The World Cup Thread (2 Viewers)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
What? 1 chance against Panama which Stones followed up?

He missed a couple of offside chances, so what? They wouldn't have counted anyway.

Sitter against Panama - saved by Stones.
Sitter against Sweden #1 - saved by the offside flag.
Sitter against Sweden #2 - praise the goalkeeper but ignore the fact he should have buried it.

The defensive of him is ridiculous. Even without these above mentioned, his other biggest moment's this tournament have largely been brilliant runs with zero end product time after time.

You honestly think he's played as well as all those people were saying he was going to play?

Either he has played well and I need some of the drugs all these people are taking, or I'm right and because we've hit the semi-final and have something to be positive about therefore ignore it and pretend he played well.

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Who said I was comparing the two on speed?

Was comparing in terms of making space for others.

There is no comparison. Speed by itself creates space as it pulls players out of position - defenders get stretched - speed does that alone

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Sweden are rubbish. What did you make of them yesterday exactly?

I suggest you do what I did and watch them play in all of their internationals and come back to me with an apology. They would struggle in the championship.

To say Sweden are rubbish just demonstrates how little you know about football. That mindset reeks of the arrogant and ignorant approach we had to ‘lesser’ nations in the past and got shown up for.

As another poster pointed out, they beat Italy and the Netherlands to even get to a World Cup. Then, they topped their group with Germany in it — which most of SBT’s in-house experts predicted to win the tournament. This is all without their only superstar, Ibrahimovic. Individually, they have no stars, but it doesn’t make them rubbish at all and are a team that is very well organised, and effective. Switzerland came into to tournament losing 1 game in 20+ games (drew against Brazil) and Sweden beat them 1-0. They’re not a team for the wannabe football ‘philosophers’ who think everyone should try to emulate the Spain team of 2008-2012. But they’re very good at what they do. We were just better than them and Southgate deserves full credit for the performance England turned out. We controlled the game start to finish with an intelligent game plan. Sterling was a key facet of that because even clearing the ball away, his pace panicked Granqvist (in particular) into giving away corners and throw-ins deep in their territory and as I outlined, he’s our only dribbler in the starting team — which you need.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
To say Sweden are rubbish just demonstrates how little you know about football. That mindset reeks of the arrogant and ignorant approach we had to ‘lesser’ nations in the past and got shown up for.

As another poster pointed out, they beat Italy and the Netherlands to even get to a World Cup. Then, they topped their group with Germany in it — which most of SBT’s in-house experts predicted to win the tournament. This is all without their only superstar, Ibrahimovic. Individually, they have no stars, but it doesn’t make them rubbish at all and are a team that is very well organised, and effective. Switzerland came into to tournament losing 1 game in 20+ games (drew against Brazil) and Sweden beat them 1-0. They’re not a team for the wannabe football ‘philosophers’ who think everyone should try to emulate the Spain team of 2008-2012. But they’re very good at what they do. We were just better than them and Southgate deserves full credit for the performance England turned out. We controlled the game start to finish with an intelligent game plan. Sterling was a key facet of that because even clearing the ball away, his pace panicked Granqvist (in particular) into giving away corners and throw-ins deep in their territory and as I outlined, he’s our only dribbler in the starting team — which you need.

By trying to say Sweden are good at football and praising Sterling for his abysmal performances I'd argue calling me clueless about football is slightly comical.

I lived in Sweden, I've seen them play many times. They are not a good team. Go and watch back all of their world cup games. They are shocking. The game against Switzerland they scraped through because the Swiss were even worse somehow. It was like watching a League 1 game of football.

Italy and Holland? Two teams that did not qualify and therefore are pretty shit at the moment. I suppose Saudi Arabia and Iran are class because they made it?

Sterling ran at Sweden, well done. My dogs could do that and still have more end product.

Your defensive of Sterling is laughable and if he did start playing well you would see a lot of people get off his back pretty quickly.

Like others though, I'm still waiting...

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
By trying to say Sweden are good at football and praising Sterling for his abysmal performances I'd argue calling me clueless about football is slightly comical.

I lived in Sweden, I've seen them play many times. They are not a good team. Go and watch back all of their world cup games. They are shocking. The game against Switzerland they scraped through because the Swiss were even worse somehow. It was like watching a League 1 game of football.

Italy and Holland? Two teams that did not qualify and therefore are pretty shit at the moment. I suppose Saudi Arabia and Iran are class because they made it?

Sterling ran at Sweden, well done. My dogs could do that and still have more end product.

