The reality will really kick in in League One (2 Viewers)

Otis · Apr 18, 2012

The real problem we have is, Sisu sell players. They have consistenly sold players to try and help balance the books. They will continue to sell players to balance the books. There can be no doubt about that whatsoever.

There is not much of the family silver left now to sell though is there. The Dann's and Fox's and Turner's and Gunnar's and Westwood's and Juke's of this world have all gone.

Cranie will leave. Clingan will leave. That seems certain.

The only players we can then sell who will be worth anything at all will be Keogh, McDonald and then Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Cameron, Wood and Christie.

We can therefore expect that if any offer comes in for any of these players that is half-decent, then they will be gone. Quite possible that they will all be gone. Sisu will sell.

If decent offers come in for all those players, the board will sell all those players.

We may need to build a team around the following quite possibly;

Murphy

Hussey

Bell Baker Deegan

Sheff Platt

Expect at least 6 loan players in ... that is if their parent clubs will pay the vast majority of their wages and new kids having to step up, Daniels, Clarke-Harris, Phillips, Ruffles and Willis.

That would be a squad of 18.

Desperate, desperate times await.

Anyone who thinks we will do well in League One is delusional.

This time next year, expect 2 games to go and us having to win those 2 games to stay in League One.

ONLY hope is a takeover. Takeover or a continuing slide to obscurity.

Sisu will sell players. They will sell any player for any half-decent offer that comes in. Time to wake up and smell the coffee unfortunately.

Colonel Mustard · Apr 18, 2012

I think the Financial Fair Play rules offer one optimistic note.

If all sides are similarly hamstrung in the amount they can spend, then surely a more even playing field will develop.

It's a big "if", but if we can hold onto the majority of fans and be running a ceiling-level payroll, then the size of our club ought to be an advantage in L1. If that leads to wins and promotion challenges, then the club may have the momentum it's needed for a long time.

coundonskyblue · Apr 18, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
I think the Financial Fair Play rules offer one optimistic note.

If all sides are similarly hamstrung in the amount they can spend, then surely a more even playing field will develop.

It's a big "if", but if we can hold onto the majority of fans and be running a ceiling-level payroll, then the size of our club ought to be an advantage in L1. If that leads to wins and promotion challenges, then the club may have the momentum it's needed for a long time.

These FFP rules are just the authorities trying to give the appearance of doing something. No one has said what happens if a club breaks them anyway.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

Otis said:
The real problem we have is, Sisu sell players. They have consistenly sold players to try and help balance the books. They will continue to sell players to balance the books. There can be no doubt about that whatsoever.

There is not much of the family silver left now to sell though is there. The Dann's and Fox's and Turner's and Gunnar's and Westwood's and Juke's of this world have all gone.

Cranie will leave. Clingan will leave. That seems certain.

The only players we can then sell who will be worth anything at all will be Keogh, McDonald and then Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Cameron, Wood and Christie.

We can therefore expect that if any offer comes in for any of these players that is half-decent, then they will be gone. Quite possible that they will all be gone. Sisu will sell.

If decent offers come in for all those players, the board will sell all those players.

We may need to build a team around the following quite possibly;

Murphy

Hussey

Bell Baker Deegan

Sheff Platt

Expect at least 6 loan players in ... that is if their parent clubs will pay the vast majority of their wages and new kids having to step up, Daniels, Clarke-Harris, Phillips, Ruffles and Willis.

That would be a squad of 18.

Desperate, desperate times await.

Anyone who thinks we will do well in League One is delusional.

This time next year, expect 2 games to go and us having to win those 2 games to stay in League One.

ONLY hope is a takeover. Takeover or a continuing slide to obscurity.

Sisu will sell players. They will sell any player for any half-decent offer that comes in. Time to wake up and smell the coffee unfortunately.

Otis - the real problem is that we don't have sufficient income. We need to generate funds to pay the bills AND invest in the squad.

Until expenditure is reduced below that of income, we will always struggle

Even a take over may not solve the problem. The new rules, if implemented, will restrict any owner from spending money, if the club has an operating deficit

hill83 · Apr 18, 2012

A positive note for me, a few of my friends who haven't been season ticket holders for a while have said they will be getting one next season.
I hope a few more have this mentality and 'join the fight'.

In reality though, we are doomed.

Astute · Apr 18, 2012

Colonel Mustard said:
I think the Financial Fair Play rules offer one optimistic note.

If all sides are similarly hamstrung in the amount they can spend, then surely a more even playing field will develop.

It's a big "if", but if we can hold onto the majority of fans and be running a ceiling-level payroll, then the size of our club ought to be an advantage in L1. If that leads to wins and promotion challenges, then the club may have the momentum it's needed for a long time.

