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tim speaks.....bullshit as usual (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter covkid69
  • Start date May 24, 2013
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lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #106
Deleted member 5849 said:
Can you tell me how this reconciles with this?
Click to expand...

"Untangling the truth from the part truths and the outright lies would take an age."
 
L

lifelongcityfan

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #107
Deleted member 5849 said:
Can you tell me how this reconciles with this?
Click to expand...

the first is to do with the shares, the second is to do with the rent
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #108
lifelongcityfan said:
the first is to do with the shares, the second is to do with the rent
Click to expand...

In which case, someone can correct James Smith the next time he uses that quote as evidence that SISU had the chance to buy half a share in ACl, and went back on it.

The quote is also in the context of a sale, not rent, so I'd like it clarified so we all know whether SISU have had the opportunity to buy, and have gone back on that, or have not had the opportunity to buy as no agreement has been reached.

I'm sure clarification will be given, and it appears they have never reached an agreement, which is fine.

But I'd like it clarified.
 
Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #109
Deleted member 5849 said:
Can you tell me how this reconciles with this?
Click to expand...
Heads of terms is defined here.

Wikipedia said:
Commercial Property Transaction

In a commercial property transaction in the UK, a heads of agreement is often known as the heads of terms (HOTS). The main purpose of the heads of terms is to identify and highlight the requirements of both the seller and the purchaser of the property. There are a number of advantages of using the heads of terms. For instance, by carrying this out, both parties will fully understand what they are subject to, and reduce or abolish any misunderstandings from either party.[2] The heads of terms normally contains the following information:

  • Details of the property seller
  • Details of the property purchaser
  • Address of the commercial property
  • Details of the commercial property
  • The purchase price both parties have agreed to
  • The payment information
  • Any special conditions
  • Transaction completion date
Click to expand...

As I understand it this is non binding and not a legal sale agreement. What Uncle Tim claimed as I read it was something different that would have been binding. He'll be able to show us that though to prove it.
 
L

lifelongcityfan

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #110
sisu had an option to buy the shares--- thry never pursued it
 

YamYam

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #111
Godiva said:
1: If Limited is liquidated after all creditors have been paid in full, and assuming FL will give the GS to Holdings...
Click to expand...

If Ltd is liquidated, the FL won't give the golden share to anybody; unless a new company has bought the assets and paid off the debts to the court's satisfaction.
 
L

lifelongcityfan

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #112
you seiously dont expect sisu to pay for anything - do you?
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #113
Deleted member 5849 said:
Can you tell me how this reconciles with this?
Click to expand...

Quite simply: there was an HoT which was the basis for a negotiation which Sisu never proceeded with. There was complete silence from June. At the end of their exclusivity period they popped up with a request to extend it, but as they had done nothing during the period no further exclusivity was granted, but they could have picked up the 'phone or sent an e-mail at any time to continue from the HoT. They just stopped talking to the Charity. There was no deal just the opening of a dialogue.
 
Last edited: May 24, 2013
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #114
PWKH said:
Quite simply: there was an HoT which was the basis for a negotiation which Sisu never proceeded with.
Click to expand...

So a basis for negotiation, as opposed to an agreement.

Ultimately worthless from either side other than a formal statement of intent, as committed neither to anything other than an attempt to drill down the negotiations?
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #115
Deleted member 5849 said:
So a basis for negotiation, as opposed to an agreement.

Ultimately worthless from either side other than a formal statement of intent, as committed neither to anything other than an attempt to drill down the negotiations?
Click to expand...

Yes. an agreed opening of negotiations, an agreement from which to work toward a deal.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #116
PWKH said:
Yes. an agreed opening of negotiations, an agreement from which to work toward a deal.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the clarification
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #117
Lets face it if you research SISU nothing adds up. They cannot be trusted full stop. Forget ACL they are just a scapegoat and only a landlord. They are buying time to try and distress ACL and pick up the Ricoh on the cheap. They have inflated the debt, muddied the structure all to put buyers off. Remember the debt is to themselves, they are making money from us while the club is loosing money. They have had the chance to sell, renegotiate rent so why else are they staying?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #118
The answers he has given are at best misrepresentation and at worst outright dishonesty. He is without shame.
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #119
PWKH said:
I have read Fisher's statements in the CT. Untangling the truth from the part truths and the outright lies would take an age. What I will say is that there was no agreement for Sisu/Seppala/CCFC to buy the Higgs shares. This knocks out quite a lot of what Fisher is claiming. Everything he says about "deals" has this lie as a crucial part of the argument he is putting.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what Fisher say is:

In an attempt to put both the club and ACL on a sound financial footing we had a series of meetings in 2012 aimed at resolving the financial difficulties facing both parties.
As part of this, we reached agreement with the council to buy out the ACL debt in return for a half share in the stadium business and extension of ACL’s lease to 125 years, which means it remain 100 per cent council-owned – we would just access the revenues, which is crucial.
This deal was documented, signed by all parties and then reneged on by the council. The council made the problem even worse by then using public funds, something that is now subject to the judicial review proceedings.
Click to expand...

