Time to take back control (1 Viewer)

shmmeee · Mar 15, 2019

Been thinking about the whole stadium malarkey. We all want CCFC to have a secure home for the future. Currently the options on the table are:

- Rent from Wasps who rent from CCC
- Rent directly from CCC as part of ACL
- Rent from a Sisu propco in a new stadium

Many people, good, smart, attractive, well endowed people, think we should get a new ground. The Ricoh is too big and renting is too messy and the club need to be in control of their destiny. Sisu will always see land as an asset to be sweated, CCC won’t want to hand land over to Sisu because of this.

What about if something like the Chelsea Pitch Owners (Chelsea Pitch Owners - Wikipedia) was set up. A non-profit that holds the freehold of the land for the ground and the naming rights of the club. The “essence” of the club if you will would be owned by fans.

They could ask for land to be donated (or donations to buy land) and negotiate a long lease with the club owners on peppercorn rent and strict conditions of usage. Naming rights are harder but an emotional case could be tried.

Obviously the issue would be how you choose who runs such an organisation, but I’m sure that can be figured out. Personally I’m a fan of elections for President with season ticket holders getting a vote.

What do people think?

Liquid Gold · Mar 15, 2019

Although I'm failing in my intentions of not making this another trust bashing that is exactly the sort of thing a well functioning supporters trust should be doing.

Nick · Mar 15, 2019

Thought about something like this when we needed a training ground / academy. Could have been like a community hub.

I'd happily chip in to something like this and as long as it was just designated for ccfc to ensure the future it would be a win win.

The hard part would be getting sisu and the council to agree.

Ian1779 · Mar 15, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
Although I'm failing in my intentions of not making this another trust bashing that is exactly the sort of thing a well functioning supporters trust should be doing.

I agree - and my it’s current form, we could never entrust the SBT to be this body.

luwalla · Mar 15, 2019

Never happen, sorry to be a pessimist but neither the club or the council would be up for this. The club want to own their own ground and have full control of the club and all it’s assets... that’s where the value lies

usskyblue · Mar 16, 2019

shmmeee said:
Many people, good, smart, attractive, well endowed people think we should get a new ground.

Busted. You pegged me m8

SkyBlueZack · Mar 16, 2019

I suggested it before during the ricoh dispute as people were worried it would be bulldozed. Fans own the pitch, Sisu own the stadium building. It would have been an alternative to selling to wasps.

Skyblue_CP · Mar 16, 2019

I would also happily help and chip in with a project like this

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

luwalla said:
Never happen, sorry to be a pessimist but neither the club or the council would be up for this. The club want to own their own ground and have full control of the club and all it’s assets... that’s where the value lies

If it’s good enough for Abramovich....

The point is the club would essentially own the ground, just like Wasps essentially own the Ricoh. There’s just be a layer of protection that meant the ground had to be used for the club and changes couldn’t be made without consulting fans. Also the club gets free land essentially. They have a long lease and freedom to build an asset that turns a profit, as long as it doesn’t harm CCFC.

I think the council would be more up for it that giving land to Sisu. Obviously would depend on details but I don’t see why they’d be against it on principle. Of course if we could raise funds or get land from a private organisation you don’t need the council.

Sisu accepting the restrictions and handing over naming rights (though that’s less important) would be the real stumbling block.

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

usskyblue said:
Busted. You pegged me m8

Sorry m8, don’t mean to do your wife’s work for her

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

Ian1779 said:
I agree - and my it’s current form, we could never entrust the SBT to be this body.

No same here. Aside from anything else too much history.

Elections by ST holders is the best I can think. Maybe votes for anyone with a stub and double for ST or something.

How do Barcelona do it?

There’s not much actual “running” required after the initial negotiations I’d imagine.

Nick · Mar 16, 2019

shmmeee said:
No same here. Aside from anything else too much history.

Elections by ST holders is the best I can think. Maybe votes for anyone with a stub and double for ST or something.

How do Barcelona do it?

There’s not much actual “running” required after the initial negotiations I’d imagine.

The only thing with that is people who live abroad who would want to get involved.

A pro active membership system would sort that though.

Also as an idea Pompey used the crowd funding like Jimmy hill legacy fund did, offering things in return for donations.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 16, 2019

I like the idea but not sure it could work at the ricoh now (or in the past) because of the lease in place. It would have to be a new site I feel. Would also require a huge amount of fans trust, that simply isn't there.

One concern I have is the last paragraph of the Chelsea article, despite the stipulation around the name Chelsea fc still felt they could move to a new ground. Ok they lost the vote that time....

Also for such a big team raising the finance to repay the loan for the idea has been/was slow.

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
I suggested it before during the ricoh dispute as people were worried it would be bulldozed. Fans own the pitch, Sisu own the stadium building. It would have been an alternative to selling to wasps.

Problem is the Ricoh comes with all kinds of extra crap: the other businesses, the debt, the history, the fact it’s far too big for us.