I agree with the fair play rules coming to our aid. The only problem is we are starting from a low base as we have a lack of players now. The teams with better, higher earning players are allowed these players as they were under contract before the rules come in. Portsmouth will have played the system to the max and will have a big advantage next season.

coundonskyblue · Apr 18, 2012

Are the Financial fair play rules based on income or profit?

If its income we should be at an advantage, if its profit we're doomed!

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

Astute said:
I agree with the fair play rules coming to our aid. The only problem is we are starting from a low base as we have a lack of players now. The teams with better, higher earning players are allowed these players as they were under contract before the rules come in. Portsmouth will have played the system to the max and will have a big advantage next season.

The new rules have the potential to make things even worse.

Entirely possible that we will need to cut costs even faster next season

DazzleTommyDazzle · Apr 18, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
The new rules have the potential to make things even worse.

Entirely possible that we will need to cut costs even faster next season

And so the SISU spiral of decline will continue.

Might we stabilise in League One? (at least it looks like I'll get a local fixture next year - it's only 10 miles to Shrewsbury )

Just at the moment, I'm hoping we'll have sufficient players left to find 4 clubs worse than us next year.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
And so the SISU spiral of decline will continue.

Might we stabilise in League One? (at least it looks like I'll get a local fixture next year - it's only 10 miles to Shrewsbury )

Just at the moment, I'm hoping we'll have sufficient players left to find 4 clubs worse than us next year.

More of a City spiral of decline

This was all sadly inevitable.

It might take relegation to League 2 for us to stabilise

idris65 · Apr 18, 2012

Otis said:
The real problem we have is, Sisu sell players. They have consistenly sold players to try and help balance the books. They will continue to sell players to balance the books. There can be no doubt about that whatsoever.

There is not much of the family silver left now to sell though is there. The Dann's and Fox's and Turner's and Gunnar's and Westwood's and Juke's of this world have all gone.

Cranie will leave. Clingan will leave. That seems certain.

The only players we can then sell who will be worth anything at all will be Keogh, McDonald and then Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Cameron, Wood and Christie.

We can therefore expect that if any offer comes in for any of these players that is half-decent, then they will be gone. Quite possible that they will all be gone. Sisu will sell.

If decent offers come in for all those players, the board will sell all those players.

We may need to build a team around the following quite possibly;

Murphy

Hussey

Bell Baker Deegan

Sheff Platt

Expect at least 6 loan players in ... that is if their parent clubs will pay the vast majority of their wages and new kids having to step up, Daniels, Clarke-Harris, Phillips, Ruffles and Willis.

That would be a squad of 18.

Desperate, desperate times await.

Anyone who thinks we will do well in League One is delusional.

This time next year, expect 2 games to go and us having to win those 2 games to stay in League One.

ONLY hope is a takeover. Takeover or a continuing slide to obscurity.

Sisu will sell players. They will sell any player for any half-decent offer that comes in. Time to wake up and smell the coffee unfortunately.

This is the truest statement about our club all year. Totally agree with all of the above. Nobody could have put our situation more precisely.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

idris65 said:
This is the truest statement about our club all year. Totally agree with all of the above. Nobody could have put our situation more precisely.

Truest statement

Apart from the flaws

Any new owner will have to sell players, this isn't just a SISU policy. It is the harsh reality of having no money and no stadium - thanks to BR and GR

covcity4life · Apr 18, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
Truest statement

Apart from the flaws

Any new owner will have to sell players, this isn't just a SISU policy. It is the harsh reality of having no money and no stadium - thanks to BR and GR

new owners with money cant front the losses themselves and not need to sell players

they can aim for success on the pitch as a priority whilst going for stadium

rich owners that is of course

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

covcity4life said:
new owners with money cant front the losses themselves and not need to sell players

they can aim for success on the pitch as a priority whilst going for stadium

rich owners that is of course

Can you clarify the first sentence please?

I think you mean that new owners can front the losses (?)

If so, that isn't the case. The new UEFA financial rules have the potential to prevent any new owner, no matter how rich, from investing in the squad.

Until the club reduces it's operating losses

Yorkshire SB · Apr 18, 2012

The strict Fair Play rules are only being applied to PL, I believe in League one the only thing that will happen or may have already, is a salary cap.

Good article thought Otis, agree with much of what has been said. I would suggest that of the list we may not lose quite so many of the younger players, but then who knows. I'd expect bids for Bigiramana, Christie and Thomas as they have had the most media coverage. Personally of all of them I want to keep Clarke, could be an absolute superstar in League 1

Otis · Apr 18, 2012

templericoh said:
The strict Fair Play rules are only being applied to PL, I believe in League one the only thing that will happen or may have already, is a salary cap.

