The official NFL Thread (2 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 14, 2023

tisza said:
But it stops a permanent status quo.
Middle market teams can compete with the large market teams as finance is equal. Everyone starts with the same cap.
everyone (in theory) starts with a minimum of 7 draft picks.
You can be poor for a couple of seasons but then have a chance to win/compete.
56 Superbowls only 4 teams haven't made one and that includes 2 "newer" franchises.20 different teams have won a superbowl. Few (if any) team sports come close to that level of "equality".

But would you be happy that a club like Coventry, no matter how well run it was, would never have a chance to become part of that? If we were one of those teams doing well and us as fans were generating lots of revenue, would you be happy that the club couldn't take advantage of that? Given that there would be a cap on how much could be spent wouldn't the extra revenue just end up in the pockets of the owners?

Franchises are little more than a money making machine for owners and the league, who would just say, support the team or we'll move them somewhere else that will spend more money"?

As I said there are ways that you can create a more level playing field by stopping clubs getting too much of an advantage through hoarding players etc. If they have to release players that aren't in their squad, and also mean more of the younger players having to join lower teams rather than being kept in U23's, or loaned out so the parent club gets the advantage of that players progression (often with a fee involved for the privilege). They even tend to be able to sell these youngsters for inflated prices just because they have the fact they came through at Man Utd/City/Liverpool etc.

I'm not against a club that is being well run and attracting support/revenue being able to benefit from that performance by being able to pay higher wages, though I am against teams being elevated to that status due to the wealth of their owners. What I'm against is the entire process being in the favour of the big clubs so they can hoard players and sign decent ones from smaller teams for a pittance yet sell their own for inflated prices.

tisza · Mar 14, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But would you be happy that a club like Coventry, no matter how well run it was, would never have a chance to become part of that? If we were one of those teams doing well and us as fans were generating lots of revenue, would you be happy that the club couldn't take advantage of that? Given that there would be a cap on how much could be spent wouldn't the extra revenue just end up in the pockets of the owners?

Franchises are little more than a money making machine for owners and the league, who would just say, support the team or we'll move them somewhere else that will spend more money"?

As I said there are ways that you can create a more level playing field by stopping clubs getting too much of an advantage through hoarding players etc. If they have to release players that aren't in their squad, and also mean more of the younger players having to join lower teams rather than being kept in U23's, or loaned out so the parent club gets the advantage of that players progression (often with a fee involved for the privilege). They even tend to be able to sell these youngsters for inflated prices just because they have the fact they came through at Man Utd/City/Liverpool etc.

I'm not against a club that is being well run and attracting support/revenue being able to benefit from that performance by being able to pay higher wages, though I am against teams being elevated to that status due to the wealth of their owners. What I'm against is the entire process being in the favour of the big clubs so they can hoard players and sign decent ones from smaller teams for a pittance yet sell their own for inflated prices.

I'm not making any comparisons with football. Completely different setup. NFL has a controlled built-in feeder system - college football which is a huge product in its own right.
Little of what works in NFL would work in football. To start you've only got 32 professional teams in a country with a population of around 330 million. Football has no professionally organized feeder system. There isn't a transfer market as such in NFL - obviously there are trades but operating within the restrictions of a salary cap and the currency used isn't a financial one rather trade picks.
I wouldn't limit football finances in terms of spending or wages just in the way debt is structured - on the owners rather than the clubs for example.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 15, 2023

tisza said:
I'm not making any comparisons with football. Completely different setup. NFL has a controlled built-in feeder system - college football which is a huge product in its own right.
Little of what works in NFL would work in football. To start you've only got 32 professional teams in a country with a population of around 330 million. Football has no professionally organized feeder system. There isn't a transfer market as such in NFL - obviously there are trades but operating within the restrictions of a salary cap and the currency used isn't a financial one rather trade picks.
I wouldn't limit football finances in terms of spending or wages just in the way debt is structured - on the owners rather than the clubs for example.

Fair enough. I just find it odd that the most popular sport in a country that extols capitalism has restrictions set in place to allow a level playing field that would seem quite socialist in nature.

tisza · Mar 15, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Fair enough. I just find it odd that the most popular sport in a country that extols capitalism has restrictions set in place to allow a level playing field that would seem quite socialist in nature.

