Tonight's statement from the administrator..... (8 Viewers)

Bennets Afro · May 25, 2013

If all monies paid for ltd go to Sisu, then how can they challenge ownership of something they in affect have just sold???

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Actually the administrators report lists the registrations in CCFC Ltd

the contracts we are told are in CCFC H

This statement changes nothing. The argument has always been that CCFC H have beneficial ownership, this is set out in his report and other statements.

It is beneficial ownership that SISU are relying on and if CCFC Ltd is bought by a 3rd party they can expect an immediate legal challenge and cost from CCFC H /SISU

OR, as I see it - the FL give the new owner of CCFC Ltd the GS, meaning the goodwill onus is upon Holdings. All they would have left is a pipe dream & the costs of running their version of a non-playing (in the FL) Club. So all associated will have a value but probably a much reduced one for SISU. Maybe this is a kind of warning shot to be sensible across Holding's bow?

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

Lord_Nampil said:
Think he's taking the Micky out of Tim Fisher .......

Ah yes - that might well be it.

CCFCSteve · May 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
Actually the administrators report lists the registrations in CCFC Ltd

the contracts we are told are in CCFC H

This statement changes nothing. The argument has always been that CCFC H have beneficial ownership, this is set out in his report and other statements.

It is beneficial ownership that SISU are relying on and if CCFC Ltd is bought by a 3rd party they can expect an immediate legal challenge and cost from CCFC H /SISU

I've not read the report so can't comment. How long have the player contracts been in holdings ?

There may be a legal argument but how much do sisu have to throw at this ? Beneficial ownership is a tricky one to prove and as I've alluded to a lot will come down to timings.

If sisu lost they would probably have costs awarded against. Big risk

oldskyblue58 · May 25, 2013

Skybluebazza, CCFCSteve - good points, all i was saying is how CCFCH/ SISU could well be seeing it. Right now they are in the box seat, that may change. Hopefully there will be an agreement of some sort that keeps our club playing in Coventry next season on a permanent basis

Pete in Portugal · May 25, 2013

stupot07 said:
But holdings have the player registrations and contracts, the football league have allowed this despite ltd having the golden share. I presume the FA even paid the £500k academy grant to holdings.

This is the problem and why I really can't see any alternative than sisu being the prefered bidder for ltd, regardless f what us the fans think.

Unfortunately, that is also my initial 'take' on the implications of the Administrator's statement. I don't understand why the FL have allowed the transfer of player registrations from Ltd, a Company in Administration, to Holdings? Presumably, the Administrator must have agreed to this, but why?

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

Pete in Portugal said:
Unfortunately, that is also my initial 'take' on the implications of the Administrator's statement. I don't understand why the FL have allowed the transfer of player registrations from Ltd, a Company in Administration, to Holdings? Presumably, the Administrator must have agreed to this, but why?

We do not know when this is supposed to have happened.

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

Pete in Portugal said:
Unfortunately, that is also my initial 'take' on the implications of the Administrator's statement. I don't understand why the FL have allowed the transfer of player registrations from Ltd, a Company in Administration, to Holdings? Presumably, the Administrator must have agreed to this, but why?

I thought the contracts were in Holdings, but the registrations have to sit with the Golden Share, which we now know is in Ltd, so they have been split. :thinking about:

dongonzalos · May 25, 2013

"If a suitable purchaser is identified, it will still be subject to the consent of the Football League and will also likely involve discussions between Holdings and that purchaser."

Classic

Sick Boy · May 25, 2013

dongonzalos said:
"If a suitable purchaser is identified, it will still be subject to the consent of the Football League and will also likely involve discussions between Holdings and that purchaser."

Classic

Which is why, IMO of course, sisu are going to be in charge next season.

Pete in Portugal · May 25, 2013

SkyblueBazza said:
We do not know when this is supposed to have happened.

My understanding is that the player registrations were in the Administrator's list of assets owned by CCFC Ltd when it went into Administration. So if they've been transferred to Holdings, it must have been after Ltd went into Administration surely? If this is correct, then both the FL and the Administrator have agreed to it. I just don't understand why?

