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Time for Plain Speaking (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter MichaelCCFC
  • Start date Mar 9, 2014
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #176
spider_ricoh said:
As you well know the CVA offered them a pittance, it would have been giving respectability to a truly illegitimate process if ACL had voted for the CVA. Before Timmy moans about "we want our ten points back", ACL should respond with "let's have our 43-years of rent back"
Click to expand...

How do you define a pittance?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #177
spider_ricoh said:
A perfectly valid lease, which they had no right to break. I will never forgive them for that - that was when they went too far. IMO a 30 point deduction wouldn't have been enough punishment for that; if the FL had a spine they'd have kicked us out of the league. It was truly disgusting to walk away from it.
Click to expand...

Would have you been happier then if joe Elliot and his lot had broken the lease and sisu not paid ACL for a few more years?
 

skybluefred

New Member
Aug 17, 2013
1,116
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #178
stupot07 said:
A KCIC poll

I would support a new ‘AFC Coventry’ club in 2014-15 but only if it played at the Ricoh - 16.9%
I would support a new ‘AFC Coventry’ club in 2014-15 as long as it played somewhere in Coventry -16.4%


So only 1/3 want it now/soon. And only 23% said they might support an AFC in the future but no is too soon...and that was only a might..so nowhere near the 80-90% really needed to make it work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

How many fans took part in that poll?
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
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0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #179
RoboCCFC90 said:
I only have stated what Sisu have stated, yet their actions have also supported their statements. I don't believe they will run back to the Ricoh with there tail between their legs looking for a Rent deal.

I have also said previously that we would be better off at the Ricoh but the chances of this happening are nil for many reasons.
Click to expand...
If, God forbid, SISU win the JR they may get the Ricoh and we'll be back there in a flash
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
15,434
8,900
313
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #180
Grendel said:
How do you define a pittance?
Click to expand...

The sum total of cells in Grendel's brain.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #181
spider_ricoh said:
If, God forbid, SISU win the JR they may get the Ricoh and we'll be back there in a flash
Click to expand...

It would be the best news ever.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #182
Grendel said:
Would have you been happier then if joe Elliot and his lot had broken the lease and sisu not paid ACL for a few more years?
Click to expand...

No - the sensible thing would have been for SISU to re-negotiate in good faith, rather than alienating the landlords (whose ground it rightfully is, not CCFC's) by going nuclear and unilaterally withholding the rent as a first move. More than anything, people find the tactics repulsive rather than the ultimate objectives.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #183
Grendel said:
It would be the best news ever.
Click to expand...

If that happens I will stop supporting Coventry City.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #184
Hobo said:
The sum total of cells in Grendel's brain.
Click to expand...

There are an awful lot then - well over a million.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #185
Grendel said:
How do you define a pittance?
Click to expand...

It was a few hundred £k - nothing like the 43-years worth of rent at costs that IMO CCFC still owe ACL - with compound interest you're looking at £65m+
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2013
15,434
8,900
313
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #186
Grendel said:
There are an awful lot then - well over a million.
Click to expand...

But not in use.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #187
spider_ricoh said:
If that happens I will stop supporting Coventry City.
Click to expand...

With everything you post on here there is zero evidence you are a fan anyway - you clearly have a love in with ACL though.
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
8,951
3,040
163
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #188
I hope Sisu build their ground I really do save me a fortune
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #189
spider_ricoh said:
No - the sensible thing would have been for SISU to re-negotiate in good faith, rather than alienating the landlords (whose ground it rightfully is, not CCFC's) by going nuclear and unilaterally withholding the rent as a first move. More than anything, people find the tactics repulsive rather than the ultimate objectives.
Click to expand...

Youve missed the point. When your mates at ACL were destroying the club first time round if sisu hadn't purchased the club then the lease would have been broken anyway.

Hey thinking about it if ACL hadn't been so greedy in the first place we'd never have heard of sisu. How do you feel now?
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2013
2,969
515
213
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #190
Grendel said:
The breaking of the lease is one of the few things they should be appluaded for.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that, it's a shame ACL didn't see it coming as if they had they may have reduced the rent sooner, and that may, (only may) have stopped all that has followed.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #191
Grendel said:
With everything you post on here there is zero evidence you are a fan anyway - you clearly have a love in with ACL though.
Click to expand...

