"Thorn was a good scout" (1 Viewer)

Jimmy Hill's Chin · Oct 24, 2012

Hopefully this myth has now been debunked with the dross he purchased in the close season. Fleck (fitness issues aside) looks like a footballer. The rest look like they wouldn't grace the Memorial Park on a Sunday morning. If Thorn was such a good scout how come so many of his recent signings have been so ineffective? In my opinion Thorn was the worst manager this club has had in our entire history. I'm sure he is a nice guy but so are Rowan Williams and Pope Benedict but I wouldn't want them managing my football club. Sadly I fear Thorn's malign influence will persist for some time yet.

sw88 · Oct 24, 2012

On the other hand, there is no alternative explainationwjy Waggott and Fisher kept him on for so long! Surely they wanted to utilise his scouting ability?

Or maybe AT got wind his job was gonna end so he thought he'd bring in 9 or 10 shite players as a form of revenge?

Sick Boy · Oct 24, 2012

Who exactly are the unearthed gems that Thorn spotted from nowhere?

lordsummerisle · Oct 24, 2012

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

skybluegod · Oct 24, 2012

im sorry but who care about thorn anymore he's gone and not coming back.

skybluesam66 · Oct 24, 2012

thorn possibly brought in gunnar/fox/dann/best/westwood - beyond that you are struggling

against that I give you last night;s team

I am sure i could be as good a scout as him

Thorns idea of a pacy player is anybody who could run faster than him

lordsummerisle · Oct 24, 2012

skybluesam66 said:
thorn possibly brought in gunnar/fox/dann/best/westwood - beyond that you are struggling

against that I give you last night;s team

I am sure i could be as good a scout as him

Thorns idea of a pacy player is anybody who could run faster than him

Didn't bring in Dann, Fox or Best.

CovisGod · Oct 24, 2012

Didn't we have first option on Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson thanks to Thorn ?

Again, may be a myth

Nick · Oct 24, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
Didn't bring in Dann, Fox or Best.

Nor Gunnar, he was recommended by a Icelandic Teammate.

Also, wasn't Westwood in Team of the Season for League One when we bought him?

SkyBlueRuffian · Oct 24, 2012

Dowie bought Dann. Fox and Best, Thorn bought shite.

ricohman · Oct 24, 2012

skybluesam66 said:
thorn possibly brought in gunnar/fox/dann/best/westwood - beyond that you are struggling

against that I give you last night;s team

I am sure i could be as good a scout as him

Thorns idea of a pacy player is anybody who could run faster than him

Hé didnt bring in any of those players unless he was out scout 3/4 years ago. Could maybe credit him with Léon best

Sick Boy · Oct 24, 2012

ricohman said:
Hé didnt bring in any of those players unless he was out scout 3/4 years ago. Could maybe credit him with Léon best

How can we credit him for Leon Best? He was at the club before SISU even came in.

Dann & Fox were both here before Thorn. Gunnarsson was recommended by someone else.

He really is an excellent scout.

ashbyjan · Oct 24, 2012

Facts
Thorn joined Cov as scout on 5/4/08.
Best joined in 2007, Fox and Dann joined in Jan 2008 - none of these were brought to club by Thorn
Westwood, Gunnarson, Keogh, Cranie, Jutkiewicz all brought to club during Thorns time - no evidence whether he actually scouted them but he was chief scout at the time so you would expect him to have run the rule over them at some point.

Is he a decent scout? Probably, based on players above. Is he a good manager? No - for a myriad of reasons discussed to death on here.
Are all our current ills his fault? Of course not but as we fans always seem obsessed with finding a scape goat and currently that is Thorn, Clarke and Baker. Sure by end of November it will be another trio unless things change dramatically and we actually win a game - bet Arlesey are crapping themselves.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 24, 2012

Quite frankly, this vilification of Andy Thorn is pathetic, dull, boring & pointless (a bit like Dickie Shaws spell in charge)

Some of you thorn bashers are starting to sound like school-girl bullies.

I've followed City since the 1970's and heres some breaking news for you.....We've always signed more than our fair share of shit......

...I could give you a list off the top of my head.....but I'd miss Xmas.

Get a grip. Thorn has gone. Move on.

Nick · Oct 24, 2012

I dont think many in this thread are bashing him, just stating that he didn't sign certain players...

dadgad · Oct 24, 2012

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Quite frankly, this vilification of Andy Thorn is pathetic, dull, boring & pointless (a bit like Dickie Shaws spell in charge)

Some of you thorn bashers are starting to sound like school-girl bullies.

