Thorn Out (1 Viewer)

WestEndAgro · Oct 2, 2011

Not being disruptive or negative, but managers need to motivate and inspire, after Andy's post match interview yesterday I'm not sure he can do either ?
How much longer will he get or want for that matter ?

I'm not blaming Andy for results, because we clearly have a poor side, but he sounded a beaten man.

Dead Man Walking ?

Otis · Oct 2, 2011

Think any City manager would be a beaten man. He must have been screaming to the board until he is blue in the face that he needs new players in desperately.

Not so much a dead man walking as a sitting duck.

Mr T - Sukka! · Oct 2, 2011

Ha ha! We could bring in one of these Ian Dowie, Chris Coleman, Micky Adams, Adiy Boothroyd.

wingy · Oct 2, 2011

Mr T - Sukka! said:
Ha ha! We could bring in one of these Ian Dowie, Chris Coleman, Micky Adams, Adiy Boothroyd.

WE'Re probably still paying all of them off ,which is why AT is safe,having said that ,what have all those changes actually achieved

oldskyblue58 · Oct 2, 2011

have heard McLaren is looking for work

Doesnt matter who they were to bring in they would have the same issues with very limited resources

TheParsonsHose · Oct 2, 2011

WestEndAgro said:
Not being disruptive or negative, but managers need to motivate and inspire, after Andy's post match interview yesterday I'm not sure he can do either ?
How much longer will he get or want for that matter ?

I'm not blaming Andy for results, because we clearly have a poor side, but he sounded a beaten man.

Dead Man Walking ?

There is nothing wrong with our manager.

WestEndAgro · Oct 2, 2011

TheParsonsHose said:
There is nothing wrong with our manager.

I agree, but did you hear the interview

He sounded beaten, defeated and out of ideas. This was my point, how can he motivate the team where he himself appears helpless?

rob9872 · Oct 2, 2011

Not sure he's great but tbf Ferguson couldn't win with this squad or resources

sw88 · Oct 2, 2011

Mr T - Sukka! said:
Ha ha! We could bring in one of these Ian Dowie, Chris Coleman, Micky Adams, Adiy Boothroyd.

Couldnt bring in Coleman, we'd have to pay for him!

Monkeyface · Oct 2, 2011

It's going to be interesting to see how the board handle things over the next few months.

Normally you'd expect a manager of a team in our position to be feeling the heat by now, but I think most people in and around the club know the reason we are where we are, is not down to poor management. That's not to say Thorn is a brilliant manager, without the right backing we can't make that judgement, but he can't be blamed for things as they are.

So what do the board do? Carry on heading towards L1 and all the problems that brings, or sack a manager that the fans have warmed too and hope they can get somebody in to keep us up?

Interesting times ahead.

TheParsonsHose · Oct 2, 2011

WestEndAgro said:
I agree, but did you hear the interview

He sounded beaten, defeated and out of ideas. This was my point, how can he motivate the team where he himself appears helpless?

No I am in spain for a week. I would sound beaten if my company didn't support me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · Oct 2, 2011

I think Andy Thorn's job is safe in the current situation. I think its a good thing we have a manager that the fans understand is not responsible for the unique way CCFC is being funded. I think he's making a good a fist of it as anyone could do with the resources he has. I'm behind him.

I just hope he doesn't resign.

smileycov · Oct 2, 2011

I have decided now that SISU want us to go down. then they can sell all the players, make a bit of money and still take a poor offer for us and walk away. Right now they would get investigated by the F.A. if they did that, they have to be seen to be trying. The only offer they have now, is £1 and walk...no other reason for thier behaviour is there? OSB, you understand what i mean don't you?

Ernie Machin · Oct 2, 2011

I truly feel sorry for Andy, he's really trying all he can to make us competitive, but he hasn't been given anything to work with. I really don't know how much more he can take, but we must all remember that he isn't the problem here. SISU and the lack of a squad is.

Macca · Oct 2, 2011

Forget the ownership issues and ask whether AT is getting the most out of that team. I'm not sure he is. However it is early days still

Grendel · Oct 2, 2011

Mr T - Sukka! said:
Ha ha! We could bring in one of these Ian Dowie, Chris Coleman, Micky Adams, Adiy Boothroyd.

And that is the problem. All Sisu appontments have been rubbish - Thorn included.

Grendel · Oct 2, 2011

Thorn is a Disaster

My honest view is that Thorn is a terrible appointment. What perplexes me is that most fans seem OK with Sisu appointing him. Sisu, rightly, are rubbished for lack of investment, interest etc. but not for appointing Thorn. He was the cheap option as all Sisu options are but apparantly the SISU appointment of Torn is a masterstroke.

He knows full well that no other club would even contemplate giving him the manager job so will toe the line safe in the knowledge his job is secure. Face it any manager with dignity or self belief would walk. Thorn can't as no one else would employ him. I know supporters from othe Championship Clubs who laugh when they see him as manager.

