That's bollocks imo. As long as players are getting paid what they want, I don't know think the rest of it is a detterant
It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.<snip> My parting shot would be the fact that sacking the manager has been tried over and over by this and most other clubs. It does not work. Why not try something different this time, stick with a good football man, ride out the bad times and see where it gets us.
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It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.
I was at Blackpool last season and made comment on the fact Oggy was so influential from the touchline. Again here at Fleetwood I was able to observe again up close. It seems to me Oggy has much of the decision making while the match is in progress. He talks the tactics and shows the board to the sub coming on, he gives the encouragement to them going on and coming off, he shouts from the touchline at players, he basically has a lot of control over the way we do our business on match day.
So what's wrong here?
Well he's the goal keeping coach not the team coach? I'm surprised that he has so much sway over the match and players during the game. TM rarely gets out his seat. Now two things bug me here.
TM surely needs to show he is in control, that the players are playing for him on a match day and all enthusiastic momentum, endeavor and encouragement should be coming from him?
The second thing is what I mentioned last year. Oggy has been with us as a faithful servant for ever. I like him but he is not a manager or team coach and I just sense that some of our troubles on match days can be attributed to his influence. We pay for an experienced manager/coach to do this job and we are getting Oggy far too ingrained on a match day basis with what is or isn't happening on the pitch. Players may be confused and Page certainly was when Oggy then Venus had words from the touchline and Page shouting back and arguing before Mowbray stepped up?
I'd like to see Oggy moved sideways and concentrate on the goalkeeper coaching and be nowhere near the touchline on match days. Isn't Venus and Mowbray enough? There may be too many chefs in the kitchen on match days and TM ought to be front and centre. He must show he is making decisions during games unimpeded by Oggy or anyone else. Oggy is the common denominator on the coaching side since our slide from grace. Not saying it's his fault but with match day touchline influence he has may be a contributing factor. Can we please ask TM to step in and be seen to step in?
Steve Cotterill would get us out this league in his first season IMO .Who would you appoint in his place ??
Then after that they lost about 10 games in the bounce and were in the relegation zone and still managed to get promoted.I think 10 league games max, how many points / wins would he need in the next 4? 2 wins and a draw? That would out us on 10 from 10?
People keep mentioning Barnsley. After 6 games barnsley had 7 points and won 2 games and were 14th. After 10 they were 13th (played 1 less than the rest of the league) 4 wins and 14 points. More importantly thet were scoring goals.
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I think they would be bothered if they wanted to stay long.Would players really be that bothered? Its not like they stay long these days.
There's been no rumours of the players not getting paid, that's happened at other clubs.
I sat pretty much next to the dug outs yesterday too so got too hear a lot of the commands.
•What I observed were that oggy was very present in the technical area but in a good way. He gave a lot of helping commands to RCC and at defending set pieces and to the new lad Sterry. Not so much decision making more reminding of positional play and especially to RCC to wind the click down till half time when Turnbull was limping badly.
• oggy as you say drills the subs on technical aspects from various sheets.
• JC is also very instrumental in the technical area, in a more quiet way pulling players close for a word.
• TM was up and down out of his seat offering his opinion, first half in particular, the second I don't think he moved. Shaking his head in disbelief a lot. Tho started to come in for heavy criticism from those seated close making there feelings known.
• on a side note Uwe Rostler was a entertaining watch, very animated and comical.
I agree with you Steve82 but my point being is it should not be his job to be this influential in my opinion. I want my manager to do what I believe in him for and why we brought TM in. I know he may approve of Oggy and others having sway in lots of areas and put trust in them but for me I think TM needs to get full control on match days at the touchline on every issue and decision. I don't want Oggy doing it. I want my man Mowbray asserting himself.
Yes Rosler was entertaining and wore his heart on his sleeve throughout. He at least made every decision and gave out instructions. he was the one putting an arm around the sub and telling him what he wanted as opposed to Oggy....when for me it should be Mowbray. I think there would be a contrasting difference from the players if they didn't have the 'legend' in Oggy to go through all the time.
It worked when we sacked Thorn. Pressley saved us from relegation and the 10-point deduction the following season. It worked when we sacked Pressley, Mowbray saved us from relegation. But for those two sackings we could have been in the Conference by now. If a manager is performing very poorly (as Mowbray has been for some time now), you can either give him more time or persist with him. But if you don't act and then results continue to be poor, sooner or later you will be blamed for not acting and disaster will ensue.
But hasn't moved us forward. Your projection of relegation to the Conference is a theory not a fact.
There are no facts on this. We could have kept Andy Thorn as manager and we could now be in the champions league.
Personally I would doubt this.
Of course there are facts, like us being in the bottom three of league 1, but only after 6 games. New. squad, young players...don't panic.
When is the time to panic?
I agree. The suggestion that an experienced manager would let oggy dictate systems, tactics, Subs, etc, is laughable.Despite my many misgivings about Mowbray I do not believe for one second he sits back and let's a goalkeeping coach do the tactics on match day.
When is the time to panic?
When is the time to panic?
It seems to be popular now that the coach or manager instructs someone further down the chain who does the yelling at the players and actually sorting things out. A total guess but maybe thats so the manager can concentrate on what's happening on the pitch.Despite my many misgivings about Mowbray I do not believe for one second he sits back and let's a goalkeeping coach do the tactics on match day.
