This Academy bullshit ! (3 Viewers)

rupert_bear · Aug 14, 2016

Was at the Wigan Athletic academy today which I believe is also a cat 2 like ours, recent ex premiership so l took interest in what they had we couldn't have at the Alan Higgs centre. They had three buildings 2 smallish porta cabin type ones and one main building about the width of 2 pitches square, where the changing rooms are and some indoor facilities, there were 2 full size pitches and 3 or 4 junior pitches of various sizes he whole facility was about the size of an average sized junior school. Don't tell me ccfc with a little ambition can't have their own corner at Allard Way, the lands there no need to piggy back with Wasps and as for planning permission ccc have already okayed Wasps so how could they object. Don't care what Chris Anderson says it just looks to me he has no intention of securing the academy despite them making plenty of money from it through player sales and why ? because it costs them money.

Jamieblue7 · Aug 14, 2016

For the record. Wigan are category 3. I have read in depth the differences between cat 2 and 3. There is a marked difference. Pitch space, and access to indoor and outdoor as exclusive use is vital. So from what I understand not as easy as you say. I may be wrong.

Samo · Aug 14, 2016

Oops!

ccfcway · Aug 14, 2016

Sure I saw Wigan were cat 3

wingy · Aug 14, 2016

Didn't Rioch go there to head up their Academy

The Reverend Skyblue · Aug 14, 2016

I may be wrong but Wigan I'm sure bought Boltons old academy which they had to sell to pay the wages over the coming months. They also sold parking space outside the Reebok,or whatever it's called nowadays to fund payroll.
I'm sure they are going to develop this newly acuired site into a new Cat 1/2 academy so it's early days for this new site.
So presently Wigan have two academy sites, I don't know if they are selling their old one but there's huge potential up there for a great academy.

rupert_bear · Aug 14, 2016

Well from what I could see there was as much pitch space as there is at the Higgs so let's not make that an excuse. Wigan have bought Boltons training ground and that's where the first team train but going back to where I am on about there is enough room at Allard Way to emulate what is there and more

wingy · Aug 14, 2016

Bury picked up Man City's old one for peanuts as well.

chiefdave · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Was at the Wigan Athletic academy today which I believe is also a cat 2 like ours

ccfcway said:
Sure I saw Wigan were cat 3

Bit of googling and it seems their current academy is cat 3. Can see articles about them applying for cat 2 but nothing that says its been granted.
There's also articles about them purchasing another site to move the academy and achieve a higher category. Looks like they purchased the site but then didn't have the money to proceed with the development.

Hobo · Aug 14, 2016

The fact remains....with a little investment?

stupot07 · Aug 14, 2016

Epic fail....

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rupert_bear · Aug 14, 2016

stupot07 said:
Epic fail....

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You are right the epic failure by ccfc to invest in its youth and academy will in the long run have consquences

Skyblueweeman · Aug 14, 2016

wingy said:
Bury picked up Man City's old one for peanuts as well.

I met with someone from Bury FC last season and I'm sure they said that their owners now the whole lease of the Carrington training complex which is where Utd have their base as well.

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Skyblueweeman · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Don't care what Chris Anderson says it just looks to me he has no intention of securing the academy despite them making plenty of money from it through player sales and why ? because it costs them money.

So let me get this right RB...Chris Anderson (who isn't stupid), wouldn't pay say, £5 to make £15?

That's totally illogical.

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stupot07 · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
You are right the epic failure by ccfc to invest in its youth and academy will in the long run have consquences

They have been investing £600-700k pa on the academy. If there's one thing you can't accuse them of is not investing in youth and the academy, if that was thr case we wouldnt have a top 10 rated academy in the country.

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letsallsingtogether · Aug 14, 2016

wingy said:
Bury picked up Man City's old one for peanuts as well.

