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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,181
SkyBlueDom26 said:
There will be no people's vote unless its either no deal or treason mays deal
Click to expand...

See how Corbyn gets on with his meeting with the opposition. They may put pressure on him to do something together. I think the size of the people’s vote march may show the level of support for a new referendum. It will be hard to deny the support if it is even bigger than the last one.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,182
Astute said:
But here is the problem I have.

I need us to stay in the EU. But I respected the result. I wasn't a part of the side who won the referendum. Just like each time the Tories get voted in.

A precedent would be set. If we get a vote on anything they fuck about for a few years without implementing what we have voted for so they get the chance to get the result they wanted first time.

I think my preferred ending to this would be for us to leave the EU but for close ties to remain that are as close as possible to what we have now. But even this isn't a good result for anyone. It just seems the best compromise.
Click to expand...

It isn’t a good result because we will have no say if we are not in it. If we want to stay close we will have to accept regulations without representation.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,183
SkyBlueDom26 said:
And even with this embarrassing walk, the leave campaign still beat the remaoners
Click to expand...
With top bantz like remoaners, it's no surprise.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,184
martcov said:
See how Corbyn gets on with his meeting with the opposition. They may put pressure on him to do something together. I think the size of the people’s vote march may show the level of support for a new referendum. It will be hard to deny the support if it is even bigger than the last one.
Click to expand...

God help us if he was to ever become PM
 
G

Grappa

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,185
Deleted member 5849 said:
With top bantz like remoaners, it's no surprise.
Click to expand...

It's seemingly the binary nature of everything nowadays. Pick a side, be it sport, politics, religion and then defend it with all your gusto. No knowledge required other than the other sides are subhuman scum. Just the other day I heard a cubist describe the pre-raphaelite brotherhood as treasonous wankers. So I lamped the fucker.
 
Reactions: SBAndy, shmmeee, Captain Dart and 1 other person

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,186
Deleted member 5849 said:
With top bantz like remoaners, it's no surprise.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't call it bantz, more along the lines of annoying moaners that can't get their own way
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,187
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Wouldn't call it bantz, more along the lines of annoying moaners that can't get their own way
Click to expand...
Well at the moment that's the extremist righties, upset that vacuous statements such as Brexit means Brexit are utterly pointless, and worried that their bizarre crusade to thumb a nose at those slightly iffy foreigners across the chanel may not actually happen.

They seem surprised that, after demanding parliament reclaims its power, that parliament doesn't agree with their mentalist vision of the future. They seem surprised that democracy involves finding a ground that more than a minority believe in, a ground that more than a minority will benefit from. They seem amazed that, when throwing away stupid lines like remoaners, they meet an equal and opposite response.

They are the simple, the stupid, the mad. God help us if this flaccid minority ever takes over.
 
Reactions: Grappa, skybluetony176, Otis and 2 others
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,188
SkyBlueDom26 said:
God help us if he was to ever become PM
Click to expand...

I don’t think he will. His failure to commit to a people’s vote in a definitive way is prolonging the agony. The opportunity is there to unite most of the Labour Party and the opposition, including maybe Tory defectors behind a people’s vote. UKIP has become a right wing islamophobe party, and Farage has become an embarrassment for leave with his poorly planned and executed „march“. It is a metaphore of his „Brexit“. Far from showing why we should Brexit, it shows the lunacy of following populists. The ERG is another embarrassment for many responsible Tories. Someone else in labour will probably take the reins IMO.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,189
martcov said:
I don’t think he will. His failure to commit to a people’s vote in a definitive way is prolonging the agony. The opportunity is there to unite most of the Labour Party and the opposition, including maybe Tory defectors behind a people’s vote. UKIP has become a right wing islamophobe party, and Farage has become an embarrassment for leave with his poorly planned and executed „march“. It is a metaphore of his „Brexit“. Far from showing why we should Brexit, it shows the lunacy of following populists. The ERG is another embarrassment for many responsible Tories. Someone else in labour will probably take the reins IMO.
Click to expand...
Jezza wants to leave the EU
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,190
martcov said:
I don’t think he will. His failure to commit to a people’s vote in a definitive way is prolonging the agony. The opportunity is there to unite most of the Labour Party and the opposition, including maybe Tory defectors behind a people’s vote. UKIP has become a right wing islamophobe party, and Farage has become an embarrassment for leave with his poorly planned and executed „march“. It is a metaphore of his „Brexit“. Far from showing why we should Brexit, it shows the lunacy of following populists. The ERG is another embarrassment for many responsible Tories. Someone else in labour will probably take the reins IMO.
Click to expand...
Many of these "responsible" Tories are inevitably going not to make it through the next general election as their local associations don't reselect them.

UKIP has gone. Disappeared at last election as it was a single issue group and subsequent move to a far right party has seen its support collapse. Even if Brexit were threatened unlikely UKIP could reinvent itself to become the vehicle for people to rally around.
As a country we don't support the far right. Likes of BNP and NF garner next to no support. In proportionate terms UK far right always been behind European counterparts. Likes of FN, AFD, Jobbik etc would never take any level of support in UK.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,191
tisza said:
Many of these "responsible" Tories are inevitably going not to make it through the next general election as their local associations don't reselect them.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I find this a very insidious movement in both parties. If an MP was popular enough to be elected, they ought to be allowed the opportunity to defend their seat, at least, unless they've gone full-on mental and/or illegal.

