zero, nil, nothing.
The stadium will be owned by SBS&L - will be a sister company to Otium.
If SISU build a new ground for £30m how much interest are they going to charge CCFC. Just use a percentage
No it's not a threat. He accuses me if not being a fan. In pretty certain he will not want to go in so I will meet him outside and he can see I am a fan. Its actually pathetic to suggest otherwise - I clearly am.
If you read back my original post I accept it could be misconstrued.
zero, nil, nothing.
The stadium will be owned by SBS&L - will be a sister company to Otium.
Ok then, how much will they charge us in rent? If I remember right, didn't Fisher dodge the question when asked at the forums. That in itself is a worry.
Ok then, how much will they charge us in rent? If I remember right, didn't Fisher dodge the question when asked at the forums. That in itself is a worry.
zero, nil, nothing.
The stadium will be owned by SBS&L - will be a sister company to Otium.
What he dodged was the question about if 'the club' would own it. And no, the club - being Otium - is not going to own it. It will be owned by a separate company in the SBS&L group. It is quiet common to place property in a separate company.
So I'll ask again, will we be paying rent? Being a building surveyor I am quite aware of how companies own things in a separate company but let us see if we pay any rent on it.
Why wouldn't SISU's investors want a return for putting in the money to get a stadium built? £1.8m charged in 12/13, I say charged, ML might say fleeced in other circumstances.
Say you own three companies. One company owns the other two. How richer or how poorer would you be if you let one company pay a rent or an interest to the other company?
Let's say one of your companies, that is using a property owned by another of your companies, but is losing millions every year. You could get rid of that company but before you do you could make sure the company you're getting rid of has a nice long lease where they have to pay the company you continue to own a large rent.
The fact is none of us know what the arrangement will be but the manner in which the question is avoided every time it is raised is certainly cause for concern. It's not difficult to say it will be owned by a different company in the same group but no rent will ever be charged. If there's nothing to hide then why not give a full answer?
If the group make an overall profit they could pay out interest on loans or dividends on shares.
If the group make an overall loss and they pay anything, they would have to refund what they pay out to cover the loss. Doesn't make any sense at all.
Well I can understand how it would be difficult to explain an angry audience that they would use the same group construction as had caused all the upset. Only difference that the old prop-co - being limited - owned a lease and not the stadium.
If the group make an overall profit they could pay out interest on loans or dividends on shares.
If the group make an overall loss and they pay anything, they would have to refund what they pay out to cover the loss. Doesn't make any sense at all.
Like Labovitch, you seem to live in a world where Sisu will own us forever more. What will happen when they sell? How long will it take/will they give it to make a profit?
You're right though, it doesn't make sense, although it would if for some reason you wanted to artificially inflate the debt of the club.
The Group has made a loss, interest has been paid out. What are these refunds you suggest?
Can you confirm this isn't a "threat"? It can read a bit dodgy.
I think I remember OSB said the interests were being accrued - not actually paid out?
But in any case the situation has now changed a bit as 'our bank' (ARVO) is now the sole creditor in the club (Otium). If ARVO is paid out interest that money is coming back from ARVO as either new loans or new equity. That doesn't make sense. Instead they can accrue the interests - or add it to the loans. When we get into profit they can take out money either as interest or as dividends whatever suits them.
When they sell, they sell the shares in the companies. As a whole package.
The debts gives them option. Before the administration the debt gave them protection.
It's not rocket science for the financially educated, but can be difficult to understand for most of us.
I think I remember OSB said the interests were being accrued - not actually paid out?
But in any case the situation has now changed a bit as 'our bank' (ARVO) is now the sole creditor in the club (Otium). If ARVO is paid out interest that money is coming back from ARVO as either new loans or new equity. That doesn't make sense. Instead they can accrue the interests - or add it to the loans. When we get into profit they can take out money either as interest or as dividends whatever suits them.
Say you own three companies. One company owns the other two. How richer or how poorer would you be if you let one company pay a rent or an interest to the other company?
I think I remember OSB said the interests were being accrued - not actually paid out?
But in any case the situation has now changed a bit as 'our bank' (ARVO) is now the sole creditor in the club (Otium). If ARVO is paid out interest that money is coming back from ARVO as either new loans or new equity. That doesn't make sense. Instead they can accrue the interests - or add it to the loans. When we get into profit they can take out money either as interest or as dividends whatever suits them.
But the club will not benefit, which ever way you want to spin who will pay what, you can bet your bottom dollar that we will be paying rather than receiving. Why do you seem intent on proving that Sisu will be giving us some sort of decent deal? We have only ever suffered at the hands of Sisu, what will change if we get to appear to own our stadium?
Your last line is gold, "when we get into profit". What decade do you think that is likely to be?
Well, I hope soon as only then will the club be sustainable. But of course it requires the club and stadium is owned by the same group.
You seem to hope it will never happen - or am I wrong?
No matter who owns the club - unless it's a sugar daddy - will seek some sort of return of their investments. They have so far injected £40m into the club, at some point they will either realize a loss and sell to someone else seeking a return from his investment or they will retrieve a return from either interests or dividends. The latter can only happen if the club is profitable.
And when do you see the club being profitable? bearing in mind where we play, where we are likely to play for the foreseeable future, what crowds are now and what they are likely to be if Sixfields continues, what the recent accounts showed us and the fact that we have been going backwards for more than 10 years and the fact that we have crap owners. Lastly, who else would take us on in our current predicament?
Well, I hope soon as only then will the club be sustainable. But of course it requires the club and stadium is owned by the same group.
You seem to hope it will never happen - or am I wrong?
I have already said I would like the club to be masters of our own destiny. I'll ignore the Grendel style of trying to put words in mouths again. I hope we would own our ground tomorrow, the problem is the only option is the Ricoh and for some reason our current owners seem to have forgotten how to make an offer for something, or even create a dialogue with the party they are hoping to buy from. The only logical route at present based on the fact that Sisu are not going to play ball in giving a fair price is to rent until such time the JR and subsequent appeals are finished. Unless of course we can squat at the Ricoh. Do you think that the club could be sustainable under a a more reasonable rental deal with access to revenues?
I don't think a rental agreement is ever going to happen unless the CCC and Higgs agree HOT to sell at the price found by two independent valuations.
And no, long term we will never be able to control our own destiny with a rent deal at the Ricoh. We could maybe get access to some F/B revenue but that wouldn't get us anywhere. We could really use the total ACL revenue of £13m - that would make us competitive in FFP terms.
I am off to bed now.
How many fans took part in that poll?
I don't think a rental agreement is ever going to happen unless the CCC and Higgs agree HOT to sell at the price found by two independent valuations.
And no, long term we will never be able to control our own destiny with a rent deal at the Ricoh. We could maybe get access to some F/B revenue but that wouldn't get us anywhere. We could really use the total ACL revenue of £13m - that would make us competitive in FFP terms.
I am off to bed now.
With everything you post on here there is zero evidence you are a fan anyway - you clearly have a love in with ACL though.
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