He doesn't say specifically 'Higgs' shares ... and he refers to CCC, not the charity.

So you can both be right.
There were possibly no deal to buy Higgs shares.
Sisu possibly made a deal with CCC to buy half of ACL (the ccc shares) and an agreement was signed.

As I suspect the shareholders at ACL are communicating, I assume you can either confirm or deny if the deal Fisher speak about was actually agreed upon.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #120
Where is all this speculation going? The reality is agreements which haven't happened are of no consequences. what is valid is SISU's ability to build a new stadium while we ground share, because that is what they have stated they will do. However the maths do not add up. Yes they have an argument to do this for the long term good, but it would have made more sense to stay at the Ricoh while they build a new ground. why haven't they got the ground share sorted already?
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #121
As is pretty well known both shareholders have a veto over the sale by the other of their shares. Neither the Charity nor the Council have ever been asked by the other if they could sell their shares. I can say categorically that there never has been a deal done with Sisu/Seppala/Fisher/whoever for anyone to have either the Council's or the Charity's shares. It is a Fisherism to say anything to the contrary.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #122
PWKH said:
As is pretty well known both shareholders have a veto over the sale by the other of their shares.
Click to expand...

Would the charity be open to making an agreement with a SISU owned CCFC for the charity's share, assuming SISU owned the club as it came out of administration?

Would the council veto this deal if agreed with SISU?

The reason I ask is this was the inference I got from a radio interview you did a while back, that the charity would be open to a deal, but the council would probably veto; but so much has been said from either side since then my poor brain is confuzzled and might have mixed you up with someone completely different (entirely possible!), so while you're here clarification would be welcomed from me at least!
 
W

WFC

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #123
I believe if you can show a word is in common use you can apply to get it added to the dictionary at which point it becomes an official part of the English language.

As there have been so many incidents now which have prompted the use of the word 'Fisherism' can I suggest we apply to get it officially recognised as part of the English language.
 
P

PWKH

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #124
I cannot speak for the City Council. This possibility has not been discussed with the Council by the Charity. I cannot say what will happen in the future but I am sure that the Trustees would not consider any talks with CCFC or Seppala/Fisher until they have recovered money owed by Seppala and her Sisu Capital following the first "negotiation". As I understand it the County Court hearing won't be for some months yet.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #125
I have to say I find it hard to believe what PWKH is saying, yet at the same time I am not sure that Tim Fisher is telling the truth either, too many games played and too much antics, I dare not believe or trust either side in this predicament. Who is going to stand for being shown up in front of the fans, media, courts, adminstrator and potential investors? Certainly not Coventry City Council they have to much to lose.

ACL OUT, SISU OUT, COUNCIL OUT!! NO ONE TRUSTS YOU ANYMORE!!
 
G

Godiva

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #126
PWKH said:
As is pretty well known both shareholders have a veto over the sale by the other of their shares. Neither the Charity nor the Council have ever been asked by the other if they could sell their shares. I can say categorically that there never has been a deal done with Sisu/Seppala/Fisher/whoever for anyone to have either the Council's or the Charity's shares. It is a Fisherism to say anything to the contrary.
Click to expand...

Deleted member 5849 said:
Would the charity be open to making an agreement with a SISU owned CCFC for the charity's share, assuming SISU owned the club as it came out of administration?

Would the council veto this deal if agreed with SISU?

The reason I ask is this was the inference I got from a radio interview you did a while back, that the charity would be open to a deal, but the council would probably veto; but so much has been said from either side since then my poor brain is confuzzled and might have mixed you up with someone completely different (entirely possible!), so while you're here clarification would be welcomed from me at least!
Click to expand...


Yes, so much has been said by either side that it is impossible to grasp it all.