Could be argued it's a capitalist approach from the NFL and teams as it maximizes earnings through being a competitive national sport. It keeps it very much a national game due to the ability of every team having the potential to be relevant on a fairly frequent basis.
One of the reasons baseball has suffered is lack of a hard cap and some teams being able to dominate financially. National appeal keeps falling.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 15, 2023

tisza said:
Could be argued it's a capitalist approach from the NFL and teams as it maximizes earnings through being a competitive national sport. It keeps it very much a national game due to the ability of every team having the potential to be relevant on a fairly frequent basis.
One of the reasons baseball has suffered is lack of a hard cap and some teams being able to dominate financially. National appeal keeps falling.

Football is a bigger earner worldwide yet on the whole works of an almost completely opposite approach. The thing they both know how to do is sell themselves well. I think football can be immensely boring at the top levels nowadays, but it still seems to attract an ever increasing number of followers.

And does it maximise earnings? They've spent the last decade or more trying to increase the international following because they've saturated the home market. A global game has a chance of attracting a global audience.

PL sells itself on being able to bring in the best because it can afford huge transfer fees and wages. NFL sells itself on a salary cap that allows even a poor team to win the following season. It's far more about marketing effectiveness than the set-up.

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 15, 2023

Rodgers to the jets

Yank · Mar 15, 2023

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Rodgers to the jets

Not really that surprised, and the Jets should at the very least make the playoffs with him under center. Will still be tough with the Bills and Dolphins especially improving mind, but doable.

Jags fan myself just as an FYI to all haha.

tisza · Mar 15, 2023

Terry Gibson's perm said:
Rodgers to the jets

worth a punt with that young roster but not sure an old Rodgers is the same as an old Brady - different personalities / leadership traits

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 15, 2023

Mayfield to the Bucs

CCFCSteve · Mar 16, 2023

The Lamar Jackson situation is the most fascinating for me. Bizarre

tisza · Mar 16, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
The Lamar Jackson situation is the most fascinating for me. Bizarre

Does not having an agent hinder him?
I get the Ravens POV - the Deshaun Watson contract was an absolute joke and a nightmare for teams. Fully guaranteed money etc - It was ridiculous when the Vikings did for Cousins and they've refused to do it since because it was such a bad idea.
But guaranteeing 250 million plus to someone who has missed games through injury (missed 25% of last 2 seasons) is daft and he's not going to be running the ball so much in 3 - 4 years time either.
Again it's a cap league and paying a QB that much of your cap is going to limit your team anyway
He's just inside top 10 QBs but looking to get paid as 1st or 2nd.
QBs should be the highest paid on the team but teams are overpaying - hello Vikings, Cowboys, Saints, Broncos, Cardinals,Giants and a few others.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 16, 2023

tisza said:
Does not having an agent hinder him?
I get the Ravens POV - the Deshaun Watson contract was an absolute joke and a nightmare for teams. Fully guaranteed money etc - It was ridiculous when the Vikings did for Cousins and they've refused to do it since because it was such a bad idea.
But guaranteeing 250 million plus to someone who has missed games through injury (missed 25% of last 2 seasons) is daft and he's not going to be running the ball so much in 3 - 4 years time either.
Again it's a cap league and paying a QB that much of your cap is going to limit your team anyway
He's just inside top 10 QBs but looking to get paid as 1st or 2nd.
QBs should be the highest paid on the team but teams are overpaying - hello Vikings, Cowboys, Saints, Broncos, Cardinals,Giants and a few others.

None seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Brady was never the highest paid QB and so the team had money to buy him protection/targets. And he's still incredibly rich. I think a fair few need to consider whether their motivation is money or championships.

tisza · Mar 16, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
None seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Brady was never the highest paid QB and so the team had money to buy him protection/targets. And he's still incredibly rich. I think a fair few need to consider whether their motivation is money or championships.

Before Mahomes this year no team had won the superbowl paying the QB more than 13% of their salary cap.