Your defensive of Sterling is laughable and if he did start playing well you would see a lot of people get off his back pretty quickly.

Like others though, I'm still waiting...

Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a group of teams of lower quality. They’d be also fans in a Europe Group.

Sweden qualified against teams we’d expect most times to lose to.

Sterling has looked poor but yesterday made a big impact and influence on the game and result

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Sitter against Panama - saved by Stones.
Sitter against Sweden #1 - saved by the offside flag.
Sitter against Sweden #2 - praise the goalkeeper but ignore the fact he should have buried it.

The defensive of him is ridiculous. Even without these above mentioned, his other biggest moment's this tournament have largely been brilliant runs with zero end product time after time.

You honestly think he's played as well as all those people were saying he was going to play?

Either he has played well and I need some of the drugs all these people are taking, or I'm right and because we've hit the semi-final and have something to be positive about therefore ignore it and pretend he played well.

- Stones scored it, so does it matter? No.

- The ‘first chance’ that was offside? You can clearly see he knew he was offside, at one point he basically stopped, the commentators noticed it too, he was well offside and he knew it. Either way, he could’ve made the slickest finish and it wouldn’t have counted, so it is really nit picky and a desperate point to make.

- the only chance he had v Sweden? Should’ve done better, absolutely. But, if you’ve rewatched the chance you’ll see some really good last ditch defending from the Swedes and it really wasn’t that easy of a chance after the keeper knocked it wide.

Did he play well v Sweden? 100%. By far our most threatening player. The proof will be in the pudding when Southgate starts him v Croatia. Not bad for man in charge of a ‘weak’ England team who not many people fancied when first appointed. It’s the first time England have reached a semi-final in a World Cup and first semi-final in living memory (I wasn’t even 2 in ‘96) for me.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 8, 2018

Mucca Mad Boys said:
- Stones scored it, so does it matter? No.

- The ‘first chance’ that was offside? You can clearly see he knew he was offside, at one point he basically stopped, the commentators noticed it too, he was well offside and he knew it. Either way, he could’ve made the slickest finish and it wouldn’t have counted, so it is really nit picky and a desperate point to make.

- the only chance he had v Sweden? Should’ve done better, absolutely. But, if you’ve rewatched the chance you’ll see some really good last ditch defending from the Swedes and it really wasn’t that easy of a chance after the keeper knocked it wide.

Did he play well v Sweden? 100%. By far our most threatening player. The proof will be in the pudding when Southgate starts him v Croatia. Not bad for man in charge of a ‘weak’ England team who not many people fancied when first appointed. It’s the first time England have reached a semi-final in a World Cup and first semi-final in living memory (I wasn’t even 2 in ‘96) for me.

It's a pretty average England team but the key is that they work as a team. There are no egos like we have had in the past.

Sterling is about the only player that is getting regularly ridiculed. It is because he is not living up to it. I don't enjoy giving him a hard time, I want him to do well. The fact is he is not doing well and the blind defence of him is infuriating because it is so obviously not true. If other players have an off game they get called out, if Sterling has yet another bad game the excuses come out.

He will start against Croatia not on merit, but on the simple fact Southgate won't change a winning team. Even if we won 4-3 on Wednesday and Sterling scored 3 own goals he would probably still start in a final.

His best game was against a poor Sweden team but he was still average. Making an excuse for every single miss just fuels the argument there is so much blind defense of him. It reminds me of MartCov on Brexit. He can do no wrong in some eyes.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
By trying to say Sweden are good at football and praising Sterling for his abysmal performances I'd argue calling me clueless about football is slightly comical.

I lived in Sweden, I've seen them play many times. They are not a good team. Go and watch back all of their world cup games. They are shocking. The game against Switzerland they scraped through because the Swiss were even worse somehow. It was like watching a League 1 game of football.

Italy and Holland? Two teams that did not qualify and therefore are pretty shit at the moment. I suppose Saudi Arabia and Iran are class because they made it?

Sterling ran at Sweden, well done. My dogs could do that and still have more end product.

Your defensive of Sterling is laughable and if he did start playing well you would see a lot of people get off his back pretty quickly.

Like others though, I'm still waiting...

The Netherlands (3rd place in 2014) and Italy are teams who routinely do well at major tournaments, and have winning records against ourselves, were beaten by Sweden. They cannot be anywhere near as bad as you make out to do that. I like how you dismiss Switzerland as easy opponents, a team who’s lost 3 times in the last 25/26 games (one of those losses on penalties at Euro 2016). Their only loss before the Sweden game was against Portugal in qualifying. They got a deserved draw v Brazil too. Sweden were unlucky to lose to Germany and deserved a draw at least — they cut up Germany more than they cut us up. Just as everyone was swooning over Mexico’s win over Germany, Sweden battered them 3-0 and only we took the lead against them this tournament.