I just don't get posts like this. How do you know? Do you work at the club? The probability is that you are guessing. Oggy could be fantastic. He could be terrible. If you don't know how can you say this decision or that decision needs to be made?If mogga does get sacked then we need to get rid of oggy aswell as his influence is not good around the club anymore as we lose manager after manager will he is bringing to the table other than 87 nostalgia I just don't know
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There will be lots of managers out there haooy to come and take the reigns. I would give him another couple of games, but he needs to turn this around and quickly.
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So we lose the next two games TM is sacked. Who do we bring in and how will this new person succeed where every other manager we have had since relegation from the PL has failed? Why would this one be different, particularly as he is inheriting TM's squad at least until January and possibly to the end of the season depending on how much money is left? At some stage, at some point a manager of our club has to be given a chance to develop things long term, where dispite poor results he is allowed to carry on. Mowbray is honest, experienced and seems to have a plan. You seem to simply want to take a punt that the next one will be different. Why? Everyone knows we are a basket case of a club. For me the one glimmer of hope, the one thing that takes away from the colossal off field mess is that we actually have stumbled onto someone who might be able to take us forward on the pitch despite our crap owners.There was an extended glimpse of this last season. I think he can do it again if he is given the time. It can almost be guaranteed that in a little over a year ( maybe less) all those now calling for Mowbray to go will be doing the same to his successor. The rigmarole will start again. I hope Anderson remembers his words at the Trust forum when he said that statistically it is proven that sacking a manager almost never works. I hope he sticks to his guns, refuses to pull the trigger and backs TM to the hilt. It might be one of the very few sensible things a Sisu appointee has done.
Bang onDo you think Mowbray will stay beyong his contract in the summer?
I like mowbray, I do. But I also have concerns about his management style, his stubbornness around tactics and the fact he still doesn't understand or know league one very well.
I'm not saying i want him sacked now, but I'm saying he needs to pull it around and sharpish otherwise the inevitable will happen.
Mowbray said this was a 2 year project, this was the season for pushing for promotion. You say he has a plan, what is it? We seem to have gone backwards.
1) for formation isnt working
2) we've scored just 2 league goals in 2 games and don't really look like scoring
3) hes brought in PL academy loans that are no better than our own players (page, sterry)
4) he continues to snub players - Ruben scored 1, got 2 assists and MOTM midweek then is an unused sub on sat.
5) he signed players that don't fit the system he wanted to play (e.g Reid)
You say he showed glimpses last season, the majority of that team isn't here, we're not building on last seasons success, we've had to totally rebuild, most of that is mowbrays fault.
How long do you give him? Will he stay and extend his contract?
I don't like the merry-go-round either And I do like mowbray, but he needs results.
As to who would come in? I don't know, but there will be plenty of takers.
Let's hope he gets some results in the next 2-3 games.
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This sounds ridiculous, but hear me out - in some ways it's not even so much about the results...its the manner of them and its about the fact that we seem to have gone backwards from last year. It's that we're trying to cram players into a formation that everyone can see isn't working and he's too stubborn to change it. It's his strange favouritism and snubbing of some players, and hit and miss signings.2 wins on trot and these threads dont happen
its understandable,but still kneejerk
trust in TM!
This sounds ridiculous, but hear me out - in some ways it's not even so much about the results...its the manner of them and its about the fact that we seem to have gone backwards from last year. It's that we're trying to cram players into a formation that everyone can see isn't working and he's too stubborn to change it. It's his strange favouritism and snubbing of some players, and hit and miss signings.
If we were sat here on these points as we are now, but we have just been excruciatingly unlucky, scoring goals, the system looked promising, the signings look better that last year, and it seems that at any point now our luck will turn and we'll give someone and absolute pounding, then I'd not be talking about Mowbray going.
But I don't think anyone feels like that
i wouldnt mind a return to 42-3-1 either.
we would still only get a 0-0Even we'd have a chance with 42 at the back.
Do you think Mowbray will stay beyong his contract in the summer?
I like mowbray, I do. But I also have concerns about his management style, his stubbornness around tactics and the fact he still doesn't understand or know league one very well.
I'm not saying i want him sacked now, but I'm saying he needs to pull it around and sharpish otherwise the inevitable will happen.
Mowbray said this was a 2 year project, this was the season for pushing for promotion. You say he has a plan, what is it? We seem to have gone backwards.
1) for formation isnt working
2) we've scored just 2 league goals in 2 games and don't really look like scoring
3) hes brought in PL academy loans that are no better than our own players (page, sterry)
4) he continues to snub players - Ruben scored 1, got 2 assists and MOTM midweek then is an unused sub on sat.
5) he signed players that don't fit the system he wanted to play (e.g Reid)
You say he showed glimpses last season, the majority of that team isn't here, we're not building on last seasons success, we've had to totally rebuild, most of that is mowbrays fault.
How long do you give him? Will he stay and extend his contract?
I don't like the merry-go-round either And I do like mowbray, but he needs results.
As to who would come in? I don't know, but there will be plenty of takers.
Let's hope he gets some results in the next 2-3 games.
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Because he's a legend and always will beHow is oggy still in a job?
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what's his aim ? if its promotion, we could do this via the play offs with is 7 points away. Plenty of time left yet
That is an important question, what indeed is the aim?
To most I think it would be a sustainable successful team.
Why do people think the necessity for promotion this year will achieve that?
The building of a successful club needs good foundations. Society seems to be losing that concept. Instant gratification seems more important than quality!
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