PWKH - if you were invited to a face-to-face debate with Tim Fisher, organised and moderated by the Trust, would you accept?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #127
PWKH said:
I cannot speak for the City Council. This possibility has not been discussed with the Council by the Charity.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you discuss this possibility before entering into any kind of negotiation? Surely even a heads of terms on which to proceed would have wasted the charity's time as much as anyone's, if any deal coming out of that start point would be vetoed anyway?

In hindsight, do you regret not asking the council about this possibility?
 
Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2013
P

PWKH

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #128
No. I tell the truth. There would be no point, I am afraid. I look forward to the various Court cases that seem to be in train and for the truth to come out because it does eventually.
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #129
PWKH said:
No. I tell the truth. There would be no point, I am afraid. I look forward to the various Court cases that seem to be in train and for the truth to come out because it does eventually.
Click to expand...

Respect for coming on here, into the Helmand Province of forums to state your point. Like you say, I wouldn't bother if I was bullshitting.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 24, 2013
  • #130
hill83 said:
Respect for coming on here, into the Helmand Province of forums to state your point. Like you say, I wouldn't bother if I was bullshitting.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I'd also like to add a thankyou to PWKH for taking the trouble to clarify a few things.

I appreciate with coming court cases this restricts what can be said as much as anything, but a clarification of things from his perspective is welcomed by me at least.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #131
PWKH said:
No. I tell the truth. There would be no point, I am afraid. I look forward to the various Court cases that seem to be in train and for the truth to come out because it does eventually.
Click to expand...

get your balloons out for the lads
 

TheRoyalScam

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #132
WFC said:
I believe if you can show a word is in common use you can apply to get it added to the dictionary at which point it becomes an official part of the English language.

As there have been so many incidents now which have prompted the use of the word 'Fisherism' can I suggest we apply to get it officially recognised as part of the English language.
Click to expand...

I think it would be most apt:

Fisherism (noun) a statement or phrase that distorts the reality of a given situation or fact - a piece of misinformation intending to confuse or obfuscate - a lie, or at best a 'half-truth'

e.g. His answers to the questions were merely Fisherisms, so were taken with the usual pinch of salt.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #133
Yeah respect where it's due PWKH doesn't have to come on here and post, and I applaud him for doing so. I also can't see why he would lie about things as it would eventually come out and he'd lose credibility in the eyes of many on here. Now as I see it Uncle Tim isn't so bothered about the odd inaccuracy and just says any old thing.
 

bigfatronssba

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #134
James Smith said:
Yeah respect where it's due PWKH doesn't have to come on here and post, and I applaud him for doing so. I also can't see why he would lie about things as it would eventually come out and he'd lose credibility in the eyes of many on here. Now as I see it Uncle Tim isn't so bothered about the odd inaccuracy and just says any old thing.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Fisher has form for this sort of thing. He's lied once too often, therefore everything he says must be treated with suspicion.
 

TheRoyalScam

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #135
Here's a good example of a Fisherism from today's CT:

'...we paid in excess of £800,000 for the use of the Ricoh...'

No Tim, that's a lie and you know it - £500,000 came from the escrow account and that's not your money.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #136
WFC said:
I believe if you can show a word is in common use you can apply to get it added to the dictionary at which point it becomes an official part of the English language.

As there have been so many incidents now which have prompted the use of the word 'Fisherism' can I suggest we apply to get it officially recognised as part of the English language.
Click to expand...

Only if we can also have NW's confuzzled.
 
W

WFC

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #137
TheRoyalScam said:
I think it would be most apt:

Fisherism (noun) a statement or phrase that distorts the reality of a given situation or fact - a piece of misinformation intending to confuse or obfuscate - a lie, or at best a 'half-truth'

e.g. His answers to the questions were merely Fisherisms, so were taken with the usual pinch of salt.
Click to expand...

:claping hands: very good. Just checked with the OED, can't use evidence from newspapers or journals but if you can get the word printed in a book somewhere you can submit it as evidence for the word to be included in the OED. Would be so tempting to get someone to do it wouldn't it
 
R

rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #138
One question not asked was this proposal to play elsewhere, what if the request to play somewhere else is turned down by Walsall or whoever else we ask or the league, what happens then ?
 

Baginton

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #139
Walsall would probably bite our hand off for the extra dosh, I'm sure I heard they are not doing too well financially.
 

Baginton

New Member
  • May 24, 2013
  • #140
...and with the shitey crowds parking shouldnt be a problem

:claping hands:
 
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