SkyblueBazza · May 25, 2013

Pete in Portugal said:
My understanding is that the player registrations were in the Administrator's list of assets owned by CCFC Ltd when it went into Administration. So if they've been transferred to Holdings, it must have been after Ltd went into Administration surely? If this is correct, then both the FL and the Administrator have agreed to it. I just don't understand why?

You may be right...so many twists, turns, ifs & buts.

Diehard Si · May 25, 2013

The bit about it needing goodwill from everyone means that surely no good will come form it. SISU can only be relied on to do one thing.. Ruin everything.

Chipfat · May 25, 2013

Daryl Murphy

Potential scenarios now

a) Sisu buys CCFC Ltd and puts the club back together......... Fit and proper test would be the problem in my opinion to return the share

b) One of the 8 interested parties buys CCFC Ltd. @football league gives Golden Share to the new owner.... still have to agree with Sisu unless FA give all to ltd

c) CCFC Holdings doesn't end up with the Golden Share. Takes @football_league to court...... I think this is the most likely but without ground, investment or fans backing aswell as past record of running the club could be a hard case to win....

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

IF the right to play in the league GS is in Ltd and somebody bought Ltd then obviously Holdings would not have the right to play in the league. Therefore the players who are in Holdings could not ply their trade as professional footballers surely their contracts would be void or am I missing something here?

Lord_Nampil · May 25, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
IF the right to play in the league GS is in Ltd and somebody bought Ltd then obviously Holdings would not have the right to play in the league. Therefore the players who are in Holdings could not ply their trade as professional footballers surely their contracts would be void or am I missing something here?

I am guessing that would be the case! Some One mentioned rangers earlier and I guess it would be simular..... How much is holdings worth?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · May 25, 2013

Lord_Nampil said:
I am guessing that would be the case! Some One mentioned rangers earlier and I guess it would be simular..... How much is holdings worth?

Without the GS ?

Buster · May 25, 2013

Appleton is SISU's chosen administrator , lets not forget that! As i have posted b4 Sisu (unless they have lost their senses) are posturing when they they talk of 3 yrs out of town , with no supporters and at the same time funding another stadium in the coventry area. Appletons latest disclosure of the golden share with Ltd is to keep as many interested parties in on the act to enable sisu to settle on as higher price as possible for their departure. IMO !

wingy · May 25, 2013

Pete in Portugal said:
My understanding is that the player registrations were in the Administrator's list of assets owned by CCFC Ltd when it went into Administration. So if they've been transferred to Holdings, it must have been after Ltd went into Administration surely? If this is correct, then both the FL and the Administrator have agreed to it. I just don't understand why?

Interesting ...........To pay Saleries maybe??

What other assets were in LTD that the Administrator could sell?

Ripbuster · May 25, 2013

I'm of the impression we're transferred during "fundamental restructuring" in around may/June 2012 after relegation.

Aug 18, 2012 – The club had been split in two. The first entity is Coventry City Holdings Ltd (CCH) - which houses the managers, players and staff. Coventry City Football Club ...

CCFCSteve · May 25, 2013

Ripbuster said:
I'm of the impression we're transferred during "fundamental restructuring" in around may/June 2012 after relegation.

Aug 18, 2012 – The club had been split in two. The first entity is Coventry City Holdings Ltd (CCH) - which houses the managers, players and staff. Coventry City Football Club ...

I get that impression too but who knows. If true there are number of issues, especially as the transfer was to a connected party and there were external liabilities in limited (ie acl). What consideration was paid ie was it a potential transaction at undervalue would be my first question.

I hope it was just a coincidence that they stopped paying rent at this time as there is a potential misfeasance claim against the directors if assets were moved deliberately beyond the reach of creditors.

rupert_bear · May 25, 2013

Buster said:
Appleton is SISU's chosen administrator !

Have we got this chosen administrator right ? Just because he was chosen by sisu doesn't mean he is in cahoots with them. It maybe sisu wanted someone who would dig deeper into our murky financial past than perhaps another woud do. He has stated he has gone back as far as 1995, also said he is struggling to get answers from some and i believe he has also said once the administation process has been sorted he will be looking at dealings of directors and previous directors

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

Ripbuster said:
I'm of the impression we're transferred during "fundamental restructuring" in around may/June 2012 after relegation.

