The future of the club (1 Viewer)

Happy_Martian · Jan 5, 2022

I know we don't all agree on how SiSu have made the club run more financially efficient but the losses do seem to have stabilized to a point where we can start looking up rather than down. And while I can accept MR and AV have done a lot with the squad, some recognition should be given to Dave Boddy as well. He wasn't the most popular acquisition we've made but he was a dozen steps better than his predecessor (and more fan friendly to talk to). The success we're having currently is down to all the club pulling their weight. I'm sure even Beryl the Tea Lady warrants a thanks every now and again

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

Happy_Martian said:
I know we don't all agree on how SiSu have made the club run more financially efficient but the losses do seem to have stabilized to a point where we can start looking up rather than down. And while I can accept MR and AV have done a lot with the squad, some recognition should be given to Dave Boddy as well. He wasn't the most popular acquisition we've made but he was a dozen steps better than his predecessor (and more fan friendly to talk to). The success we're having currently is down to all the club pulling their weight. I'm sure even Beryl the Tea Lady warrants a thanks every now and again

His job was to better sell the leeching of funds from high interest loans

clint van damme · Jan 5, 2022

robbiethemole said:
Surely we're better placed than a lot of clubs tho due to leasing St Andrews, we didn't have all the overheads and outgoings like maintenance and staffing costs, we only had wages of players and some staff to cover. I think we are probably one of the least affected clubs during the covid.

Maybe. But it's clear our squad is paper thin in terms of players equipped for this league.

I'm not advocating spunking millions but we clearly need 2 or 3 more players of championship calibre. Its not much to ask and given how far Robins has bought us surely he deserves to be given the tools he needs.

better days · Jan 5, 2022

We are owned by a hedge fund
They've recently made astute decisions in appointing the management team and letting them get on with things within their budget
But all hedge funds buy businesses with a view to turning them round and eventually selling it on
As things stand we are one of the best run clubs in the Championship and will be in a very good position as others try to emerge from the fallout from Covid
Let's enjoy it while we can

Sky Blue Harry H · Jan 5, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There’s living within your means and there’s the owners helping themselves with high interest loans to maintain the club’s debt to them. This is the problem with ‘just happy to be here’

I get what you are saying, but I don't think the 'just happy to be here' thing has any relevance. I'm happy to be in the Championship. I'd be happy to be in the PL. but if promoted you could then say 'are you happy just to be surviving in the PL' as if there is something that anyone can do about it. Either the football financial pyramid needs dismantling, or Sheikh Alottamoney needs to buy us. Whether I'm fuming that we're potentially as high as we can get, or happy with the situation has no bearing on anything. Go on the Leicester City forum (not long PL champions) and they've been gnashing and wailing about everything over the last 12 months. It's just what fans do. That's why I quite like the idea of it being about the journey (experiences) versus the 'destination' - as there will always be 'next season'

Northants Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

As @Deity said on the Jan window thread

"With 2 or 3 quality loans...the club could challenge for the play offs.
This is exactly the sort of situation VC’s love. A controlled roll of the dice with huge potential upside"

Seppala has to answer to investors but you'd hope the limited outlay justifies a gamble

Londonccfcfan · Jan 5, 2022

clint van damme said:
I'm serious. No matter how good your recruitment is every club will have seasons where they get it wrong, if you keep trying to eke out bargains and operate on a low budget then when it does go wrong you're in trouble.

It won't be Robins fault.

Robin's prides himself on improving players. Hes a good coach. He adds value and makes our young promising players better.

Our recruitment team is also good and has stepped up at every level.

Not a simplistic model.

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

Happy_Martian said:
I know we don't all agree on how SiSu have made the club run more financially efficient but the losses do seem to have stabilized to a point where we can start looking up rather than down. And while I can accept MR and AV have done a lot with the squad, some recognition should be given to Dave Boddy as well. He wasn't the most popular acquisition we've made but he was a dozen steps better than his predecessor (and more fan friendly to talk to). The success we're having currently is down to all the club pulling their weight. I'm sure even Beryl the Tea Lady warrants a thanks every now and again

Boddy has done nothing - he is just a Sisu message boy

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

Londonccfcfan said:
Robin's prides himself on improving players. Hes a good coach. He adds value and makes our young promising players better.