He and Harrison are Laurel and Hardy a pair of old fashioned comedians who will laugh all the way to the bank - still getting paid while the club sinks without trace - they can blame lack of investment - and it's true SISU never invested in decent players and certainly not in a decent manager.

Macca · Oct 2, 2011

honest and brave post. I think if we had owners that we were happy with and they appointed Thorn we would be asking serious questions. Nothing whatsoever against Thorn the man. However he is in a position where there is so much distraction with the animosity towards SISU that he is seemingly bullet proof with the fans

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

Thorn is doing a decent job with limited resources - but we aren't the only club struggling with investment: Leeds, Everton and Forest are all clubs aiming to find a sustainable level.

Spending money we didn't have caused the financial problems in the first place. Spending money we don't have again will make matters worse.

Macca · Oct 2, 2011

my question is this. A lot of posters have said that we are only 1 or 2 players from being a mid table side. It follows that we must have some decent players already. Therefore surely with the position we are in we are underforming and so the manager must be culpable to a certain degree

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

Macca said:
my question is this. A lot of posters have said that we are only 1 or 2 players from being a mid table side. It follows that we must have some decent players already. Therefore surely with the position we are in we are underforming and so the manager must be culpable to a certain degree

Unless those posters are morons.......

Macca · Oct 2, 2011

possibly but I've heard it said enough times. I guess what I'm saying is if we are never going to blame the manager for anything then whats the point in having one!

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

Macca said:
possibly but I've heard it said enough times. I guess what I'm saying is if we are never going to blame the manager for anything then whats the point in having one!

A lot of clubs chop and change their manager.

In the past, we have appointed Coleman, Dowie, Adams, Reid and Boothroyd - all of whom can claim to have had a decent CV. In fact, most of them have had clubs promoted from the Championship.

Thorn is doing the best he can.

Should we lose Thorn, who in all seriousness will want the job?

More importantly, we can't afford to sack another manager

"SISU In!"

Sky Blue Sheepy · Oct 2, 2011

He got plaudits for changing the style of football we played. Problem is without a good forward to pull defenders away, it takes fluke/skill to play a killer ball forward. Unfortunately Thorns response is to play crab/backwards passing or long ball which is starting to grate me. As for no-one else wanting Thorn, he was/is a scout with no managerial experience, why would they want him as a manager. Under the circumstances he's doing his best and I'll back him until I have good reason not to.

rob9872 · Oct 2, 2011

Kind of agree Macca but the two players we need are the elusive 20 goal a season striker and creative midfielder that every other club desires and tbh the right two players in those positions could propel many teams from the lower reaches into contenders. Unfortunately we were spoilt last season by seeing what a real striker in MK can achieve and oh how we miss him. The truth was then that if we could add to last seasons squad we would have all been ok, but the budget was ripped the out of contract players left and we've been forced to blood players who are not yet ready and expecting miracles.

YEsterday was poor. Probably the poorest of all and you have to fear for the remainder of the season because I struggle to think of a side who wouldn't have beaten us on that showing. However I remain undecided on Thorn because with those resources he doesn't have a prayer. I also wonder who the hell would accept this challenge that is a credible alternative. Furthermore, we also lose him entirely and his scouting knowledge that could add value at a later date because I'm sure he wouldn't go back to being chief scout now that he has had a taste and his black book could be enough to clear a chunk debt based on some of his previous finds.

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

Sky Blue Sheepy said:
He got plaudits for changing the style of football we played. Problem is without a good forward to pull defenders away, it takes fluke/skill to play a killer ball forward. Unfortunately Thorns response is to play crab/backwards passing or long ball which is starting to grate me. As for no-one else wanting Thorn, he was/is a scout with no managerial experience, why would they want him as a manager. Under the circumstances he's doing his best and I'll back him until I have good reason not to.

Very astute point.

Which just goes to show how dim fans are. Style of football takes precedence over results.

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
Kind of agree Macca but the two players we need are the elusive 20 goal a season striker and creative midfielder that every other club desires and tbh the right two players in those positions could propel many teams from the lower reaches into contenders. Unfortunately we were spoilt last season by seeing what a real striker in MK can achieve and oh how we miss him. The truth was then that if we could add to last seasons squad we would have all been ok, but the budget was ripped the out of contract players left and we've been forced to blood players who are not yet ready and expecting miracles.

YEsterday was poor. Probably the poorest of all and you have to fear for the remainder of the season because I struggle to think of a side who wouldn't have beaten us on that showing. However I remain undecided on Thorn because with those resources he doesn't have a prayer. I also wonder who the hell would accept this challenge that is a credible alternative. Furthermore, we also lose him entirely and his scouting knowledge that could add value at a later date because I'm sure he wouldn't go back to being chief scout now that he has had a taste and his black book could be enough to clear a chunk debt based on some of his previous finds.

For most of last season, Marlon King was an abject failure. He failed to score goals, disrupted a team that was doing well under Boothroyd and damaged the reputation of the Sky Blues.

King then reneged on a contract offer, which Thorn said he handed to him personally.