Funnily enough, your argument is essentially the opposite of Gareth Southgate’s. Who’s achieved what no one has done in a generation: lead England to a World Cup semi-final with a good chance of getting to a first final since ‘66. He clearly knows what he’s doing, and continues to select him and Dele — another player people (I think you were one of them) were calling to dropped and he scored a goal. Like you with Sterling, I was wrong about Lingard and I was unsure if he was good enough after a couple of misses v Tunisia (which were worse than Sterling’s chances, especially the first) but he’s proven to be a key player for us. I put faith in the manager because he knows better than you or I, and the results back that up.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's a pretty average England team but the key is that they work as a team. There are no egos like we have had in the past.

Sterling is about the only player that is getting regularly ridiculed. It is because he is not living up to it. I don't enjoy giving him a hard time, I want him to do well. The fact is he is not doing well and the blind defence of him is infuriating because it is so obviously not true. If other players have an off game they get called out, if Sterling has yet another bad game the excuses come out.

He will start against Croatia not on merit, but on the simple fact Southgate won't change a winning team. Even if we won 4-3 on Wednesday and Sterling scored 3 own goals he would probably still start in a final.

His best game was against a poor Sweden team but he was still average. Making an excuse for every single miss just fuels the argument there is so much blind defense of him. It reminds me of MartCov on Brexit. He can do no wrong in some eyes.

The bolded part of your quote shows the irrationality of your argument if you truly believe that.

Sterling wasn’t the only one to receive criticism. Lingard was criticised v Tunisia for his misses, Pickford was criticised v Belgium, Dele was dismissed as ‘unfit’ and calls for Loftus-Cheek were regular. Maguire was rated a 3 or a 4 out of 10 in the Metro (and low rating in other publications) the night after the Tunisia game. Young has been criticised for cutting in on his right before he crosses it, so Rose should start because he’s a left footer (I held this opinion, and Lingard tbf and I was wrong). Each of Southgate’s selections has vindicated him game after game. Frankly, Southgate sees the bigger picture and most football fans, let’s be honest, don’t. How many people were calling for multiple changes after the Colombia game just on this thread? Too many, and they were all wrong.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
There is no comparison. Speed by itself creates space as it pulls players out of position - defenders get stretched - speed does that alone

Ha! What nonsense.

Movement has nothing to do with it then?

Have seen many a player without much pace create space for others with intelligent movement.

Speed alone!! Ha!!! Ha!!!!!

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Ha! What nonsense.

Movement has nothing to do with it then?

Have seen many a player without much pace create space for others with intelligent movement.

Speed alone!! Ha!!! Ha!!!!!

At all levels of the game it’s important. The Swedish centre half was exposed time and time again by the ball over the top and he running onto it. It caused mayhem time and time again.

We have seen it to an extent with jones and we really saw it with Misfud - it was a prime quality that destroyed defences

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
At all levels of the game it’s important. The Swedish centre half was exposed time and time again by the ball over the top and he running onto it. It caused mayhem time and time again.

We have seen it to an extent with jones and we really saw it with Misfud - it was a prime quality that destroyed defences

Not disagreeing with any of that. It is clearly a big factor and like I said, I was against bringing Sterling off because he was terrorising the Swedish defence.

He simply cannot keep missing gilt-edged chances though.

I don't mind if he doesn't score at all as long as he's creating assists for others.

Could well cost us if he keeps missing chances and he is hardly involved in any assists.

Grendel · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Not disagreeing with any of that. It is clearly a big factor and like I said, I was against bringing Sterling off because he was terrorising the Swedish defence.

He simply cannot keep missing gilt-edged chances though.

I don't mind if he doesn't score at all as long as he's creating assists for others.

Could well cost us if he keeps missing chances.

He was a major factor in winning the game.

You don’t like Young either. You gave him a 4 in the first half and he did create a goal!

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Grendel said:
He was a major factor in winning the game.

You don’t like Young either. You gave him a 4 in the first half and he did create a goal!

Yep. Think his crossing was good, but the rest of his game in that first half was very poor.

Second half he was much better and I still think Rose is much the better of the two.

shmmeee · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Not disagreeing with any of that. It is clearly a big factor and like I said, I was against bringing Sterling off because he was terrorising the Swedish defence.