I've followed City since the 1970's and heres some breaking news for you.....We've always signed more than our fair share of shit......

...I could give you a list off the top of my head.....but I'd miss Xmas.

Get a grip. Thorn has gone. Move on.

Well said and completely true.
However, thick fans always need a scapegoat.
Easy targets arrange life in a simpler way......never too taxing........but a million miles away from the truth.

ashbyjan · Oct 24, 2012

Roll call for next months pointless and unmerited scapegoat status - my vote goes to Moussa as he is moving up the scapegoat pecking order, Christie as people realise hes no better than Clarke and Murphy as he has had a couple of really good games but still gets stick so one small error and he will be in the barrel.

dadgad · Oct 24, 2012

ASHBYJAN - that's a positive idea
Surely you're forgetting Robins. He's fucking useless don't you know?

kevinleftpeg · Oct 24, 2012

we have signed our fair share of shite, especially in the last 4 years! Results do not lie

ashbyjan · Oct 24, 2012

Worst/Best manager we've had since moving to the Ricoh - we have a good/crap bunch of players (delete as suits the current argument) and he can / cannot motivate them (delete as before). It is / isn't all his fault but that of Richardson/Robinson/McGinnity/Hover/SISU/Ranson/Hoffman/Dulieu/Igwe/Seppala/Fisher/Waggott/Ricoh Arena/fans/stewards/pie suppliers/Carling (delete etc)

Nick · Oct 24, 2012

dadgad said:
Well said and completely true.
However, thick fans always need a scapegoat.
Easy targets arrange life in a simpler way......never too taxing........but a million miles away from the truth.

True, however would it make somebody thicker and further away from the truth to keep suggesting that somebody signed players BEFORE he was even at the club?

Grendel · Oct 24, 2012

Nick said:
True, however would it make somebody thicker and further away from the truth to keep suggesting that somebody signed players BEFORE he was even at the club?

Or indeed to say Sir Alex Ferguson has now adopted his tactics and is ahead of his time. Hilarious stuff.

dongonzalos · Oct 24, 2012

So is Andy Thorn the worse manager going. Also are people saying other than Fleck, all the players in the squad are rubbish and pretty much a relegation squad?

Grendel · Oct 24, 2012

dongonzalos said:
So is Andy Thorn the worse manager going. Also are people saying other than Fleck, all the players in the squad are rubbish and pretty much a relegation squad?

To be honest I've singled out Fleck as the best of the signings but he is also well below League one standard.

You should ask yourself how many of our players would top League One clubs want. The goalkeeping is poor so Murphy would get a club. Mcgoldrick as well. That is where the interest would end.

dadgad · Oct 24, 2012

Nick said:
True, however would it make somebody thicker and further away from the truth to keep suggesting that somebody signed players BEFORE he was even at the club?

Let it go ffs. Thorn is now part of our ignominious recent history. He wasn't a very good manager but who employed him?
The same people who undermined him by tying his hands behind his back and the same people who eventually got rid when it was far too late and by so doing have given Robins the impossibility of turning this club around.
Direct your frustrations at the decision makers not the hod carriers.

lordsummerisle · Oct 24, 2012

dadgad said:
Let it go ffs. Thorn is now part of our ignominious recent history. He wasn't a very good manager but who employed him?
The same people who undermined him by tying his hands behind his back and the same people who eventually got rid when it was far too late and by so doing have given Robins the impossibility of turning this club around.
Direct your frustrations at the decision makers not the hod carriers.

If anybody is having trouble letting go, it would be you.

stupot07 · Oct 24, 2012

dongonzalos said:
So is Andy Thorn the worse manager going. Also are people saying other than Fleck, all the players in the squad are rubbish and pretty much a relegation squad?

Fleck is best of a bad bunch, but to be honest apart from set pieces I don't see what he brings to the team or what is best position is.

dongonzalos · Oct 24, 2012

He must have been one hell of an over performer in his first 4 games.

Despite been a shit manager with a shit squad.

He won in the cup.

Then drew his first match away from home against a team who have gone on to beat Doncaster. Beat Scunthorpe 4 nil away from home. Beat Brentford 3 - 1 away from home. Beat Colchester 3 - 1 and 4-0
and have beaten Shrewsbury 3-1 away from home.

He then got this shit squad to match the current undefeated favourites for the league Sheff utd.

He then got this shit squad to take bury apart for 45 minutes.

He then showed what you state is his true colours and we ended drawing with Bury.

He then got sacked.

Now any decent player he signed in the past he probably did not sign. He just took the recommendation of anyone else. Yet any shit player is his own choice.

