, killing and kidnapping Ukrainians in those territories and providing no security guarantees so that they can come back and finish the job in a few more years. You’ve got this fantasy that giving in will mean no more deaths for some reason.
Ignore him he’s as clueless about this as he is about the football side of thingsWhere have I said any of that?
I think you have taken what you have read on Reddit and just projected that onto me!
Where have I said any of that?
I think you have taken what you have read on Reddit and just projected that onto me!
I don’t go on Reddit. Though your views are standard “I’ve been consuming Russian propaganda” stuff. But you keep saying you want to stop “hundreds of thousands being killed” and then suggesting giving an aggressor free rein to carry on just people should stop trying to stop them. It’s fantasy. And that’s even if you think the Ukrainians are just going to go “OK Trump made a deal I won’t fight back when someone tries to take my home”. I mean come on!
...a pointless country
Again, I haven't said any of this!
What's fantasy is expecting military action to Stop Russia, or to expect that the current status-quo is better than any attempts at peace talks.
Is this a reference to Ukraine?
He has stated numerous times he has no issue with Ukraine ceasing to exist and is perfectly happy to hand it over to Russia.
What I actually want is for Russia to withdraw from all the land, pay reparations and hand over Putin to be tried for war crimes in the same dock as Netanyahu. Clearly that is entirely unrealistic and a substantial compromise on it would be to allow Putin to keep the land he's stolen, forgo any reparations, forgive him of war crimes and in return just allow Ukraine to join NATO as a safeguard against future violence.I'm suggesting trying something different to what is happening now, which has led to hundreds of thousands of people being killed. That's it.
You want to let it carry on, with absolutely no end in sight.
The State Department never placed an order, the Biden administration asked the State Department to explore armoured vehicle options. “However,” the spokesperson added, “the solicitation is on hold and there are no current plans to issue it.”Yeah about that...
He has stated numerous times he has no issue with Ukraine ceasing to exist and is perfectly happy to hand it over to Russia.
What about its right to make international alliances of its choosing? Seems like a pretty basic tenet of national sovereignty.I have never said it doesn’t have the right to defend itself
What about its right to make international alliances of its choosing? Seems like a pretty basic tenet of national sovereignty.
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