He simply cannot keep missing gilt-edged chances though.

I don't mind if he doesn't score at all as long as he's creating assists for others.

Could well cost us if he keeps missing chances and he is hardly involved in any assists.

What he brings won't show up in the headline stats though. Just because he doesn't have the assists doesn't mean he didn't assist us scoring.

Same with Kent when he was here, just having him on the pitch changes the way the opposition set up and allows others to play.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Have changed my mind on Young.

Just watched large chunks of the game back right now and his corners were excellent and a couple of his crosses too.

Still prefer Rose, but the fact we are scoring from set pieces has had me change my mind, having watched that footage and I would now keep him in.

Do still worry about him if he is targeted by a fast winger though defensively.

The other thing that struck me is that it is amazing really that we have got this far and yet a number of players have not been at the top of their game.

Walker has been okay, but I think we were expecting more of him.

Alli was much better yesterday, but still has been disappointing and I would ditto that for Sterling, who again was much better yesterday, but hasn't played that well.

It's also quite funny that the players we were worried about pre tournament, the centrebacks and the keeper, have been amongst our better players.

Pickford, Stones and Maguire have all done well.

Sick Boy · Jul 8, 2018

What do you all think of England's chances on Weds? IMO it's their first proper test this WC.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What do you all think of England's chances on Weds? IMO it's their first proper test this WC.

I do think we will win.

The big test is France or Belgium.

Don't like all talk of we are going to win it and bring it back home, but do think we can win it for sure.

Think the French or the Belgians would need to be slightly off colour against us though. If they are on top form I think we will lose.

Johnnythespider · Jul 8, 2018

The thing with Sterling is it doesn't matter if he misses chances so long as we're winning, but if we are 1 down and he gets a chance to equalise in the 90th minute and misses it's a different story. It's, to a lesser degree, like Biamou last season, which is why I'm surprised to see some who called out Max last season defending Sterling.

Otis · Jul 8, 2018

Johnnythespider said:
The thing with Sterling is it doesn't matter if he misses chances so long as we're winning, but if we are 1 down and he gets a chance to equalise in the 90th minute and misses it's a different story. It's, to a lesser degree, like Biamou last season, which is why I'm surprised to see some who called out Max last season defending Sterling.

Well there's the thing and it's a very fine line.

Had Pickford not saved those shots and we had ultimately lost the game, the finger would be very much pointing at Raheem Sterling and he would have got slaughtered in the press.

Sky Blue Harry H · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
I do think we will win.

The big test is France or Belgium.

Don't like all talk of we are going to win it and bring it back home, but do think we can win it for sure.

Think the French or the Belgians would need to be slightly off colour against us though. If they are on top form I think we will lose.

Agree Otis, if we get through and face France, my main worry would be Mbappe up against Young - I think he would target him. The rest of the French team are ok, but would fancy a close game (if we could kidnap Mbappe). Belgium are all about attack - if we were to face them and their main 3 are all fit, that will be a struggle. If we get enough set pieces though, and Sterling finds his shooting boots, who knows. For me it's a defeat in the final! More chance v France than Belgium.

Sky_Blue_Daz · Jul 8, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What do you all think of England's chances on Weds? IMO it's their first proper test this WC.

Set pieces are the key to this game also I wouldn’t have trippier on the posts at corners I would have him stationed out wide to set up counter attacks

MusicDating · Jul 8, 2018

shmmeee said:
What he brings won't show up in the headline stats though. Just because he doesn't have the assists doesn't mean he didn't assist us scoring.

Same with Kent when he was here, just having him on the pitch changes the way the opposition set up and allows others to play.

Exactly. Pace with the likes of Murphy, Kent, Gally, Huckerby and physical presence with the likes of Rosario, Roussel, Dublin (and maybe Biamou...). They all force the opposition to focus on your team rather than theirs and play a different way. I find it so bizarre that folk don't 'get it'...

Covstu · Jul 8, 2018

Johnnythespider said:
The thing with Sterling is it doesn't matter if he misses chances so long as we're winning, but if we are 1 down and he gets a chance to equalise in the 90th minute and misses it's a different story. It's, to a lesser degree, like Biamou last season, which is why I'm surprised to see some who called out Max last season defending Sterling.

Not being funny but whoever misses that 90th min chance is going to be the villain in the scenario

Covstu · Jul 8, 2018

Sick Boy said:
What do you all think of England's chances on Weds? IMO it's their first proper test this WC.