Not having identical views across each party is what keeps the debate healthy, and ensures parliament isn't utterly meaningless other than for automatically passing the government of the day's laws.
 
Reactions: martcov and shmmeee

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,192
martcov said:
I don’t think he will. His failure to commit to a people’s vote in a definitive way is prolonging the agony. The opportunity is there to unite most of the Labour Party and the opposition, including maybe Tory defectors behind a people’s vote. UKIP has become a right wing islamophobe party, and Farage has become an embarrassment for leave with his poorly planned and executed „march“. It is a metaphore of his „Brexit“. Far from showing why we should Brexit, it shows the lunacy of following populists. The ERG is another embarrassment for many responsible Tories. Someone else in labour will probably take the reins IMO.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep saying peoples vote? Perhaps you’d like to explain why the Lib Dem’s did yet failed so badly in the last election - most labour MPs are against this
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,193
Grendel said:
Why do you keep saying peoples vote? Perhaps you’d like to explain why the Lib Dem’s did yet failed so badly in the last election - most labour MPs are against this
Click to expand...
same principle - if it's about free votes why are Labour threatening to enforce the whip on a 2nd referendum.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,194
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Wouldn't call it bantz, more along the lines of annoying moaners that can't get their own way
Click to expand...

Sounds like the Brexit crowd to me.
 
Reactions: martcov

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,195
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well at the moment that's the extremist righties, upset that vacuous statements such as Brexit means Brexit are utterly pointless, and worried that their bizarre crusade to thumb a nose at those slightly iffy foreigners across the chanel may not actually happen.

They seem surprised that, after demanding parliament reclaims its power, that parliament doesn't agree with their mentalist vision of the future. They seem surprised that democracy involves finding a ground that more than a minority believe in, a ground that more than a minority will benefit from. They seem amazed that, when throwing away stupid lines like remoaners, they meet an equal and opposite response.

They are the simple, the stupid, the mad. God help us if this flaccid minority ever takes over.
Click to expand...

 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,196
Deleted member 5849 said:
FWIW, I find this a very insidious movement in both parties. If an MP was popular enough to be elected, they ought to be allowed the opportunity to defend their seat, at least, unless they've gone full-on mental and/or illegal.

Not having identical views across each party is what keeps the debate healthy, and ensures parliament isn't utterly meaningless other than for automatically passing the government of the day's laws.
Click to expand...
problem with this is, Brexit aside, too few politicians will break the whip on other big issues. perhaps the key is to abolish the respective whip offices.
Whatever the wrongs of the former coalition govt (lib dem one) one of the few benefits was to keep many controversial Tory policies from getting through.

As far as MP reselection if they said they would support/oppose Brexit fair enough but if they told constituents pre-selection & election they would follow respective manifestoes then they should have to answer to constituents.

Also as far as insidious goes it's time to remove/reform the undemocratic House of Lords.
 
Reactions: Grappa
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,197
Remember this? I voted leave btw no second referendum or extension we leave on 29th of this month,Why can’t remoaners get their heads round it?
No deal please
 

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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,198
Astute said:
But here is the problem I have.

I need us to stay in the EU. But I respected the result. I wasn't a part of the side who won the referendum. Just like each time the Tories get voted in.

A precedent would be set. If we get a vote on anything they fuck about for a few years without implementing what we have voted for so they get the chance to get the result they wanted first time.

I think my preferred ending to this would be for us to leave the EU but for close ties to remain that are as close as possible to what we have now. But even this isn't a good result for anyone. It just seems the best compromise.
Click to expand...

Then surely we’d end up in a weaker position to where we are now? We’d lose our influence yet still be closely tied to the EU. Unless you can elaborate on these close ties?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,199
westcountry_skyblue said:
Remember this? I voted leave btw no second referendum or extension we leave on 29th of this month,Why can’t remoaners get their heads round it?
No deal please
Click to expand...

Errr...no we won’t leave on the 29th.

There was also no talk of no deal in the run up to the referendum
 
Reactions: Otis
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,200
Sick Boy said:
Errr...no we won’t leave on the 29th.

There was also no talk of no deal in the run up to the referendum
Click to expand...
So what do you think will happen,There is 3 countries that will vote against an extension.
Poland,Hungary and Italy it only needs one of those!!
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,201
westcountry_skyblue said:
So what do you think will happen,There is 3 countries that will vote against an extension.
Poland,Hungary and Italy it only needs one of those!!
Click to expand...

There is minimal chance of Poland or Hungary going for it and you’re off your heard if you genuinely believe Italy is about to veto it.

There’s zero talk over here in Italy of anything like that happening, not even Salvini would do something so stupid.