CCFCSteve · Mar 16, 2023

tisza said:
Does not having an agent hinder him?
I get the Ravens POV - the Deshaun Watson contract was an absolute joke and a nightmare for teams. Fully guaranteed money etc - It was ridiculous when the Vikings did for Cousins and they've refused to do it since because it was such a bad idea.
But guaranteeing 250 million plus to someone who has missed games through injury (missed 25% of last 2 seasons) is daft and he's not going to be running the ball so much in 3 - 4 years time either.
Again it's a cap league and paying a QB that much of your cap is going to limit your team anyway
He's just inside top 10 QBs but looking to get paid as 1st or 2nd.
QBs should be the highest paid on the team but teams are overpaying - hello Vikings, Cowboys, Saints, Broncos, Cardinals,Giants and a few others.

Many suggesting that if he’d had an agent a couple of years ago he’d already have earned 30-40m more already (can make that 50-60m left on table if he plays under franchise tag this year) . Listening to various commentators highlighting this and things like the endorsements he missed out on post 2019 MPV, the need to restructure contract in future etc, not wanting to pay an agent appears short sighted. I say that as someone who has no time for a lot of agents in football/soccer

The fact he’s now missed 25%+ games in past two season is not going to help his position. Browns appears a one off but maybe someone’s desperate enough

tisza · Mar 20, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
Many suggesting that if he’d had an agent a couple of years ago he’d already have earned 30-40m more already (can make that 50-60m left on table if he plays under franchise tag this year) . Listening to various commentators highlighting this and things like the endorsements he missed out on post 2019 MPV, the need to restructure contract in future etc, not wanting to pay an agent appears short sighted. I say that as someone who has no time for a lot of agents in football/soccer

The fact he’s now missed 25%+ games in past two season is not going to help his position. Browns appears a one off but maybe someone’s desperate enough

He's actually stuck. Teams would have to clear a load of cap space (that most don't have) then if Baltimore match the offer they've potentially wrecked themeselves for nothing. So teams have to offer something so outrageous Baltimore wouldn't match it and then they've probably overpaid too much.
Jackson isn't that much of a difference maker over last few seasons to blow things up for -better hunting the draft for a much cheaper option as there are few contenders atm that are just a QB short - assuming Rodgers goes to the Jets

Terry Gibson's perm · Mar 26, 2023

Bobby Wagner is back in Seattle.

tisza · Mar 27, 2023

So Jackson asks for a trade. Is anyone going to pay what he is demanding? Massive risk, potentially high reward. Talented, run is a big part of his game but injuries are mounting up, it's a huge cost (if he gets fully guaranteed) in a salary cap sport. Could cripple a franchise for years if he got injured early on.

David O'Day · Mar 27, 2023

tisza said:
So Jackson asks for a trade. Is anyone going to pay what he is demanding? Massive risk, potentially high reward. Talented, run is a big part of his game but injuries are mounting up, it's a huge cost (if he gets fully guaranteed) in a salary cap sport. Could cripple a franchise for years if he got injured early on.

The teams that are that desperate for a QB, can they really justify blowing that up on one player as it doesn't leave much left for the other positions.

tisza · Mar 28, 2023

David O'Day said:
The teams that are that desperate for a QB, can they really justify blowing that up on one player as it doesn't leave much left for the other positions.

Vikings made this mistake in 2018 when they gave Cousins a fully guaranteed contract as they thought they were a Qb away from winning a superbowl. Influenced everything Vikings have done since then.
If the sums mentioned are correct and the fully
guaranteed part then it's going to be a dumb owner rather than a smart GM that pushes a deal through.
Jackson had a stellar MVP year in 2019. But Ravens had a near full probowl o line protecting him and a very good defense.

CCFCSteve · Mar 28, 2023

tisza said:
Vikings made this mistake in 2018 when they gave Cousins a fully guaranteed contract as they thought they were a Qb away from winning a superbowl. Influenced everything Vikings have done since then.
If the sums mentioned are correct and the fully
guaranteed part then it's going to be a dumb owner rather than a smart GM that pushes a deal through.
Jackson had a stellar MVP year in 2019. But Ravens had a near full probowl o line protecting him and a very good defense.

