The Hoffman bid (2 Viewers)

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Mar 25, 2019

I’ve been seeing comparisons to what Hoffman’s bid is compared to what other clubs are going for.

I was chatting to someone at the Oxford game, and discussed the offer. I’d say things like Port Vale, Wolves and Villa (who’s sale prices have been noted on here) are unrepresentative - wolves and Villa went for their prices, and both clubs were loaded with debt.

We know we’re loaded with artificial SISU debt, but we’re not losing money. With that being said - doesn’t that mean we’re two fluke promotions away from a £150 Million pay day. If you’re not losing money then surely they see it worth holding on to, on the above gamble? If it goes tits up - then hasn’t Hoffman made it well known that he isn’t going away? So a 7 Million bid is always there or even more based on Elliot’s recent comments?

Alkhen · Mar 25, 2019

Not sure it's related but haven't the club got a 10% stake in any future sale of Callum Wilson.

SISU aren't in a rush there is good money potentially in a couple of our squad and Wilson's clause could be a a big pay day.

Conservatively say he goes for around 35m that's half the reported Hoffman bid already. It wasn't long ago he was linked with 50-70m moves. Will definitely go somewhere in the summer

Magwitch · Mar 25, 2019

The two fluke promotions and potential £150million quid payday are light years away unless sisu withdraw the legals

SkyBlueZack · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
The two fluke promotions and potential £150million quid payday are light years away unless sisu withdraw the legals

So now promotion is dependent on legals being dropped?

Ashdown · Mar 25, 2019

We won't get higher than we are now with SISU. The only way is down or status quo with these Sharks as their monetary stance creates a glass ceiling ( not saying other owners would advance us either unless very rich ) and whilst Robins has done ok, he hasn't got the credentials to pull off miracles either. If we play at a non league ground though, expect relegation fairly soon after

Magwitch · Mar 25, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
So now promotion is dependent on legals being dropped?

No, beating lowly teams like Oxford at home does.

Winny the Bish · Mar 25, 2019

SISU don't NEED to sell. This is why Coventry are so different to other clubs situations. You hold an investment while it slumps and don't immediately sell when things start to look better (i.e edge of L1 Playoffs)

SkyBlueZack · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
No, beating lowly teams like Oxford at home does.

You inferred promotion is light years away if the legal action continues? Then decide it’s to do with beating teams like Oxford. Which is true of course. Promotion is dependent on if we are better than others at football, not whether we’re in court or not.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 25, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
You inferred promotion is light years away if the legal action continues? Then decide it’s to do with beating teams like Oxford. Which is true of course. Promotion is dependent on if we are better than others at football, not whether we’re in court or not.

Of course, court is a distraction from the football...

SkyBlueZack · Mar 25, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Of course, court is a distraction from the football...

Wasn’t last season....

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 25, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
Wasn’t last season....

We only finished sixth in the bottom division last season. That's not exactly showing how off-field doesn't impact on the club.

And it's to Robins's credit that it didn't impact more...

torchomatic · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
The two fluke promotions and potential £150million quid payday are light years away unless sisu withdraw the legals

Don't agree with that at all.

SkyBlueZack · Mar 25, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
We only finished sixth in the bottom division last season. That's not exactly showing how off-field doesn't impact on the club.

And it's to Robins's credit that it didn't impact more...

And this season? We seem to struggle more being a young team than because of legal distractions.

Magwitch · Mar 25, 2019

torchomatic said:
Don't agree with that at all.

Good, so where do we play next season then ?

chiefdave · Mar 25, 2019

The value is what SISU will sell for. It doesn't matter what any other club sells for.

Warwickhunt · Mar 25, 2019

The £65 Million debt doesnt just go away from your books by selling CCFC! Someone has to Buy the club and carry the debt with it. Offering them £7 or £20 million will not make them budge! they need to wipe their faces when they let it go

Magwitch · Mar 25, 2019

Warwickhunt said:
The £65 Million debt doesnt just go away from your books by selling CCFC! Someone has to Buy the club and carry the debt with it. Offering them £7 or £20 million will not make them budge! they need to wipe their faces when they let it go

Who is the debt too though apart from sisu companies ?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
Who is the debt too though apart from sisu companies ?

That’s the thing though. There is no external debt is there?

Like I said they don’t really need to sell, can put it on the back burner and hope for 2 promotions.

Mucca Mad Boys · Mar 25, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
And this season? We seem to struggle more being a young team than because of legal distractions.

We’ve struggled at times because we can’t finish our chances.

These are all professional athletes, I don’t think the off-field stuff affects them at all really. It’s not like we’re facing a points deduction where that potentially affects the players.

ceetee · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
Who is the debt too though apart from sisu companies ?

But surely, SISU are an investment business so the money owed to SISU companies is in fact SISU's investor's money at risk. As long as that debt (whether overstated or not) exists, it is an asset on the books. If the debt is not taken over by a new owner that debt becomes a loss to the investors.

If I'm wrong will someone please explain

Warwickhunt · Mar 25, 2019

ceetee said:
But surely, SISU are an investment business so the money owed to SISU companies is in fact SISU's investor's money at risk. As long as that debt (whether overstated or not) exists, it is an asset on the books. If the debt is not taken over by a new owner that debt becomes a loss to the investors.

If I'm wrong will someone please explain

you are absoloutly correct my friend! Only someone buying the debt or Administration/Liquidation will take off their books and as you say their investors would be well Pi$$ed off if that happened.

Magwitch · Mar 25, 2019

Didn’t we have administration 2 or 3 years ago what happened to any debt then ?