We can't afford peanuts, what can we get for crumbs or on loan

letsallsingtogether · Aug 14, 2016

stupot07 said:
They have been investing £600-700k pa on the academy. If there's one thing you can't accuse them of is not investing in youth and the academy, if that was thr case we wouldnt have a top 10 rated academy in the country.

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But do they now want to stop investing, that is my worry.
We are all worried on here but our owners sit there quietly not seemingly doing anything.
They never seem to have a plan B so they loose the Higgs centre Build your own that is what most clubs would do.

stupot07 · Aug 14, 2016

letsallsingtogether said:
But do they now want to stop investing, that is my worry.
We are all worried on here but our owners sit there quietly not seemingly doing anything.
They never seem to have a plan B so they loose the Higgs centre Build your own that is what most clubs would do.

Yes, we're all worried about that. I certainly am, but I can't believe the academy isn't a priority and a necessity for the club.

I'm hoping the silence is Anderson working hard behind thr scenes to sort out the plan b. Losing the academy would be a disaster.

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fernandopartridge · Aug 14, 2016

wingy said:
Bury picked up Man City's old one for peanuts as well.

That's not true. Man City's old one at Platt Lane is owned by one of the Manchester Universities.

rupert_bear · Aug 14, 2016

stupot07 said:
They have been investing £600-700k pa on the academy. If there's one thing you can't accuse them of is not investing in youth and the academy, if that was thr case we wouldnt have a top 10 rated academy in the country.

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Of course you are correct and the bulk of that £600/700k investment comes from an FA grant. We have made a good few million out of the academy so using some of that money to build our own independent of anyone else has to be better than piggy backing with Wasps, using some of the Maddison money for example

Nick · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Of course you are correct and the bulk of that £600/700k investment comes from an FA grant. We have made a good few million out of the academy so using some of that money to build our own independent of anyone else has to be better than piggy backing with Wasps, using some of the Maddison money for example

No, they match the grant then some. So they put that in.

More rants without knowing

stupot07 · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Of course you are correct and the bulk of that £600/700k investment comes from an FA grant. We have made a good few million out of the academy so using some of that money to build our own independent of anyone else has to be better than piggy backing with Wasps, using some of the Maddison money for example

No, that is ccfc's contribution, the academy costs £1.1-1.2m per annum, £500k of which is fa grant, the remaining £600/700k is the clubs contribution.

All the money made from the academy has gone back into funding operating costs.

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covmark · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Of course you are correct and the bulk of that £600/700k investment comes from an FA grant. We have made a good few million out of the academy so using some of that money to build our own independent of anyone else has to be better than piggy backing with Wasps, using some of the Maddison money for example

Oh dear. Maybe you'd benefit from some research before rant.

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dongonzalos · Aug 14, 2016

stupot07 said:
Yes, we're all worried about that. I certainly am, but I can't believe the academy isn't a priority and a necessity for the club.

I'm hoping the silence is Anderson working hard behind thr scenes to sort out the plan b. Losing the academy would be a disaster.

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I always saw the academy as the one place they would invest.
Say they were investing 700k a year.
For the last 10 years that's 7 million. (It will have been far less than this over the years but worst case scenario)
Over the last ten years think how many academy players have either made it into the first team or bolstered the squad on comparably very cheap wages.i appreciate this is more the case today than ever before.
Then look at the players sold recently or compensation received.

Christie (?)
Maddison 2.5 million
Wilson 3.5 million

Then future payments Christie making his international debut
Clubs gaining promotion
Playing reaching certain appearance levels.
The most important one Wilson if he recaptured his pre injury form and is sold on!