What evidence do you want? CCFC merchandise in my house including shirts, scarves, hoodies, etc? The handfuls of used ticket stubs and matchday programmes I've kept? What fucking evidence can I offer on a web forum? For that matter, you appear to be some kind of WUM with no interest in right vs wrong only the blinkered interests of a football club owned by a Cayman Islands tax dodging hedge fund with no respect for its fans.

I'm not in love with ACL but we owe them and council in particular an enormous debt first of all for completing the Ricoh in the first place and then standing up to the bully boy tactics of your friends SISU.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #192
Rusty Trombone said:
I'd agree with that, it's a shame ACL didn't see it coming as if they had they may have reduced the rent sooner, and that may, (only may) have stopped all that has followed.
Click to expand...

Fact check - they offered a 66% rent reduction well before the admin orders kicked off. Eventually got down to 90% reduction before the points deduction. How much should they have cut the rent by?
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #193
Grendel said:
Youve missed the point. When your mates at ACL were destroying the club first time round if sisu hadn't purchased the club then the lease would have been broken anyway.

Hey thinking about it if ACL hadn't been so greedy in the first place we'd never have heard of sisu. How do you feel now?
Click to expand...

There's no question that the rent was perfectly fair - with a £30m investment and a rent of £1m a year, that's a payback period on commercial terms, you wouldn;t get any better than that from any private institution. To say that "councils should give football clubs better terms" is to support state subsidy of football teams in an age of austerity and is clearly ludicrous.
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2013
2,969
515
213
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #194
spider_ricoh said:
Fact check - they offered a 66% rent reduction well before the admin orders kicked off. Eventually got down to 90% reduction before the points deduction. How much should they have cut the rent by?
Click to expand...

To the offers they are making now.

If they had reduced it more sooner then it would have prevented a lot of the arguments we have on here, so that would be a great benefit on its own, but also because SISU would have lost a lot of the arguments they presented to the FL as excuses to leave.
 

covmark

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2010
7,483
4,473
213
hampshire
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #195
spider_ricoh said:
It was a few hundred £k - nothing like the 43-years worth of rent at costs that IMO CCFC still owe ACL - with compound interest you're looking at £65m+
Click to expand...

Why do you care so much for a stadium management company. Fans like you get the club they deserve.
Unbelievable!
 
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
8,951
3,040
163
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #196
Grendel said:
Youve missed the point. When your mates at ACL were destroying the club first time round if sisu hadn't purchased the club then the lease would have been broken anyway.

Hey thinking about it if ACL hadn't been so greedy in the first place we'd never have heard of sisu. How do you feel now?
Click to expand...
You are right the 30 million pounds per year they charged before SISU arrived was outrageous
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #197
covmark said:
Why do you care so much for a stadium management company. Fans like you get the club they deserve.
Unbelievable!
Click to expand...

I don't care about ACL as such but you just can't go round cheating people and ripping up leases, it's not on
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2013
13,083
2,831
113
Kiel, Germany
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #198
Grendel said:
Actually its the sad bastards who actually feel proud of a council that clearly see the club as nothing more than an entity to fleece money off that I feel sorry for.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that people who see the club as nothing more than an entity to fleece money off, were the ones who purchased it for that purpose. That's what hedge funds do.
 

spider_ricoh

New Member
Feb 22, 2014
834
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #199
Rusty Trombone said:
To the offers they are making now.

If they had reduced it more sooner then it would have prevented a lot of the arguments we have on here, so that would be a great benefit on its own, but also because SISU would have lost a lot of the arguments they presented to the FL as excuses to leave.
Click to expand...

Well SISU didn't give them a chance, they just stopped paying before any negotation took place - once that happened, the stage was set for a confrontation.

Your post suggests that ACL were in some way obliged to reduce the rent - they weren't at all, it's their stadium and they don't owe CCFC anything. SISU are not interested in compromise anyway, so why try meeting them half way?
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2013
8,360
5,079
313
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #200
spider_ricoh said:
There's no question that the rent was perfectly fair - with a £30m investment and a rent of £1m a year, that's a payback period on commercial terms, you wouldn;t get any better than that from any private institution. To say that "councils should give football clubs better terms" is to support state subsidy of football teams in an age of austerity and is clearly ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Your wasting your time spider.

He is blinded by hate for the council to the point that all logic goes out the window.

He clearly has no idea about how the laws which limit what a local authority can do. He also seems to have little regard for the democratic process that legitimises council policy decisions.
 

skybluefred

New Member
Aug 17, 2013
1,116
0
0
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #201
RoboCCFC90 said:
If I am honest I genuinely couldn't predict if CCC/ACL or Sisu won the JR, what I'd like to happen if ACL/CCC won is that Sisu sold the Club to someone who could bring the Club home, I don't know whether that is even a remote possibility though at this point.
Click to expand...

