Grendel
Well-Known Member
How much share did they lose in the vote?
A Labour victory?
Wasn't Labour supposed to be wiped out? They've put a remain supporter in a leave seat and still won.How much share did they lose in the vote?
Am sure you know when it comes to a by-election such as this, they're onto a loser, given the previous MP was, on a local level, a highly respected and hard-working one who'd served for over 30 years with distinction.How much share did they lose in the vote?
Wasn't Labour supposed to be wiped out? They've put a remain supporter in a leave seat and still won.
Would have thought the key figure for all parties (particularly with a highly charged issue in the news) is the turnout - 37.1%.Amazed no one commenting on last nights election as an inevitable pre cursor of things to come
I have an adopted Hungarian daughter. Married an Italian. Moved to Austria when her kids were 9 and 6. Both boys fluent in Hungarian, Italian, English and German.The younger you are the easier it is. My youngest two should be speaking fluent French well within 6 months.
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You never said what?
Let me know what you didn't say and I will show it to you.
Waste of time?I never said that she has done nothing wrong. I have said so many times what my position is but like normal you put 2+2 together and get 5. Waste of time
Waste of time?
Yet again you have contradicted yourself and try to make out it is me that has done something and that I can't comprehend things.
Did you say that May has failed to sort out Brexit because she hasn't been given the tools? Yes.
Have you constantly had a go at May because she is totally useless? Yes.
Make your mind up. Is it because she hadn't had the tools or because she is a tool?
This is the problem with not minding what you say to have a go at someone. You sometimes contradict yourself. Then you don't have the honesty to admit it. You would prefer to insult me yet again. Thanks.
Have it your way. Can't be bothered with you anymore.No I said she tried her best to get a good deal with bad tools. Every quote of mine you will find on this topic criticises her for practically everything else. There is no contradiction, there never was.
Or do I have to laboriously go through them to prove this is the case. It’s tedious. You have genuinely failed to comprehend the point
Have it your way. Can't be bothered with you anymore.
Previously you had a go at her for everything. Now some of it isn't her fault. I disagree with this. She took it on. She failed. She tried again. She failed. She tried again still not changing anything. She failed. She now wants to try again without changing anything. The EU won't allow another extension without something drastically changing. She wanted Corbyn on board but still to change nothing. Yet it is supposed to be the tools she had. Wrong. It is her being so recalcitrant which is causing most problems.
I think it’s possible to say she’s tried her best whilst also doing a crap job of it. With some of her ministerial appointments she’s essentially been negotiating with one hand tied behind her back, but ultimately it’s her fault for making such appointments.
It was always going to be difficult (for difficult, see nigh-on impossible) to put together a deal that was deemed satisfactory to a cross-section of MPs and their different aims and ambitions, and having set her ‘red lines’ out early in the conversation she has got to a point that resembles some of what Brexiteers wanted but it’s still not enough. The general populace (me included) vastly underestimated how difficult it would be to fully negotiate a position with the EU, and a lot of that is to do with MPs sticking their two-penneth in and hampering negotiations. A thankless task, but largely a shambles.
I think it’s possible to say she’s tried her best whilst also doing a crap job of it. With some of her ministerial appointments she’s essentially been negotiating with one hand tied behind her back, but ultimately it’s her fault for making such appointments.
It was always going to be difficult (for difficult, see nigh-on impossible) to put together a deal that was deemed satisfactory to a cross-section of MPs and their different aims and ambitions, and having set her ‘red lines’ out early in the conversation she has got to a point that resembles some of what Brexiteers wanted but it’s still not enough. The general populace (me included) vastly underestimated how difficult it would be to fully negotiate a position with the EU, and a lot of that is to do with MPs sticking their two-penneth in and hampering negotiations. A thankless task, but largely a shambles.
Yeah...those that think it is easy trying to achieve what she is trying to achieve need not worry about criticising as they will never walk a mile in her shoes. Undoubtedly looks like she has made some bad choices, but based on others' advice probably. To criticise "May's deal" & it's unacceptability is to criticise the EU too...& the whole of Parliament....because only one person gets to be PM. History will put her down as one of the bad ones along with her predecessor. Arrogantly calling a snap election which left her without the parliamentary means to get her own deal through. Trying to get it through the Commons anyway and ignoring it’s being rejected 3 times but denying the people a second vote.
We all get up off our arses every day and do something. And I bet that we do our day jobs considerably better than her and her colleagues do theirs. Standing around in warm rooms eating biscuits and using long words without saying or achieving anything
Well it is - their preferred leader would be chosen on the speculation that their said choice would do a better job. Until they are in the job it wouldn't be proven if they could do any better or not would it?I was asking about their preferred leader, so it’s not speculation at all.