Think it will go to extra time but not pens. There will be goals in this one and we will pip it 3-2. Would agree with other posters, not sure we have enough in the tank for an on song France or Belgium side

Johnnythespider · Jul 8, 2018

Covstu said:
Not being funny but whoever misses that 90th min chance is going to be the villain in the scenario

Agreed, my point is it's easier to defend a players missed chances when winning than when it really matters, note he didn't take a penalty the other night. I don't think Southgate will change the team now and I'm not sure he should, these players have got us to the semi final and probably deserve the chance to try and win it.

xcraigx · Jul 8, 2018

Johnnythespider said:
Agreed, my point is it's easier to defend a players missed chances when winning than when it really matters, note he didn't take a penalty the other night. I don't think Southgate will change the team now and I'm not sure he should, these players have got us to the semi final and probably deserve the chance to try and win it.

He wasn't on the pitch so couldn't take a penalty.

Westendlad · Jul 8, 2018

Otis said:
Have changed my mind on Young.

Just watched large chunks of the game back right now and his corners were excellent and a couple of his crosses too.

Still prefer Rose, but the fact we are scoring from set pieces has had me change my mind, having watched that footage and I would now keep him in.

Do still worry about him if he is targeted by a fast winger though defensively.

The other thing that struck me is that it is amazing really that we have got this far and yet a number of players have not been at the top of their game.

Walker has been okay, but I think we were expecting more of him.

Alli was much better yesterday, but still has been disappointing and I would ditto that for Sterling, who again was much better yesterday, but hasn't played that well.

It's also quite funny that the players we were worried about pre tournament, the centrebacks and the keeper, have been amongst our better players.

Pickford, Stones and Maguire have all done well.

Young is only in because of the set pieces, did better yesterday but still prefer Rose. Walker is a wing back so the role he's playing is new to him and i think he's been very good.

CJ_covblaze · Jul 8, 2018

Wednesday is going to be very tough. I think they’re going win it. With regards to Italy and Holland it’s no surprise. The Dutch are one of the worst sides I’ve seen us play in the last year or so. Italy are better than them but still not that good. Missing out will be the big wake up call they need.

Mcbean · Jul 8, 2018

Croatia did look on their last legs which can only be good ! just a shame no one crocked Modrich

Covstu · Jul 8, 2018

xcraigx said:
He wasn't on the pitch so couldn't take a penalty.

Don’t let that stop the sterling bashing!

Westendlad · Jul 8, 2018

Mcbean said:
Croatia did look on their last legs which can only be good ! just a shame no one crocked Modrich

I know i was hoping someone would do a 'Nick' on him !!

MusicDating · Jul 8, 2018

CJ_covblaze said:
Wednesday is going to be very tough. I think they’re going win it. With regards to Italy and Holland it’s no surprise. The Dutch are one of the worst sides I’ve seen us play in the last year or so. Italy are better than them but still not that good. Missing out will be the big wake up call they need.

So you don't think we'll win it CJ (btw for the oldies out there, I still think of Reggie Perrin when I write that...)? I've got a couple of mates out there who are pretty confident 'it's coming home'...

Interesting to just read that the Croatia coach Dalic has highlighted Kane and Sterling as the main threats (World Cup 2018: Croatia can deal with Harry Kane after 'stopping Messi' - Zlatko Dalic). Is there any frustration amongst fans for any players seemingly not performing or is it all about the team?

Westendlad · Jul 8, 2018

Rashford... Do like him but still seems a bit raw to start. Wellbeck....Knows where the goal is thats for sure but does little else. Vardy....Don't rate him, tries hard but unless its on a plate nahh. Has to be Stirling to start...end of.

Westendlad · Jul 8, 2018

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's a pretty average England team but the key is that they work as a team. There are no egos like we have had in the past.

Sterling is about the only player that is getting regularly ridiculed. It is because he is not living up to it. I don't enjoy giving him a hard time, I want him to do well. The fact is he is not doing well and the blind defence of him is infuriating because it is so obviously not true. If other players have an off game they get called out, if Sterling has yet another bad game the excuses come out.

He will start against Croatia not on merit, but on the simple fact Southgate won't change a winning team. Even if we won 4-3 on Wednesday and Sterling scored 3 own goals he would probably still start in a final.

His best game was against a poor Sweden team but he was still average. Making an excuse for every single miss just fuels the argument there is so much blind defense of him. It reminds me of MartCov on Brexit. He can do no wrong in some eyes.

Ssshhhhhhhhhhh Don't want Martcov on this thread too !!

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