Liquid Gold · Mar 16, 2019

Yeah, getting old players to donate stuff which are raffled/sold/auctioned would be a good way to raise initial funding.

Nick · Mar 16, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
Yeah, getting old players to donate stuff which are raffled/sold/auctioned would be a good way to raise initial funding.

As well as some bricks in the wall with names on

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

oldskyblue58 said:
I like the idea but not sure it could work at the ricoh now (or in the past) because of the lease in place. It would have to be a new site I feel. Would also require a huge amount of fans trust, that simply isn't there.

One concern I have is the last paragraph of the Chelsea article, despite the stipulation around the name Chelsea fc still felt they could move to a new ground. Ok they lost the vote that time....

Also for such a big team raising the finance to repay the loan for the idea has been/was slow.

I think that raises another point which is how to we build a fans representation that has trust after all this crap?

We clearly need a functioning, trusted fans voice. It should be the Trust, but how do you make that relevant to the actual day to day supporters and not something run by just those who put themselves forward and attend meetings? In an ideal world it’s be backed by the club, but that’s out the window right now.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 16, 2019

I think the only way to rebuild trust is a new start all round. Owners, ground, Trust, set up,etc. Sadly I don't see that happening.

The trust do a lot of hard work and some good things but allow themselves to become mired in things by poor communication and some questionable statements. They are an easy target but they don't help themselves at times. One of their biggest problems is there isn't enough people involved actually doing something. Plenty of people moaning though.

I am guessing that if this idea with a bit of work done on it to give a sound basis to the idea was put to them it would be well received and would be taken up. But then we get back to fans trusting.

I don't think I see the current owners going for it either. But depends if the scheme limits value for their investors, whether any new ground is based around more profitable things like retail outlets to facilitate giving on the pitch\identity idea etc

As for fan involvement in a ground ownership scheme like this or even the trust..... come on this is the digital age, email, apps, webinars etc..... it isn't rocket science..... But it requires time effort and funding.

Nick · Mar 16, 2019

oldskyblue58 said:
I think the only way to rebuild trust is a new start all round. Owners, ground, Trust, set up,etc. Sadly I don't see that happening.

The trust do a lot of hard work and some good things but allow themselves to become mired in things by poor communication and some questionable statements. They are an easy target but they don't help themselves at times. One of their biggest problems is there isn't enough people involved actually doing something. Plenty of people moaning though.

I am guessing that if this idea with a bit of work done on it to give a sound basis to the idea was put to them it would be well received and would be taken up. But then we get back to fans trusting.

I don't think I see the current owners going for it either. But depends if the scheme limits value for their investors, whether any new ground is based around more profitable things like retail outlets to facilitate giving on the pitch\identity idea etc

As for fan involvement in a ground ownership scheme like this or even the trust..... come on this is the digital age, email, apps, webinars etc..... it isn't rocket science..... But it requires time effort and funding.

People have shown they are willing to donate money and time / skills. Amongst the fan base there will be a range of different trades, experts.

Like you say though, the biggest issue is trust. That needs communication and transparency.

Irish Sky Blue · Mar 16, 2019

shmmeee said:
Problem is the Ricoh comes with all kinds of extra crap: the other businesses, the debt, the history, the fact it’s far too big for us.

I like the idea. I just don’t think the Ricoh is too big. A successful Championship side would get 25k plus attendances. If we were in the top flight you would hope we would get gates similar to Leicester. Too big at the moment though.

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT · Mar 16, 2019

shmmeee said:
Been thinking about the whole stadium malarkey. We all want CCFC to have a secure home for the future. Currently the options on the table are:

- Rent from Wasps who rent from CCC
- Rent directly from CCC as part of ACL
- Rent from a Sisu propco in a new stadium

Many people, good, smart, attractive, well endowed people, think we should get a new ground. The Ricoh is too big and renting is too messy and the club need to be in control of their destiny. Sisu will always see land as an asset to be sweated, CCC won’t want to hand land over to Sisu because of this.

What about if something like the Chelsea Pitch Owners (Chelsea Pitch Owners - Wikipedia) was set up. A non-profit that holds the freehold of the land for the ground and the naming rights of the club. The “essence” of the club if you will would be owned by fans.

They could ask for land to be donated (or donations to buy land) and negotiate a long lease with the club owners on peppercorn rent and strict conditions of usage. Naming rights are harder but an emotional case could be tried.

Obviously the issue would be how you choose who runs such an organisation, but I’m sure that can be figured out. Personally I’m a fan of elections for President with season ticket holders getting a vote.

What do people think?

Nice to have some positive idea's, it would be great if it came to fruition , you can only hope.

shmmeee · Mar 16, 2019

Irish Sky Blue said:
I like the idea. I just don’t think the Ricoh is too big. A successful Championship side would get 25k plus attendances. If we were in the top flight you would hope we would get gates similar to Leicester. Too big at the moment though.

I agree I think we need to be a top half Championship team. Now the way things are going that could be this time next year

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