Agreed …and we’re now 3-4 years of punishment on and two injuries that have limited his appearances late season. The thing is he’d still get an amazing contract which could be life changing for his and his family for generations…guaranteed just appears unrealistic unless some gets very desperate

David O'Day · Mar 28, 2023

tisza said:
Vikings made this mistake in 2018 when they gave Cousins a fully guaranteed contract as they thought they were a Qb away from winning a superbowl. Influenced everything Vikings have done since then.
If the sums mentioned are correct and the fully
guaranteed part then it's going to be a dumb owner rather than a smart GM that pushes a deal through.
Jackson had a stellar MVP year in 2019. But Ravens had a near full probowl o line protecting him and a very good defense.

if rumours are true that could be kraft vs belichick

tisza · Mar 28, 2023

CCFCSteve said:
Agreed …and we’re now 3-4 years of punishment on and two injuries that have limited his appearances late season. The thing is he’d still get an amazing contract which could be life changing for his and his family for generations…guaranteed just appears unrealistic unless some gets very desperate

Problem is players are going to believe the Watson contract should be the norm rather than the outlier/mess that most non-players believe it is.
Pay Jackson what he wants and you're not going to be able to fund elite receivers & tackles for example that he needs to succeed - unless you can get them for a short while on rookie contracts

tisza · Mar 28, 2023

David O'Day said:
if rumours are true that could be kraft vs belichick

That could be a case where Belicick would walk as that signing would go against everything he believes

David O'Day · Mar 28, 2023

tisza said:
That could be a case where Belicick would walk as that signing would go against everything he believes

it's what jackson wants as well it seems

Lamar Jackson wants to join the Patriots, according to a text from Meek Mill to Robert Kraft

Rumor season is in full swing.

www.patspulpit.com

i do also like the use of rappers as go betweens

tisza · Apr 14, 2023

Could Commanders finally be seeing the end of the toxic Snyder regime?

tisza · Apr 25, 2023

Jets taking the shot.

tisza · Apr 30, 2023

Another draft done. Always a chance to cast envious looks at what other teams have done. Vikings get a B but had little to work with. Add in they traded a 2nd for a top TE and it probably moves to a B+. Going to be some surprise cuts/trades coming - Dalvin Cook looks on his way out.

Darth Robins · Apr 30, 2023

People are no doubt going to whinge about us taking a running back in the 2nd again but I think Seattle have absolutely smashed their draft for a second year running. That offense is going to be so explosive this year with the thunder and lightning RB's and a frankly ridiculous WR group.

Taking a corner at 5th overall was a little surprising because we've never taken one above the third round before, but after seeing his college play, I'm real excited for him, Pete actually compared him to Troy Polamalu which is about the highest honour he can give someone, I think.
I can see us competing with San Fran for the division, maybe even the conference. I certainly wouldn't have expected that a year ago!

Si80 · Jun 22, 2023

Anyone else manage to get tickets today for the UK games at Spurs? Managed to grab Ravens vs Titans tickets after the shitshow of a website that is Ticketmaster sorted itself out.

CJ_covblaze · Jun 22, 2023

Si80 said:
Anyone else manage to get tickets today for the UK games at Spurs? Managed to grab Ravens vs Titans tickets after the shitshow of a website that is Ticketmaster sorted itself out.

Got Jags Bills.

tisza · Jun 22, 2023

CJ_covblaze said:
Got Jags Bills.

that could be a really good game

Mucca Mad Boys · Jun 22, 2023

I got Jags v Falcons and Ravens v Titans! I’m hoping to get Chiefs v Dolphins in Frankfurt for my Brother’s birthday - he’s a Chiefs fan!

Otis · Jun 22, 2023

I'm a Washington fan, so hoping they don't come over at all to be honest

tisza · Jul 12, 2023

This season's Hard Knocks is the Jets. Could be a good one with Rodgers etc

tisza · Sep 5, 2023

Time to go again.
Secretly hoping Vikings defense continues to have a nightmare so we can have a losing season in order to draft a QB.
Heading slowly into a disaster with cap issues and Jefferson & Darrisaw still to get paid. Can't afford another Cousins extension no matter how well he is playing.

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