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Tory Monopoly (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Grendel
  • Start date Jul 25, 2015
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cloughie

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 14, 2015
  • #386
Quote shimmee

Try looking a bit beyond what they say and check what they do. You'll be hard pushed to find an economist that thinks Osborne has been doing a great job.


This is correct and truthful but the gullible will believe the daily mail etc and believe it all
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #387
chiefdave said:
Yes, if they are creating a problem for everyone else. Other countries have rent control
Click to expand...

Rent control is certainly fairer than what they have done. I'm guessing that as you have started this you don't know about the BTL tax. From 2017, landlords must pay tax on the money they have borrowed to buy the investment. So, for example, if someone borrows £200,000 to buy a house for £250,000 and obtain a 5% yield in rent:

Their rental income is £12,500 per year.
Their tax (assuming 40%) is £5,000
And their mortgage interest (assuming 4% for now - but this will go up in future years) is £8,000.

So their expense is greater than their income. These are not ridiculous figures, they are probably quite typical.

It's not the BTL investor's fault that the population is growing and not enough houses are being built. Further, the vast majority of these landlords are good honest people.
Now consider the impact of this tax hike:

- No new investors, so house prices fall (not a bad thing)
- Existing BTL investors sell. Many of these houses are HMOs for students etc. So the number of people accommodated falls (a BTL house with six students is now owned by a family of 4).
- Rents go up from those that remain due to lack of rented accommodation.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #388
cloughie said:
Quote shimmee

Try looking a bit beyond what they say and check what they do. You'll be hard pushed to find an economist that thinks Osborne has been doing a great job.


This is correct and truthful but the gullible will believe the daily mail etc and believe it all
Click to expand...

Interesting, on what basis do you claim that "You'll be hard pushed to find an economist that thinks Osborne has been doing a great job."?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #389
mrtrench said:
I'm guessing that as you have started this you don't know about the BTL tax.
Click to expand...

Except that's not really what's happening is it? All that ischanging is what tax relief can be claimed on, ie: you can no longer claim onyour BTL mortgage interest.

So as an example a flat I've had my eye on has just sold for£120K, lets assume a 90% mortgage. That's payments of £457 a month or £5,484 ayear. Rent charged is £800 a month or £9,600 a year. So even if they are a toprate tax payer, which of course means they have a large income, they are stillup £4,116 a year. And of course there are plenty of other related costs thatare still tax deducible so with a half decent accountant they wouldn't bepaying that much tax.

No one is saying is BTL that is causing the population togrow. The issue is the sheer volume of properties that are BTL coupled with thedifficulty of a regular working person obtaining a mortgage.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #390
mrtrench said:
Interesting, on what basis do you claim that "You'll be hard pushed to find an economist that thinks Osborne has been doing a great job."?
Click to expand...

http://www.theguardian.com/business...attack-george-osborne-budget-surplus-proposal

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...on-austerity-harmed-the-economy-10149410.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...support-Osborne-s-deficit-reduction-plan.html

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.cz/2015/06/the-academic-consensus-on-impact-of.html

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/views-differ-on-shape-of-macroeconomics-2/?_r=0
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #391
Grendel said:
You really should do stand up.

This post is comedy genius.
Click to expand...

Refute some of the things he's posted then, with evidence.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #392
mrtrench said:
Rent control is certainly fairer than what they have done. I'm guessing that as you have started this you don't know about the BTL tax. From 2017, landlords must pay tax on the money they have borrowed to buy the investment. So, for example, if someone borrows £200,000 to buy a house for £250,000 and obtain a 5% yield in rent:

Their rental income is £12,500 per year.
Their tax (assuming 40%) is £5,000
And their mortgage interest (assuming 4% for now - but this will go up in future years) is £8,000.

So their expense is greater than their income. These are not ridiculous figures, they are probably quite typical.

It's not the BTL investor's fault that the population is growing and not enough houses are being built. Further, the vast majority of these landlords are good honest people.
Now consider the impact of this tax hike:

- No new investors, so house prices fall (not a bad thing)
- Existing BTL investors sell. Many of these houses are HMOs for students etc. So the number of people accommodated falls (a BTL house with six students is now owned by a family of 4).
- Rents go up from those that remain due to lack of rented accommodation.
Click to expand...