Good article thought Otis, agree with much of what has been said. I would suggest that of the list we may not lose quite so many of the younger players, but then who knows. I'd expect bids for Bigiramana, Christie and Thomas as they have had the most media coverage. Personally of all of them I want to keep Clarke, could be an absolute superstar in League 1

I wouldn't be too unhappy if in losing Thomas and Big we were able to keep Clarke, Christie and Cameron. Very important to get our back line right. Good soild defence is the best way to start in having a successful side. Wood would be good in League One too, but I am guessing he is one of our higest earners and will be sold.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

templericoh said:
The strict Fair Play rules are only being applied to PL, I believe in League one the only thing that will happen or may have already, is a salary cap.

Good article thought Otis, agree with much of what has been said. I would suggest that of the list we may not lose quite so many of the younger players, but then who knows. I'd expect bids for Bigiramana, Christie and Thomas as they have had the most media coverage. Personally of all of them I want to keep Clarke, could be an absolute superstar in League 1

The UEFA Financial Fair Play rules are being implemented by the Football League from the beginning of next season; this was ratified in June 2011.

A delay is possible for the Championshio

But League One clubs will have a spending limit, based on turnover.

If confirmed, a new owner may not be allowed to spend

covcity4life · Apr 18, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
Can you clarify the first sentence please?

I think you mean that new owners can front the losses (?)

If so, that isn't the case. The new UEFA financial rules have the potential to prevent any new owner, no matter how rich, from investing in the squad.

Until the club reduces it's operating losses

sorry yes i meant can

as for FFP,i dont beleive it is going to be enforced strongly

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 18, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
The UEFA Financial Fair Play rules are being implemented by the Football League from the beginning of next season; this was ratified in June 2011.

A delay is possible for the Championshio

But League One clubs will have a spending limit, based on turnover.

If confirmed, a new owner may not be allowed to spend

It is being delayed in the Championship till 2013/14.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It is being delayed in the Championship till 2013/14.

Yes. After a complaint from West Ham

But will be implemented in League One and Two

Requiring any new owner to cut costs

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 18, 2012

Otis said:
The real problem we have is, Sisu sell players. They have consistenly sold players to try and help balance the books. They will continue to sell players to balance the books. There can be no doubt about that whatsoever.

There is not much of the family silver left now to sell though is there. The Dann's and Fox's and Turner's and Gunnar's and Westwood's and Juke's of this world have all gone.

Cranie will leave. Clingan will leave. That seems certain.

The only players we can then sell who will be worth anything at all will be Keogh, McDonald and then Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Cameron, Wood and Christie.

We can therefore expect that if any offer comes in for any of these players that is half-decent, then they will be gone. Quite possible that they will all be gone. Sisu will sell.

If decent offers come in for all those players, the board will sell all those players.

We may need to build a team around the following quite possibly;

Murphy

Hussey

Bell Baker Deegan

Sheff Platt

Expect at least 6 loan players in ... that is if their parent clubs will pay the vast majority of their wages and new kids having to step up, Daniels, Clarke-Harris, Phillips, Ruffles and Willis.

That would be a squad of 18.

Desperate, desperate times await.

Anyone who thinks we will do well in League One is delusional.

This time next year, expect 2 games to go and us having to win those 2 games to stay in League One.

ONLY hope is a takeover. Takeover or a continuing slide to obscurity.

Sisu will sell players. They will sell any player for any half-decent offer that comes in. Time to wake up and smell the coffee unfortunately.

The only thing I slightly disagree with you on Otis is getting in half a dozen loanees-though as you say, they will only be signed if they come at next to no cost to the club; and I can't see that appealing to many parent teams unless they are very keen to offload.

Astute · Apr 18, 2012

Teams are allowed to spend a certain percentage of their income on wages. Income is not just gate money or season tickets. Sponsorship comes into it. How much do we receive each season from Ricoh for the naming rights? How much do we receive from the catering at "our" ground? This is where we will be at a disadvantage over other clubs.

For teams spending too much on wages there will be consequenses to pay. Not allowed into Europe Maybe even points docked. Owners with money will be able to get past the rules though. Lets say we have a rich owner. His company could sponsor the team for lets say 20m a year. If the clubs are allowed to spend say 60% of income on wages this will leave 12m for this. The other problem I see is that the big clubs will get bigger as they can afford wages well above what the smaller well run clubs can't, even if they have the money in the bank. All the best players will end up at the big clubs.

stupot07 · Apr 18, 2012

I believe it's 55%.

banbury_skyblue · Apr 18, 2012

No-one will be bid for the likes of Wood or Cameron. And probably not McDonald, he's achieved nothing in championship as of yet.