I think there will be a long extension followed by a GE or a cross party plan. I still think the EEA could happen.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,202
Grendel said:
Perhaps you’d like to explain why the Lib Dem’s did yet failed so badly in the last election
Click to expand...
This is a flawed argument. Most MPs across countless parliaments have been all for staying in the EU. Even if we discount the last election as honouring the referendum result, then how about the one before the referendum? The one before that? Are we saying people voted in pro-EU MPs because they were pro EU? If so, why is a referendum democracy, but those numerous votes aren't?

General Elections, of course, are on more than one policy. The Lib Dems have still not (will they ever?) regained trust for falling in with the Tories and betraying many of their voters.

But you knew that.
 
Reactions: martcov and westcountry_skyblue
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,203
tisza said:
Also as far as insidious goes it's time to remove/reform the undemocratic House of Lords.
Click to expand...
Agree entirely. Frankly it makes a mockery of 'taking back control', and also democracy, when our upper chamber and head of state are totally unelected.
 
Reactions: martcov and Sick Boy
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,204
westcountry_skyblue said:
remoaners
Click to expand...

#bantzzz
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,205
westcountry_skyblue said:
So what do you think will happen,There is 3 countries that will vote against an extension.
Poland,Hungary and Italy it only needs one of those!!
Click to expand...
Hungary won't (i'm here atm)
 
Reactions: Astute and martcov
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,206
Of course, even if a country vetoed an extension, we can still cancel Article 50...
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,207
Deleted member 5849 said:
This is a flawed argument. Most MPs across countless parliaments have been all for staying in the EU. Even if we discount the last election as honouring the referendum result, then how about the one before the referendum? The one before that? Are we saying people voted in pro-EU MPs because they were pro EU? If so, why is a referendum democracy, but those numerous votes aren't?

General Elections, of course, are on more than one policy. The Lib Dems have still not (will they ever?) regained trust for falling in with the Tories and betraying many of their voters.

But you knew that.
Click to expand...
Didn't the two main parties say in their manifesto's they'd respect the vote?Fcuking snakes!!!
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,208
there won't be a solitary veto - it would only happen if one of the mini-blocks like Visegrad voted as a group.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,209
westcountry_skyblue said:
Didn't the two main parties say in their manifesto's they'd respect the vote?Fcuking snakes!!!
Click to expand...
what they said they would respect the vote but didn't say how they'd do it.
Even now Corbyn trying to rally support for a Norway agreement. So still wants to go just not in the same way other factions do.
 
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,210
I think we will leave with no deal which I want they've had enough time 3 years to get a decent deal.
Be interesting to see if a week on Friday at 22.30 and nothing is sorted,The BBC will be having kittens!!!:happy:
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,211
tisza said:
what they said they would respect the vote but didn't say how they'd do it.
Even now Corbyn trying to rally support for a Norway agreement. So still wants to go just not in the same way other factions do.
Click to expand...
Quite frankly, the idiocy was rushing off straight after the vote. What they should have done (IMNSHO!) is said they respected the vote as the view of the people, and used it to speak to the EU about concerns. Some could have been sorted automatically (immigration etc. We just don't do as much as we can to stop it anyway. We don't use the powers we have inside the EU!), and the negotiating hand of a lost referendum may have helped get some concessions from the EU. If it didn't... then opinion would have hardened against it as an entity, anyway. We could also have discussed what would happen on the event of us leaving.

Then we could have had a binding referendum on the back of those talks, when we had informed views on what the options actually *were*.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2019
Reactions: Grappa, martcov and Sick Boy
W

westcountry_skyblue

Guest
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,212
tisza said:
there won't be a solitary veto - it would only happen if one of the mini-blocks like Visegrad voted as a group.
Click to expand...
Probably because they want our money!!!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,213
westcountry_skyblue said:
Remember this? I voted leave btw no second referendum or extension we leave on 29th of this month,Why can’t remoaners get their heads round it?
No deal please
Click to expand...

Can’t see No Deal anywhere on that mate. Did you upload the wrong pic?
 
Reactions: skybluetony176, martcov and Sick Boy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,214
westcountry_skyblue said:
I think we will leave with no deal which I want they've had enough time 3 years to get a decent deal.
Be interesting to see if a week on Friday at 22.30 and nothing is sorted,The BBC will be having kittens!!!:happy:
Click to expand...

Why do you want no deal?

Wasn’t the whole point of Brexit to allow us to be a global trading nation? But we don’t want a trade deal with our closest and largest market?

I’m gonna say it: you’ve no idea what you’re asking for and just saying whatever your hedge fund masters tell you to want. There was no talk whatsoever of no deal before the result, only since chancers like JRM and Farage who stand to make buckets off the turmoil piped up has anyone been on about it.

Do you also stand to make a mint from the collapse of the UK as an economic power?
 
Reactions: Grappa, skybluetony176 and martcov

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 19, 2019
  • #33,215
westcountry_skyblue said:
Probably because they want our money!!!
Click to expand...

Yes! And we want their trade! It’s a symbiotic relationship. What do you think every single country we go into trade negotiations wants? Our love and respect!?!?
 
Reactions: Grappa and martcov
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