If there is anybody out there with enough money to buy a Football Club,can you give one reason why he would
chose CCFC over any number of Clubs who actually have some assets.

What do Coventry have to offer,A squad with a possible worth of 2m (that's being generous)-no ground,
very little support at present and an asking price of very many millions to cover sisu's investors ever increasing
losses.I believe Robinson sold out for £1 plus the debt to the Inland Revenue.That's about the current value.
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2013
8,360
5,079
313
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #202
RoboCCFC90 said:
Well I think accessing the matchday revenues that the Football Club generates is essential for the Club and would also be deemed as correct. Of course the club would have to pay for these.
Click to expand...

I note you've mentioned nothing about the freehold in that sentence.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2012
9,305
1,170
163
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #203
bigfatronssba said:
I note you've mentioned nothing about the freehold in that sentence.
Click to expand...

If it was me I wouldn't be interested in it I would want to the shares of ACL..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2013
8,360
5,079
313
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #204
Grendel said:
With everything you post on here there is zero evidence you are a fan anyway - you clearly have a love in with ACL though.
Click to expand...

Its comments like that which have most of this forum thinking your a tosser.
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2013
8,360
5,079
313
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #205
RoboCCFC90 said:
If it was me I wouldn't be interested in it I would want to the shares of ACL..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting at.

CCFC would benefit from the shares in ACL, the freehold would have very little benefit to the day to day running of the club.

Sisu would benefit from the freehold, the small profits generated by ACL would be of little use to sisu in getting their money back (unless they can find someone willing to pay £50m+ for a league 1 club).
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2013
2,969
515
213
Coventry
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #206
spider_ricoh said:
Well SISU didn't give them a chance, they just stopped paying before any negotation took place - once that happened, the stage was set for a confrontation.

Your post suggests that ACL were in some way obliged to reduce the rent - they weren't at all, it's their stadium and they don't owe CCFC anything. SISU are not interested in compromise anyway, so why try meeting them half way?
Click to expand...

The club were at the Ricoh for a long time whilst not paying the rent, I'm pretty sure the topic would have been raised, whilst they were talking/negotiating/having confrontation the rent could/should have been lowered.

ACL were too slow off the mark to realise what SISU were up to, as were most of us.

I'm not suggesting they were obliged to reduce the rent, but the fact that they have now reduced it by so much leaves them wide open to the accusation that they were overcharging before.

Saying they don't owe CCFC anything is probably technically true, but it's in their best interests to have them there, as has been proved by the attempts to get them back.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #207
bigfatronssba said:
Its comments like that which have most of this forum thinking your a tosser.
Click to expand...

That's fine with me as its fans like you that have led the club to where they are. You care about the council and its precious management company than you ever would about the club.

You even said you wouldnt care if the club were relegated.

You're a fucking disgrace.
 
Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2013
2,765
103
48
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #208
Grendel said:
On my phone with contact lenses which makes it hard to read to be honest.
Click to expand...

If you're struggling then I have heard that Fisher Price is doing a handset for adults.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
87,359
42,227
813
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #209
spider_ricoh said:
Well SISU didn't give them a chance, they just stopped paying before any negotation took place - once that happened, the stage was set for a confrontation.

Your post suggests that ACL were in some way obliged to reduce the rent - they weren't at all, it's their stadium and they don't owe CCFC anything. SISU are not interested in compromise anyway, so why try meeting them half way?
Click to expand...

C J Parker by any chance?
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2012
9,305
1,170
163
  • Mar 10, 2014
  • #210
bigfatronssba said:
That's what I was getting at.

CCFC would benefit from the shares in ACL, the freehold would have very little benefit to the day to day running of the club.

Sisu would benefit from the freehold, the small profits generated by ACL would be of little use to sisu in getting their money back (unless they can find someone willing to pay £50m+ for a league 1 club).
Click to expand...

Exactly. It would be the best way for Sisu to achieve their goals by purchasing the shares of ACL, which is why I have a feeling that they're playing the JR card and weaken ACL down, I'd rather they come out purchased the Higgs share and then purchase the Council share, the question is if Sisu purchased the Higgs Share of ACL would CCC be willing to sell their 50% share? Something tells me they wouldn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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