I think we will keep hold of the other youngsters who have been nothing better than average all season. How many goals have Thomas and Bigirimana scored this season. None!

Only players likely to be sold are Keogh (probably £250k) and McPake (£0 -£100k).

Otis · Apr 18, 2012

banbury_skyblue said:
No-one will be bid for the likes of Wood or Cameron. And probably not McDonald, he's achieved nothing in championship as of yet.

I think we will keep hold of the other youngsters who have been nothing better than average all season. How many goals have Thomas and Bigirimana scored this season. None!

Only players likely to be sold are Keogh (probably £250k) and McPake (£0 -£100k).

But why do you say that? We have to sell players to generate money. £350,000 won't even cover more than a number of weeks. We have to sell. Juke was sold apparently for 1.3 m and yet we are still losing money had over first. We now havn't got anyone approaching anywhere near that kind of money, so to generate that sort of amount we would have to sell 6 or 7 players.

Why would we only be likely to sell two players whose total income to the club would be a paltry £350,000? Sorry, but that's crazy. Sisu will sell whoever they get offers for for and whatever amount of players it takes to generate some cash.

And Brighton, I did say loans coming in where the parent club would be paying the majority of the wages.

NuneatonSkyBlue · Apr 18, 2012

Astute said:
... Owners with money will be able to get past the rules though. Lets say we have a rich owner. His company could sponsor the team for lets say 20m a year. If the clubs are allowed to spend say 60% of income on wages this will leave 12m for this. The other problem I see is that the big clubs will get bigger as they can afford wages well above what the smaller well run clubs can't, even if they have the money in the bank. All the best players will end up at the big clubs.

Exactly what Leicester's owners have done then. They're all set up for the big time if this is the case

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

NuneatonSkyBlue said:
Exactly what Leicester's owners have done then. They're all set up for the big time if this is the case

Man City have tried to get past it with the use of stadium naming rights.

And you will be sure that UEFA will be working to close the loopholes.

The reality is though, there is no wealthy owner wanting us

NuneatonSkyBlue · Apr 18, 2012

TommyAtkins said:
... And you will be sure that UEFA will be working to close the loopholes.

The reality is though, there is no wealthy owner wanting us

Im pretty sure they won't be able to close all the loopholes surely because then that would end up taking all sponsorship money out of football to stop tactics like these.

And yes all this is pretty irrelevant to us because we haven't got a wealthy owner.

WestEndAgro · Apr 18, 2012

Otis said:
But why do you say that? We have to sell players to generate money. £350,000 won't even cover more than a number of weeks. We have to sell. Juke was sold apparently for 1.3 m and yet we are still losing money had over first. We now havn't got anyone approaching anywhere near that kind of money, so to generate that sort of amount we would have to sell 6 or 7 players.

Why would we only be likely to sell two players whose total income to the club would be a paltry £350,000? Sorry, but that's crazy. Sisu will sell whoever they get offers for for and whatever amount of players it takes to generate some cash.

And Brighton, I did say loans coming in where the parent club would be paying the majority of the wages.

I stated a while back, that Juke didn't belong to the club, he had been purchased by "investors" who wanted their money back, hence Juke being sold, but the Monet not being reinvested.

TommyAtkins · Apr 18, 2012

WestEndAgro said:
I stated a while back, that Juke didn't belong to the club, he had been purchased by "investors" who wanted their money back, hence Juke being sold, but the Monet not being reinvested.

Which, you may recall, is one of the reasons we had to sell Robbie Keane......

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 18, 2012

banbury_skyblue said:
No-one will be bid for the likes of Wood or Cameron. And probably not McDonald, he's achieved nothing in championship as of yet.

I think we will keep hold of the other youngsters who have been nothing better than average all season. How many goals have Thomas and Bigirimana scored this season. None!

Only players likely to be sold are Keogh (probably £250k) and McPake (£0 -£100k).

Thomas scored at Blackpool

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 18, 2012

Otis said:
But why do you say that? We have to sell players to generate money. £350,000 won't even cover more than a number of weeks. We have to sell. Juke was sold apparently for 1.3 m and yet we are still losing money had over first. We now havn't got anyone approaching anywhere near that kind of money, so to generate that sort of amount we would have to sell 6 or 7 players.

Why would we only be likely to sell two players whose total income to the club would be a paltry £350,000? Sorry, but that's crazy. Sisu will sell whoever they get offers for for and whatever amount of players it takes to generate some cash.

And Brighton, I did say loans coming in where the parent club would be paying the majority of the wages.

I did acknowledge that

The reality will really kick in in League One (2 Viewers)

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