Very few clubs have a 20-goal-a-season striker. What we need is a team, rather than reliance on an individual

Grendel · Oct 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
Kind of agree Macca but the two players we need are the elusive 20 goal a season striker and creative midfielder that every other club desires and tbh the right two players in those positions could propel many teams from the lower reaches into contenders. Unfortunately we were spoilt last season by seeing what a real striker in MK can achieve and oh how we miss him. The truth was then that if we could add to last seasons squad we would have all been ok, but the budget was ripped the out of contract players left and we've been forced to blood players who are not yet ready and expecting miracles.

YEsterday was poor. Probably the poorest of all and you have to fear for the remainder of the season because I struggle to think of a side who wouldn't have beaten us on that showing. However I remain undecided on Thorn because with those resources he doesn't have a prayer. I also wonder who the hell would accept this challenge that is a credible alternative. Furthermore, we also lose him entirely and his scouting knowledge that could add value at a later date because I'm sure he wouldn't go back to being chief scout now that he has had a taste and his black book could be enough to clear a chunk debt based on some of his previous finds.

I know many people quote the scouting ability of Thorn - who has he actually bought into the club with his scouting ability?

rob9872 · Oct 2, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
Very astute point.

Which just goes to show how dim fans are. Style of football takes precedence over results.

I think that's unfair. We were getting neither results or performance then (a bit like now) and I think the refreshing part was seeing players expressing themselves and having a go. It is the entertainment industry despite being also often quoted as a results industry. Unless we're challenging then I think there is room for a balance or crowds would dwindle even further. Despite the false dawns that also haven't happened and being hoodwinked by the board, I don't think I could have suffered another season under Boothroyd and for the first in a long long time I was (as I am again now) considering not renewing.

rob9872 · Oct 2, 2011

kduffy said:
I know many people quote the scouting ability of Thorn - who has he actually bought into the club with his scouting ability?

Dann and Fox are the obvious two but I believe that Juke, Best and also those others on our radar when cheap like Henderson and Carroll were also his recommendations. But even one gem in ten would be a decent return with finances.

rob9872 · Oct 2, 2011

TommyAtkins said:
For most of last season, Marlon King was an abject failure. He failed to score goals, disrupted a team that was doing well under Boothroyd and damaged the reputation of the Sky Blues.

King then reneged on a contract offer, which Thorn said he handed to him personally.

Very few clubs have a 20-goal-a-season striker. What we need is a team, rather than reliance on an individual

That's your opinion. You are entitled to it but I firmly disagree. He was by far the best striker since relegation and his touch and movement in addition to goals were outstanding. Disruptive yes, but with a full pre-season I'm certain 20+ goals would have been a minimum. He pulled defenders out of position and made Juke look twice the player he has so far this season too.

TommyAtkins · Oct 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
I think that's unfair. We were getting neither results or performance then (a bit like now) and I think the refreshing part was seeing players expressing themselves and having a go. It is the entertainment industry despite being also often quoted as a results industry. Unless we're challenging then I think there is room for a balance or crowds would dwindle even further. Despite the false dawns that also haven't happened and being hoodwinked by the board, I don't think I could have suffered another season under Boothroyd and for the first in a long long time I was (as I am again now) considering not renewing.

Fans can't have it both ways: too many fans demand results and entertainment. And again, the Board haven't really hoodwinked anyone. Ranson said it time and time again: there is a breakeven attendance figure and we have consistently failed to achieve that breakeven figure. It has been blatantly evident that we couldn't continue like that. Consequently, the club has continued to lose money. Therefore, the sound business reaction is to cut costs. SISU may have misled fans about budgets (but even budgets change) but what club doesn't mislead fans?

Arsenal reassured fans that Nasri and Fabregas wouldn't leave - and then sold them after most season tickets had been sold. We sold McSheffrey only a couple of games into the season under the last regime. Fans shouldn't be so naive.

johnniericoh · Oct 3, 2011

You have all heard of body language but on Saturday post match comment by AT reeked of voice language ie the words coming out bordered on despair and hopelessness.

I like AT, his style of play etc BUT despite his honesty and refeshing outlook he appears a beaten man at the moment - it's a bloody shame.

PUSB

rob9872 · Oct 3, 2011

There is a huge difference between cutting budgets and withdrawing them entirely. We have to cut our cloth accordingly but that doesn't mean sell anything that moves because there is only one way we will head which will further damage finances. As for the magical breakeven figure that was always nonsense and based on unachievable numbers.

TommyAtkins · Oct 3, 2011

"As for the magical breakeven figure that was always nonsense and based on unachievable numbers."

Clearly, SISU haven't withdrawn funds entirely because the club is still being funded (just). With regards to unachievable numbers, then we should have cut costs faster and sooner.

We have been living beyond our means for years. It was and is unsustainable.

All that is happening is that Coventry City is returning to the old Third Division, from where we came. Perhaps that is our true, sustainable level and the years 67-01, will just be seen as an aberration.

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