Aug 18, 2012 – The club had been split in two. The first entity is Coventry City Holdings Ltd (CCH) - which houses the managers, players and staff. Coventry City Football Club ...

Where is that from Ripbuster?

Ripbuster · May 25, 2013

I posted the site on another thread....Some accountancy site..

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

Ripbuster said:
I posted the site on another thread....Some accountancy site..

Thanks.

*rummages through threads*

dongonzalos · May 25, 2013

Buster said:
Appleton is SISU's chosen administrator , lets not forget that! As i have posted b4 Sisu (unless they have lost their senses) are posturing when they they talk of 3 yrs out of town , with no supporters and at the same time funding another stadium in the coventry area. Appletons latest disclosure of the golden share with Ltd is to keep as many interested parties in on the act to enable sisu to settle on as higher price as possible for their departure. IMO !

Exactly........

Ripbuster · May 25, 2013

Agreed,when Joy came to town to "sort it out" March 2012,wheels were put in motion....Had to wait until accounts we're submitted then they slipped in the part 2 of contingency plan

oldskyblue58 · May 25, 2013

the club was split or hived down in 1995. It wasn't split in 2012. What may have occurred is an attempt at rearranging how and where the trade and player contracts sit post 19/06/12. In a group situation that is possible except for a football club you cant simply transfer the league share on a whim. The league share carries with it the player registrations and the academy rights.

bigfatronssba · May 25, 2013

<p>

oldskyblue58 said:
the club was split or hived down in 1995. It wasn't split in 2012. What may have occurred is an attempt at rearranging how and where the trade and player contracts sit post 19/06/12. In a group situation that is possible except for a football club you cant simply transfer the league share on a whim. The league share carries with it the player registrations and the academy rights.

So do you think the club have broken the rules on this?

If so will the league act on it and what will be the punishment?

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
the club was split or hived down in 1995. It wasn't split in 2012. What may have occurred is an attempt at rearranging how and where the trade and player contracts sit post 19/06/12. In a group situation that is possible except for a football club you cant simply transfer the league share on a whim. The league share carries with it the player registrations and the academy rights.

I have a couple of questions arising from that for you OSB, if I may:

In a group situation can they rearrange where the player contracts and trade sits without the part of the business they are moving to adequately compensating the part of the business they are being taken from?

So the academy sits (or should sit) in CCFC Ltd? And, if so, why hasn't Appleton included it as an asset of CCFC Ltd?

stupot07 · May 25, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
<p>

So do you think the club have broken the rules on this?

If so will the league act on it and what will be the punishment?

The football league agreed to move the players registrations, therefore were complicit in it. I doubt they can punish the club for it.

Sky Blues · May 25, 2013

stupot07 said:
The football league agreed to move the players registrations, therefore were complicit in it. I doubt they can punish the club for it.

I guess it might depend what they told the Football League...

chiefdave · May 25, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
So do you think the club have broken the rules on this?

If so will the league act on it and what will be the punishment?

My feeling is the FL have allowed this, possibly by mistake. If they hadn't I'm certain there would have been a statement and / or punishment from them by now, the longer they stay silent the more it seems to indicate there's something they don't want to own up to.

Pete in Portugal · May 26, 2013

chiefdave said:
My feeling is the FL have allowed this, possibly by mistake. If they hadn't I'm certain there would have been a statement and / or punishment from them by now, the longer they stay silent the more it seems to indicate there's something they don't want to own up to.

That's my reading of the situation too. As OSB pointed out, the player registrations and academy must reside with the Company owning the golden share. According to the Administrators statement, the FL have agreed to the player registrations (but not the golden share) being transferred to Holdings. It would appear that this is the mistake by the FL that people have alluded to on this forum. I could be wrong, but I'd imagine that this re-enforces Holdings case for beneficial ownership of the golden share. It might also give Holdings some negotiating leverage in their dealings with with the FL. It depends on the circumstances that led to the mistake. I hope the FL did not allow the academy to transfer to Holdings too..........

vRS19TD · May 26, 2013

If Holdings claim to have beneficial rights to the share, then couldn't the FL state that Holdings is also in administration as it was supposed to be CCFC that was placed in admin, hence the 10 point deduction??

Tonight's statement from the administrator..... (8 Viewers)

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