Grendel · Mar 25, 2019

SkyBlueZack said:
And this season? We seem to struggle more being a young team than because of legal distractions.

Also Blackpool against huge off field problems abd a decimated squad have exceeded expectations all season

Nick · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
Didn’t we have administration 2 or 3 years ago what happened to any debt then ?

Surely you remember what happened?

Warwickhunt · Mar 25, 2019

Grendel said:
Also Blackpool against huge off field problems abd a decimated squad have exceeded expectations all season

Are they still waiting for their points deduction? or is that only allowed for CCFC or Southampton?

rondog1973 · Mar 25, 2019

There's no such thing as a fluke promotion.

Warwickhunt · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
Didn’t we have administration 2 or 3 years ago what happened to any debt then ?

Same group just moved the debt around! like a bad smell mate it will be with us forever

pastythegreat · Mar 25, 2019

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I’ve been seeing comparisons to what Hoffman’s bid is compared to what other clubs are going for.

I was chatting to someone at the Oxford game, and discussed the offer. I’d say things like Port Vale, Wolves and Villa (who’s sale prices have been noted on here) are unrepresentative - wolves and Villa went for their prices, and both clubs were loaded with debt.

We know we’re loaded with artificial SISU debt, but we’re not losing money. With that being said - doesn’t that mean we’re two fluke promotions away from a £150 Million pay day. If you’re not losing money then surely they see it worth holding on to, on the above gamble? If it goes tits up - then hasn’t Hoffman made it well known that he isn’t going away? So a 7 Million bid is always there or even more based on Elliot’s recent comments?

IF Chelsea buy Callum Wilson for what they have been rumoured to, it's be worth more than £7m in sell on clauses, add to that players like Bayliss and Willis who could both fetch tidy sums. Then Ponticelli, Westbrook, Mason, Wakefield, who are all still young but are investments for the future. Why would you walk away with just £7m when all that above could potentially return double that. And were not currently losing money either so they cam sit happy for a few years and wait it out really.

Ashdown · Mar 25, 2019

pastythegreat said:
IF Chelsea buy Callum Wilson for what they have been rumoured to, it's be worth more than £7m in sell on clauses, add to that players like Bayliss and Willis who could both fetch tidy sums. Then Ponticelli, Westbrook, Mason, Wakefield, who are all still young but are investments for the future. Why would you walk away with just £7m when all that above could potentially return double that. And were not currently losing money either so they cam sit happy for a few years and wait it out really.

I wouldn't be so sure about Bayliss on Saturdays showing, he was bang average and Mason was awful too.

RoboCCFC90 · Mar 25, 2019

Ashdown said:
We won't get higher than we are now with SISU. The only way is down or status quo with these Sharks as their monetary stance creates a glass ceiling ( not saying other owners would advance us either unless very rich ) and whilst Robins has done ok, he hasn't got the credentials to pull off miracles either. If we play at a non league ground though, expect relegation fairly soon after

Fans were saying this last year, therefore I don't actually believe this. The quickest way for SISU to make money from CCFC is by being successful, sitting still and not advancing makes no sense.

CCFC88 · Mar 25, 2019

Ashdown said:
I wouldn't be so sure about Bayliss on Saturdays showing, he was bang average and Mason was awful too.

Yea, I think you're right, an average performance in one L1 game will put off potential buyers. Give your head a wobble.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2019

Just a few things.

Ccfc does not owe 65m

Sisu have not used 65m to invest

Not all the loans are manufactured or artificial.

ARVO and Sisu master fund are owed 9m plus interest and are legally third parties. These debts are external. It represents money from the investors in those two funds

Ccfc be it the old set up or otium has not made profits or been profitable for decades - that has not changed. Losses in 2017 and 2018 were over 2.5m pa.... interest due cannot be ignored in calculating profits. The only reason the club has been cashflow positive is the extra money ARVO or sisu master fund have put in

The level of debt has grown annually.

What the bid sought to acquire was the football assets less the football debts. If you buy the shares of the company you buy all assets less all liabilities (including the loans) there is a difference. You would be mad or stupid to buy the shares of otium and even more so to buy the sbs&l group

You do not need to buy or take anything from sbs&l so the 28m owed in there which is unsecured is irrelevant

If you buy the assets of otium the proceeds would be used to repay the loans that otium has by otium

In terms of investor valuation then ccfc is probably already written down to nil. It would be assessed annually in the investment report.

What sisu are after is a ransom payment which has no relationship to company value or even football assets less football liabilities or what other clubs were sold for

The cost of getting to the premier league is massive even by fluke so must be deducted from any gain. Who is going to finance that cost to be able to get to that gain? You pay out 10s of millions before you get the gains

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2019

Magwitch said:
Didn’t we have administration 2 or 3 years ago what happened to any debt then ?

It was moved to otium and converted in to preference shares

ceetee · Mar 25, 2019

I am not as confident as some that Callum Wilson will provide a big pay day.
Unless Harry Kane breaks his leg I can't see him getting much game time for England who now have younger, and probably more exciting prospects.
He might well move to a bigger club but he may have reached a stage where his value starts to decline rather than increase.
I may of course be wrong .

oldskyblue58 · Mar 25, 2019

Future earnings from player sales are football assets. So by allowing a company that no longer has rights to them to take the proceeds then new co would be making a payment. At present any such sale is speculation and has no real value so has no real value in the bid. It may not happen.... having pulled that trick and profited from it when they came in sisu will want certainty not what ifs. They will want hard cash now or a binding scheme of payments over a short time

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