Our recruitment team is also good and has stepped up at every level.

Not a simplistic model.

Robins isn't a coach and the transfers that have kept the club running have been nothing to do with him - Have we made a profit on any player he signed - he did not sign McCallum.

Its a very simple model. Sisu invest nothing and fund high interest short term loans when required and will adjust to whatever league we are in

Sky Blue Harry H · Jan 5, 2022

I think clubs who are 'safe' but unlikely to challenge for play offs (e.g. a PNE type team) ought to be looking at pushing through their own younger talent to see who looks as though they can step up or not. I don't see the point in getting in loans when you have to fork out money for no reward - 7th down to 21st makes no difference in financial reward, although those at the extremities will be fighting for play offs/avoiding relegation. Those in the middle though - why waste ££££s developing other team's players? Swansea will have paid Man Utd for Ethan Laird, just to see Bournemouth buy him in the January window (parachute payments). I'd sooner see if Eccles. JJ et al can step up then adjust accordingly in the summer (all assuming we don't make the play offs and triumph at Wembley!)

CCFCSteve · Jan 5, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There’s living within your means and there’s the owners helping themselves with high interest loans to maintain the club’s debt to them. This is the problem with ‘just happy to be here’

Agree with this. If it’s a case of having to sell players to reivest as LG mentions or even to cover higher wage bill, so be it. I don’t expect the owners to plough millions in unless they are confident of getting it back. What is unacceptable is operating on a shoestring and then dipping in the pot to cover their own high interest payments

As has been mentioned by a few posters, if ever there was a time to gamble a couple of million it’s now. Even an unsuccessful play off run or mini cup run would probably pay them back most/all of that through extra crowds and tv cash. They either trust Robins or they don’t.

Wyken Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

Grendel said:
Have we made a profit on any player he signed - he did not sign McCallum.

We haven't sold O'Hare or Hamer yet...

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

better days said:
We are owned by a hedge fund
They've recently made astute decisions in appointing the management team and letting them get on with things within their budget
But all hedge funds buy businesses with a view to turning them round and eventually selling it on
As things stand we are one of the best run clubs in the Championship and will be in a very good position as others try to emerge from the fallout from Covid
Let's enjoy it while we can

I agree with a lot you say put I can’t agree with a word of this if I’m honest

clint van damme · Jan 5, 2022

skyblue1991 said:
We haven't sold O'Hare or Hamer yet...

Or Vik. I'd say Moore must be worth a few Bob as well, especially after Ramseys glowing reference at the weekend

slowpoke · Jan 5, 2022

Think the bottom line is how much hard cash would it take to get sisu to cash in.

SAJ · Jan 5, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
There’s living within your means and there’s the owners helping themselves with high interest loans to maintain the club’s debt to them. This is the problem with ‘just happy to be here’

What interest rate are we been charged at then?

slowpoke · Jan 5, 2022

SAJ said:
What interest rate are we been charged at then?

I’m sure I have read somewhere 16%

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

better days said:
We are owned by a hedge fund
They've recently made astute decisions in appointing the management team and letting them get on with things within their budget
But all hedge funds buy businesses with a view to turning them round and eventually selling it on
As things stand we are one of the best run clubs in the Championship and will be in a very good position as others try to emerge from the fallout from Covid
Let's enjoy it while we can

Do hedge funds tend to hang around for 15 years though?

SAJ · Jan 5, 2022

slowpoke said:
I’m sure I have read somewhere 16%

Wow if that’s right it’s astronomical.

SBAndy · Jan 5, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
Agree with this. If it’s a case of having to sell players to reivest as LG mentions or even to cover higher wage bill, so be it. I don’t expect the owners to plough millions in unless they are confident of getting it back. What is unacceptable is operating on a shoestring and then dipping in the pot to cover their own high interest payments

As has been mentioned by a few posters, if ever there was a time to gamble a couple of million it’s now. Even an unsuccessful play off run or mini cup run would probably pay them back most/all of that through extra crowds and tv cash. They either trust Robins or they don’t.