Good. There should be measures in place to ensure that houses are homes and not investment vehicles. I couldn't give two hoots about people with their 'property portfolios' - they're relying on low interest rates which are to the detriment of savers.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #393
chiefdave said:
http://www.theguardian.com/business...attack-george-osborne-budget-surplus-proposal

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...on-austerity-harmed-the-economy-10149410.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...support-Osborne-s-deficit-reduction-plan.html

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.cz/2015/06/the-academic-consensus-on-impact-of.html

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/views-differ-on-shape-of-macroeconomics-2/?_r=0
Click to expand...

The question wasn't "are there any economists that disagree with Osbourne". You could find 50 economists that agree with almost anything, and there are hundreds and thousands of them. The question was to support the claim that "you'd be hard pressed to find one who agreed"
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #394
fernandopartridge said:
Refute some of the things he's posted then, with evidence.
Click to expand...

I could but given he hasn't provided any evidence why bother.

The house owning bit was the real rib tickler. Labour hate the working classes getting home ownership as much as they defeat them receiving a decent education
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #395
Britain is fast becoming a country which is geared more and more towards the wealthy within society.

We are already looking at moving back to Bella Italia after being back for just over a year.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #396
chiefdave said:
This really annoys me. Its so pointless. Why get £30K plus of debt to do a degree that gives you zero chance of getting a job?

When I went to uni (back in 92) you went to do something relatively academic, science, engineering etc. It was bloody hard work, our lectures started at 7am and went on till 9pm some days! Numbers were lower but it was sustainable, no need to pay fees and all students were on campus in halls so no issues for local residents.

A mate of mine sent his 18 year old daughter to some agencies to get some office admin work over the summer and couldn't even get signed up without a degree. Why on earth do you need a degree for that?
Click to expand...

Haha, I graduated 2 years ago with a first class Masters in chemistry with industrial experience and extra curriculars and couldn't get a job in the industry because either the jobs weren't there or were in very short supply. Without the last minute offer of a PhD I'd have been up the creek without a paddle and in £25k of student debt to boot. And even those with science PhDs are hardly rolling in it.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #397
Sick Boy said:
Britain is fast becoming a country which is geared more and more towards the wealthy within society.

We are already looking at moving back to Bella Italia after being back for just over a year.
Click to expand...

Bye
 

cloughie

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #398
mrtrench said:
The question wasn't "are there any economists that disagree with Osbourne". You could find 50 economists that agree with almost anything, and there are hundreds and thousands of them. The question was to support the claim that "you'd be hard pressed to find one who agreed"
Click to expand...


Well I'm sure you will provide those economists that agree with him
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #399
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Haha, I graduated 2 years ago with a first class Masters in chemistry with industrial experience and extra curriculars and couldn't get a job in the industry because either the jobs weren't there or were in very short supply. Without the last minute offer of a PhD I'd have been up the creek without a paddle and in £25k of student debt to boot. And even those with science PhDs are hardly rolling in it.
Click to expand...

I had the similar experience after my degree and masters. It's soul destroying, couldn't afford to do a PhD as I had to start paying back the career development loan I took out for the masters the month after I graduated. I don't feel I gained a lot given my £20k debt I've paid back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #400
cloughie said:
Well I'm sure you will provide those economists that agree with him
Click to expand...

The Shadow Chancellor agreed with him...oh then changed his mind
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #401
stupot07 said:
I had the similar experience after my degree and masters. It's soul destroying, couldn't afford to do a PhD as I had to start paying back the career development loan I took out for the masters the month after I graduated. I don't feel I gained a lot given my £20k debt I've paid back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

My PhD is fully funded and is actually a little higher than usual because it is industrially sponsored. But the point stands, my masters degree is insufficient for most meaningful roles in the industry and for all the time and money spent achieving it that is a grand shame. It means another 4 years in academia which I know I do not want a future in but must do to get the job I ultimately want.

Doesn't help that pharma is shedding tens of thousands of jobs in the UK and the oil industry has followed.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 15, 2015
  • #402
skybluetony176 said:
Bye
Click to expand...

Don't worry, Tony. They have the Internet there too.
 

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 18, 2015
  • #403
cloughie said:
Well I'm sure you will provide those economists that agree with him
Click to expand...

It's not me making ridiculous statements.
 
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