All sounds quite a balanced view. I agree shit manager, shit scout. Who was given more than enough time this season.

Grendel · Oct 24, 2012

dongonzalos said:
He must have been one hell of an over performer in his first 4 games.

Despite been a shit manager with a shit squad.

He won in the cup.

Then drew his first match away from home against a team who have gone on to beat Doncaster. Beat Sc-unithorpe 4 nil away from home. Beat Brentford 3 - 1 away from home. Beat Colchester 3 - 1 and 4-0
and have beaten Shrewsbury 3-1 away from home.

He then got this shit squad to match the current undefeated favourites for the league Sheff utd.

He then got this shit squad to take bury apart for 45 minutes.

He then showed what you state is his true colours and we ended drawing with Bury.

He then got sacked.

Now any decent player he signed in the past he probably did not sign. He just took the recommendation of anyone else. Yet any shit player is his own choice.

All sounds quite a balanced view. I agree shit manager, shit scout. Who was given more than enough time this season.

He averaged a point a game. I would say that was par for the course for him and this squad. Changing the manager and some overhaul in January may save us from the drop. It will be tough though.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 24, 2012

No doubt if Thorn had stayed and we were languishing around 14th-18th Grendel would have been the first person saying we should be higher in the table but because he isn't in charge survival will be a success.

Grendel · Oct 24, 2012

CCFC said:
No doubt if Thorn had stayed and we were languishing around 14th-18th Grendel would have been the first person saying we should be higher in the table but because he isn't in charge survival will be a success.

We wouldn't have been. Last season if we had survived many people on here would have been expecting a mention in the New Years Honours list.

Now the only reason this gets dragged up is because of factually inaccurate guff about players scouted before he started, that Sir Alex copied his tactics (lesson there, never look at the phone while driving) and the constant refusal by one poster in particular to apportion any blame to him for the desperate mess we are now in.

He should have been sacked last September then we may not even be in this wretched league.

dongonzalos · Oct 24, 2012

CCFC said:
No doubt if Thorn had stayed and we were languishing around 14th-18th Grendel would have been the first person saying we should be higher in the table but because he isn't in charge survival will be a success.

I know it is so blatant its funny.
He spent the whole summer telling us this squad should be top six minimum.
That was before we signed Goldie and MR's 4 signings.

I am sure he kept emphasing how bad and how small all the other squads in this division are.

Somehow AT has signed 9 players that have made us worse.
One of his other targets is then signed when he is gone.
Then MR signs 4 players,
Now we will be lucky to avoid relegation.
Something doesnt add up.

Grendel · Oct 24, 2012

dongonzalos said:
I know it is so blatant its funny.
He spent the whole summer telling us this squad should be top six minimum.
That was before we signed Goldie and MR's 4 signings.

I am sure he kept emphasing how bad and how small all the other squads in this division are.

Somehow AT has signed 9 players that have made us worse.
One of his other targets is then signed when he is gone.
Then MR signs 4 players,
Now we will be lucky to avoid relegation.
Something doesnt add up.

Even I thought having signed 9 players we couldn't go wrong. But yes I gave too much credit to thorn he couldn't even get that right.

Just out of interest Don you've seen them play how many of them do you think other clubs in this league would want?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 24, 2012

Grendel said:
Even I thought having signed 9 players we couldn't go wrong. But yes I gave too much credit to thorn he couldn't even get that right.

Just out of interest Don you've seen them play how many of them do you think other clubs in this league would want?

I think the majority of them would get other league 1 clubs i.e Elliott, Jennings, Barton etc. clubs I concede that out of the 9 permanent signings on the showing so far I would say Fleck would be the only one that would make it into a decent top half league 1 team

dongonzalos · Oct 24, 2012

Murphy, Cameron, Baker, Cody, Clarke, Christie, Fleck, Goldie, Barton, Kilbane. Bailey Wood. Thomas.

I think without all the dicking around, bonus rows, sacking the manager that signed them or gave them their chance.

I think without all that these lot would be doing a lot better.

I like Robins, however it seems he will need his own lot to achieve.

That is a shame as all the candidates said they could do it with this team with minor tweeks.

My biggest gripe is with TF and wag.

Don't let AT sign 9 players then only back him for 4 games.

If you are going to do that it should have been robins in the summer to get his own players.

Also if you are going to sack a manager identify your target first and act quickly.

We lost 4/5 games over their bad decisions.

Now Robins is stuck with players, I believe can achieve a lot more, but don't seem to want to play for him.

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