So it must pay fir itself and yet still there is a worrying trend of people closing academy's

fernandopartridge · Aug 14, 2016

rupert_bear said:
Of course you are correct and the bulk of that £600/700k investment comes from an FA grant. We have made a good few million out of the academy so using some of that money to build our own independent of anyone else has to be better than piggy backing with Wasps, using some of the Maddison money for example

No. The FA grant an amount which is matched by the club. You are always so off the mark. Clueless.

rupert_bear · Aug 15, 2016

But wouldn't it be beneficial to own our own than rent off Wasps ? If the running costs said above are correct either way if we have to match the FA grant it will still cost about £600k and the thread isn't really about that it's about building our own and to build it similar to what I saw today isn't that difficult imo

stupot07 · Aug 15, 2016

rupert_bear said:
But wouldn't it be beneficial to own our own than rent off Wasps ? If the running costs said above are correct either way if we have to match the FA grant it will still cost about £600k and the thread isn't really about that it's about building our own and to build it similar to what I saw today isn't that difficult imo

But what you saw today wasnt a cat 2 academy. We'd need land the size of higgs site for a start, which will cost a few million (hence why wasps went to thr cheap option with higgs), then will cost around £7-8m to build, so you'd be talking £10-12m. Higgs centre cost £10m 12 years ago, wasps aren't having to do any major landscaping and pitch works, and there's is £7m plus £500k for thr land.

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Rusty Trombone · Aug 15, 2016

dongonzalos said:
I always saw the academy as the one place they would invest.
Say they were investing 700k a year.
For the last 10 years that's 7 million. (It will have been far less than this over the years but worst case scenario)
Over the last ten years think how many academy players have either made it into the first team or bolstered the squad on comparably very cheap wages.i appreciate this is more the case today than ever before.
Then look at the players sold recently or compensation received.

Christie (?)
Maddison 2.5 million
Wilson 3.5 million

Then future payments Christie making his international debut
Clubs gaining promotion
Playing reaching certain appearance levels.
The most important one Wilson if he recaptured his pre injury form and is sold on!

So it must pay fir itself and yet still there is a worrying trend of people closing academy's

In the year we sold Wilson and Christie the Accounts show we received £2.7m, not sure if anyone else was sold that year. I'd be surprised if we've received more than £500k for Maddison. Obviously it's possible that we may get more money from the sale of these players in the future.

rupert_bear · Aug 15, 2016

But is a cat3 Acadamy better than none. What I saw today had everything there is at Higgs 4 full size pitches and a number of junior ones. The way we are heading we won't have one at all soon

1940oldfive · Aug 15, 2016

stupot07 said:
Yes, we're all worried about that. I certainly am, but I can't believe the academy isn't a priority and a necessity for the club.

I'm hoping the silence is Anderson working hard behind thr scenes to sort out the plan b. Losing the academy would be a disaster.

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the same has tiny tim working on the new arena

Astute · Aug 15, 2016

stupot07 said:
Yes, we're all worried about that. I certainly am, but I can't believe the academy isn't a priority and a necessity for the club.

Having a ground to play in is a priority and a necessity for our club. And we all know what happened there.

Sick Boy · Aug 15, 2016

Astute said:
Having a ground to play in is a priority and a necessity for our club. And we all know what happened there.

The council sold it to Wasps?

no_loyalty · Aug 15, 2016

Fuck the expense lets go for a cat 1 academy

rupert_bear · Aug 15, 2016

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stupot07 said:
But what you saw today wasnt a cat 2 academy. We'd need land the size of higgs site for a start, which will cost a few million (hence why wasps went to thr cheap option with higgs), then will cost around £7-8m to build, so you'd be talking £10-12m. Higgs centre cost £10m 12 years ago, wasps aren't having to do any major landscaping and pitch works, and there's is £7m plus £500k for thr land.

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We have the land...at Ryton, as much land as what I seen at Wigan, maybe a little more, layout just needs re-jigging a bit and there's indoor facilities at the Connexion !

Nick · Aug 15, 2016

rupert_bear said:
We have the land...at Ryton, as much land as what I seen at Wigan, maybe a little more, layout just needs re-jigging a bit and there's indoor facilities at the Connexion !

There isn't a full size pitch on 3 or 4g at connexion is there?

This Academy bullshit ! (3 Viewers)

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