This is about the extent of it. I like the idea of running quite sustainably and I’m not really interested in having monster losses underwritten like the Coates family do with Stoke. If we could outperform that then so be it, likewise if we dropped down the league or were relegated then so be it. With the seeming lack of investment this window (only going off what has been said) then I can’t see much justification for covering interest payments to the detriment of the team.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

SBAndy said:
This is about the extent of it. I like the idea of running quite sustainably and I’m not really interested in having monster losses underwritten like the Coates family do with Stoke. If we could outperform that then so be it, likewise if we dropped down the league or were relegated then so be it. With the seeming lack of investment this window (only going off what has been said) then I can’t see much justification for covering interest payments to the detriment of the team.

There is a difference too between wanting Stoke or Derby style spending, and wanting any surplus money put back into the side instead of paying down a debt that doesn’t seem to get smaller because of the interest.

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

SAJ said:
Wow if that’s right it’s astronomical.

I think there are two separate funds Arvo and Sisu capital - one is around 17% the other 11%

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

SBAndy said:
This is about the extent of it. I like the idea of running quite sustainably and I’m not really interested in having monster losses underwritten like the Coates family do with Stoke. If we could outperform that then so be it, likewise if we dropped down the league or were relegated then so be it. With the seeming lack of investment this window (only going off what has been said) then I can’t see much justification for covering interest payments to the detriment of the team.

So your a more Accrington Stanley type of guy than a Man City one (excluding the fact we are totally unsustainable and need to raise several million in transfer credits to stay alive)

slowpoke · Jan 5, 2022

As has been proved recently there are people around with deep pockets getting into football just had Southampton snapped up, of coarse is it the devil you know rather than don’t but sisu have been dubbed one of the worst football club owners for years just typical of our luck to be saddled with them.

Flying Fokker · Jan 5, 2022

Londonccfcfan said:
Could only have dreamed of existing in the championship. There were dark times In last 10 years didnt think we would get back into championship even.

Sad but true. I think the 34 years of the top division was difficult to get over for starters.

Londonccfcfan · Jan 5, 2022

Grendel said:
I agree with a lot you say put I can’t agree with a word of this if I’m honest

Surprise surprise

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

Londonccfcfan said:
Surprise surprise

You clearly worship at the Sisu Temple

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 5, 2022

Flying Fokker said:
Sad but true. I think the 34 years of the top division was difficult to get over for starters.

Growing up in the 90s I still can't get over being seen as a plucky lower league club by most, but if a club in my childhood hadn't played top flight since the early 70s I'd think they were schmucks as well

Travs · Jan 5, 2022

Grendel said:
So your a more Accrington Stanley type of guy than a Man City one (excluding the fact we are totally unsustainable and need to raise several million in transfer credits to stay alive)

Aren't transfer fees used by about 90% of the teams in the pyramid to remain "sustainable"...?

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

Travs said:
Aren't transfer fees used by about 90% of the teams in the pyramid to remain "sustainable"...?

I doubt it is the level of ours in any club in the leagues below the championship is it?

better days · Jan 5, 2022

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Do hedge funds tend to hang around for 15 years though?

Not usually
But instead of turning things round they spent the first 10 years making it worse

Grendel · Jan 5, 2022

better days said:
Not usually
But instead of turning things round they spent the first 10 years making it worse

They haven’t made it better now have they?

better days · Jan 5, 2022

Grendel said:
They haven’t made it better now have they?

Haha you're the greatest G

SBAndy · Jan 5, 2022

Grendel said:
So your a more Accrington Stanley type of guy than a Man City one (excluding the fact we are totally unsustainable and need to raise several million in transfer credits to stay alive)

Transfer credits (or player registration sales as they’re formally known) is still an income stream, and given the type of model we operate - and would have to operate - on they should be viewed as stock sales.

CDK · Jan 5, 2022

clint van damme said:
Just being realistic. I don't think Robins can kee taking us forward without more support.

I understand the logic with the observation

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