How many on here would play same said game with Terry Fisher's pic gleefully & oh so many others on here would find that humourous?Someone who shoots pictures of the leader of the opposition and the country’s largest political party
Well it is - their preferred leader would be chosen on the speculation that their said choice would do a better job. Until they are in the job it wouldn't be proven if they could do any better or not would it?
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France?
Still waiting for the final word on this fiasco. If this 1 year extension is agreed and everything stays as it is now it is on. You will be my first invite to stay. I have my eye on 3 riverside properties on one plot. It has over an acre of land with half the boundary being a river. And only about 90 minutes away from airports where we could get to a game
So basically what Cameron tried to sell before Rees-Mogg and pals wanted a referendum.Rees-Mogg has just implied that leavers who claim that the U.K. has no power in the EU are talking crap ( this includes himself on other days ). He now claims we have the power to block the budget, block any EU army and any further EU integration. Add that to leavers claiming FOM is bollocks, people can live and work anywhere etc., and you are running out of reasons for leaving the EU. Pity he didn’t point these things out before the vote. The French made blue passports and a 50p commemorative coin aren’t much better reasons for leaving either.
Of course people knew what they were voting for.Her red lines without parliamentary consent, and based on her version of Brexit were doomed to failure from the start. As is Brexit. Whatever happens now, the majority will be unhappy as there is no majority for any kind of Brexit. People claim that people knew what they voted for and that that is the will of the people. No they didn’t and no it isn’t. That is the problem.
Given the turnout it cannot be called a victory, after-all the leavers might have been so disillusioned that the decided not to vote at all. Hardly the will of the people. Nobody knows what they were voting for either as there is no clear way forward at a national level on Brexit...the biggest current issue influencing choice of vote.Wasn't Labour supposed to be wiped out? They've put a remain supporter in a leave seat and still won.
Same thing really...I can't see that we disagree then. We speculate on somebody else doing a better job - we can discuss it until the cows come home. Although at the end of it all, we don't choose who would lead the Tories, whilst even the Tories can decide who leads LabourIt was a simple question about someone’s preferred choice of leader, according to your thinking it would be pointless to discuss possibilities of anything.
Of course people knew what they were voting for.
The thing is nobody voted for the bullshit that has happened since.
How many on here would play same said game with Terry Fisher's pic gleefully & oh so many others on here would find that humourous?
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Yeah...those that think it is easy trying to achieve what she is trying to achieve need not worry about criticising as they will never walk a mile in her shoes. Undoubtedly looks like she has made some bad choices, but based on others' advice probably. To criticise "May's deal" & it's unacceptability is to criticise the EU too...& the whole of Parliament.
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Of course people knew what they were voting for.
The thing is nobody voted for the bullshit that has happened since.
I have a new passport arriving this week.........still purple but most probably without the European Union mark on the front.................If so and we do end up Remaining and they re-instate that mark.........how much could this collectors item be worth in 20 years ???Rees-Mogg has just implied that leavers who claim that the U.K. has no power in the EU are talking crap ( this includes himself on other days ). He now claims we have the power to block the budget, block any EU army and any further EU integration. Add that to leavers claiming FOM is bollocks, people can live and work anywhere etc., and you are running out of reasons for leaving the EU. Pity he didn’t point these things out before the vote. The French made blue passports and a 50p commemorative coin aren’t much better reasons for leaving either.
Which version of leave did 17,4 million agree on? Baring in mind that the government and leave campaign promised a deal that would be good for Britain. Which deal was it?
I have a new passport arriving this week.........still purple but most probably without the European Union mark on the front.................If so and we do end up Remaining and they re-instate that mark.........how much could this collectors item be worth in 20 years ???
I'm pretty sure absolutely no one voted for a deal which would leave the UK in the EU in everything but name which is the only option that May is offering.Which version of leave did 17,4 million agree on? Baring in mind that the government and leave campaign promised a deal that would be good for Britain. Which deal was it?
The EU has an agreement with May that is in the best interest of the EU but not the best interest for the UK. The EU keeps the money rolling in from the UK. The EU keeps selling lots more to the UK than it buys. The only thing that would change mainly would be that May could say she has taken us out of the EU. Freedom of movement would most probably remain. We would most probably still pay for the running of the EU.No it isn’t. May made her red lines and has stuck to them no matter what others think. The EU has made a deal based on what is possible without altering the whole EU to accommodate a third country.
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